Now Six Flags "hates poor people?"

It seems the primary argument in this thread boils down to this: Cedar Flags undervalues their product, therefore they charge less than they should for tickets, which leads to overcrowding and poor customer service.

I don’t think this is true, at least regarding value.

Value is subjective. As enthusiasts, park-going is literally our hobby and we are likely willing to pay more (perhaps significantly) than the typical guest. We overvalue the experience, and what we are willing to pay doesn’t really matter. What does matter is the price (i.e., value) the market will bear. Guests paid $6 to enter Kings Island in 1972, which is $46.30 today. According to KI’s website, daily tickets start “as low as $45.” As several people have pointed out, amusement parks compete with other forms of entertainment. If that’s true (and I think it is), you could argue that due to competition, KI ticket prices should be even lower than they are. Yes, it is easier to get to the park, so maybe you could argue for higher prices resulting from potentially higher demand, but it all probably comes out in the wash in the end. Ticket prices at KI seem to be in the right ballpark (where you will never find me, because I see no value in sporting events).

Setting prices also requires something enthusiasts simply don’t have: data. Assuming Cedar Flags executives have any sense at all, they are using the massive amount of data they have to determine what to charge. Apparently, their analysis indicates that more revenue can be generated through season pass sales and add-ons, rather than more expensive daily tickets. Is this true? I don’t know, but like everyone else on this site, I don’t have the information needed to say either way. But the higher ups at Cedar Flags do.

I don't think this has anything to do with enthusiasts. The argument is generally not about single-day tickets, it's about pass sales. Twenty years ago, I paid more than $99 for a season pass, which is $60 in 2005 dollars. Pretty sure I paid twice that then. Per capita spending across Cedar Fair in 2005 was $38.71, or $65.10 in today's dollars. Cedar Flags reported per cap of $61.60 for last year.

As far as competition goes, your "per cap" spending on a movie is probably near $40 with popcorn and beverages, for under two hours of entertainment. You can't see a concert anymore for under a hundred, again about two hours. Themed bowling, $40 at least for rolls and food. Live theater starts at $60 for the ticket alone, and orchestra seats tend to start at $150. An amusement park is 12 hours with rides that don't exist in any other context, plus live entertainment, characters meets, nighttime shows, etc. The current pricing is a stupid-good value relative to all that other stuff, and it makes no sense that they practically give it away.

I'm thinking today of an analogy to the news industry. It feels like the regional parks went down the road of cheap passes + upsells and having gone down that road they can't get back - even though other, smaller parks (e.g. Waldameer, Quassy) have been able to hold the line on pricing. But if Six Flags tried to go to a $200 pass (which seems in the right ballpark to me, as far as value) I suspect their sales would crater. Or at least, they're afraid their sales would crater.

The news industry analogy is that everyone was giving away content in the early days of internet news, and while they succeeded in convincing people they didn't need to buy dead trees, most of them never succeeded in charging for their internet editions. So now we have a few giants that have transitioned to an online subscription model (NY Times, Washington Post until Bezos went ape, Wall St Journal) - these are the Disney and Universal of the news industry. And a bunch of papers that are shadows of themselves, or that give you a fraction of the content until you hit a paywall, or both (Cleveland.com) - the Six Flagses of the news industry.

There are doubtless a million problems with this analogy, so don't @ me too hard - I'm just playing with it today.

Jeff:

The current pricing is a stupid-good value relative to all that other stuff, and it makes no sense that they practically give it away.

I agree with this.

On the other hand, if it were really seen that way by folks in general (as opposed to enthusiasts) they'd be beating down the gates to get in. And they are not.

To paraphrase Bill Parcells: You are what your attendance says you are.

You're right, and I think it's because there's a cycle that's hard to break out of. Going cheap makes the experience crappier by way of nickel-and-dime upsells, less incentive to behave because it was so cheap, etc. Crappier experience means less willingness to pay more. And for all the "it's too expensive" directed at Universal and Disney, they seem to be doing OK charging a lot and keeping their numbers up.

Of course they can't go from a $60 pass to a $200 pass in one sudden move and without even enhancing the experience. But they aren't even trying to increase the price incrementally.Since 2020, there has been huge inflation and not only did they cut prices to $99 around that time, they have kept it in the subsequent years. And now they're going to sell all the parks for $99 and eliminate a whole hight pricing tier? These guys insane! If my goal was to ruin a company, this is the playbook I'd follow.

I don't think they are insane, but certainly focused on short-term year over year, and not long term. The one thing they have been able to do is get people to spend more on pass add-ons, a category of revenue that did not exist in 2005. To these guys, this still counts as raising the price on season passes.

That's true, but in aggregate, taking into account, admission and all spending (either pass add ons or ad hoc in the park) they are getting less out of each guest on an inflation adjusted basis since then. That is a big problem when you are sitting on over 4 billion dollars of debt and their costs have gone up and up in terms of both labor and goods.

They dont seem to give a crap about the customer experience. Just selling a ton of cheap passes and getting butts thru the turnstiles. They have absolutely conditioned guests to ‘pay cheap prices, get cheap, no frills service’. Like certain Airlines have done

They couldn’t raise prices overnight even if they wanted to. Nobody would show up anymore for $250 season passes.

Don Helbig just posted this on Facebook:

To celebrate the one-year anniversary of the merger between Six Flags and Cedar Fair, Kings Dominion announced an unprecedented new benefit tied to its 2026 season pass: unlimited admission to more than 40 Six Flags Entertainment Corporation parks for the remainder of 2025 and all of 2026. This limited-time anniversary offer will roll out at every park in the chain starting next week, marking a major milestone for North America’s largest regional amusement-resort operator.

I have been less negative about their pricing policies than many people here. But this one doesn't make sense to me. Don't expect the 40+ park availability will mean much to the vast majority of people in reality (though it may have some marketing benefit).

...and so maybe that's fine? If it sells a few more passes for "aspirational visits", but most people never use it at a non-home park, that seems...okay?

(I am reaching here, I admit it.)

But at least we now know: Six Flags does not hate poor people.

Maybe. Would think though that offering 40+ parks presents an opportunity to up the price at least somewhat for the 40+ park option? Maybe they do not think so.

It may well be the case that increasing the price of passes and upgrading the experience (thinning the herd/crowds, hiring more staff, etc) wouldn't result in increased profits (in the near term or over the long haul). Disney/Universal have a lot more profit centers than regional parks (merchandising and resorts for instance). Their revenue producing assets do so year round. Full year employees are easier to retain and often have better attitudes than seasonal workers. Isn't necessarily as easy as increase prices, better the experience and profits increase.

I’m curious to see data how customers feel about paying $5-6 for a bottle of soda/water/Gatorade or other in-park items in a change for dirt cheap passes? Personally, I’m in the psychological camp of paying $100+ for a pass with more reasonable in-park expenses like $3-4 for a soda/water/Gatorade. Knowing the in-park prices, I tend to eat before and/or after a trip as well as bring a beverage with me given they don’t prevent you from bringing it in the park with you.

From my casual observation, I see a lot of people buying the $20 drink passes (or the seasons drink passes). At that point, the price point for drinks doesn't mean as much. And for some people, presumably paying $5-6/drink isn't an issue (similar prices at sporting events, movies, etc) and they often make one trip a year.

I am going to guess that a fair number of those passholders also spring for the season drink package. I don't drink most sodas, and even I bought it, because the sparkling water with lime (er, lime flavor) at the Freestyle machines is refreshing on a hot day.

Plus, the pass is already $100 (well, Canadian dollars at Wonderland, but still). What do you actually want them to do? Or do you mean pay an extra $100 on top?

We get one all-season drinking plan for the 4 of us. I think it's like $34? Something like that. A new drink every 15 minutes. None of us really drink any pop/soda; The freestyle machines are best.

Holiday World charges $165 for their pass that blocks Saturdays. $200 without the blocks, but gaining a 10% discount on food and merch. Parking, sunscreen, soda are "free." As best I can tell, they've never had any issue filling that park. And there are no other parks, that's for one park. Any-day tickets are $72 online. Just putting that out there.

Right after Cedar Fair grabbed the Paramount parks in 2007 this was the pass pricing.

2007 Maxx Pass - $125 / With Inflation Today $194

Oh, you wanted the 10% off on some places in the park? That's an extra $15 on the pass.

2007 - $140 / With Inflation Today $218

Oh, you want to park your car? But only at Cedar Point, not everywhere. that's $50.

2007 - $190 / With Inflation $296

Oh, you want to go to soak city? $24

2007 - $214 / With Inflation $333

So, what are they charging nowadays for the passes? It looks lie 125/165, but the perks don't exactly line up so it's not a direct comparison, but it still feels like they haven't even kept up with inflation. Additionally, you get more parks, but that's sort of a moot point since most passholders stay close to their home park. Unless you live in CA, or DC, or loosely PA/NJ. Those folks do see extra value then.

But, what is the actual gate price and pass price they are seeing, over in the fastlane thread I put a quick chart of what they would need to charge at the gate if they stopped selling fast lane to see the same revenue. Depending on the attach rates it could be double. Which looked at through a different lens, they are effectively charging the higher price depending on what the attach rates are. So the gate might be priced at $50, but essentially everyone is paying $100 because of the fastlane sales. Same would apply to passes, how many all season fastlanes are sold and what does that do to the effective pass prices?

So who’s down to try and hit up all 40 parks in a year? Try and take full advantage of the discount.