Now Six Flags "hates poor people?"

I just don't understand why they didn't take the opportunity with expanding access to 40+ parks next year, to do so with the cheapest $99 pass but only through Labor Day and no free parking, and up-sell from there. The next tier could include fall events and free parking or whatever, another tier includes early entry and discounts, and on and on to a premium tier where you get preferred parking, VIP stuff, etc.

I'd understand offering a basic $99 pass, since there's the draw for day visitors to upgrade their ticket to a pass (that they may not even use) for "a few bucks more", but to give so much at that price point seems absurd to me.

this current offer at Canada’s Wonderland for a $99 CD all parks pass works out to $75 US. With meals and drinks that works out to about $262 US If the American parks have the same offer, it will be about $350 US

If I understand correctly, the meal and drinks plans are going to work at all the parks next year not just Legacy parks

This company continues to miss reasonable opportunities to increase revenue when selling season passes.

when Winterfest was added, they gave it away. Instead of adding a slight op charge to the season pass, which would’ve helped fund the event and made it more profitable.

now they have the opportunity to up charge to add every part in the nation, and they are giving it away.

Once they give away something it’s about impossible to start charging for it When Six Flags tried to take away the (unprofitable) meal plans a few years ago they attendance plummeted

both examples above they could’ve easily added an upsell to the season pass because it is something new and it would’ve seemed reasonable to customers.

but instead they’re continuing to double down on the philosophy of giving away everything to season passholders (who I don’t believe spend that much per visit, especially with the meal plans) then highly overcharge for everything else for the one time buyer. It’s just a bad formula.

I think I posted this before, but will reiterate: I don't see any problem with giving away all parks. It literally costs the company nothing, because a guest can only be in one park at a time. Does it really matter which park they're actually in (aside from price price differences like this CW exchange rate thing or MI folks hitting up CP)?

Also, guests visiting away parks are more likely to spend on merch, so methinks they actually wind up a bit ahead with giving away all parks perk.

You all are glossing over the most important part: prior to this, if you wanted access to two parks in your region (Dorney and Great Adventure, Knotts & Magic Mountain, Carowinds and SFOG…), you’d need two season passes. This all-access approach cannibalizes revenue. In many markets, they’d have to sell double the units to make up for earning half the revenue. That just isnt going to happen in this economy or with this level of brand affinity.

Fun:

they’d have to sell double the units to make up for earning half the revenue

Fun:

Knotts & Magic Mountain,

Have you ever actually been in Los Angeles? My son lives near Santa Monica. Knotts and DLR may as well be on the other side of the planet, because he is not going to drive through that traffic to get there, and neither will most other Angelenos. Maybe one is close, but if it is, the other is not. My ex offered to buy him a DLR Key, and he turned her down. If he goes to a park, it is Universal.

I stayed across from California Adventure the one time I was in LA. Drive to Knott’s wasn’t terrible from what I recall. But Fun was talking about Magic Mountain, not DLR, which I can’t speak to as I only visited Knott’s. That said, if I had the time during my trip, I almost certainly would have hit Magic Mountain as well…especially if I had a Six Flags season pass good for both parks.

If you mean DCA, Knotts is just down the road; DLR and KBF are very close to each other. But SFMM and USH are through traffic hell from there.

This seems oddly timely, doesn't it? 🙄

The High Cost of a Cheap Ticket

Just further proof that the good folks here know their ****.

Brian Noble:

Knotts is just down the road

So is Knoebels.

"Cheap passes bring in more guests, yes. But they don’t always bring in the right kind of guest." - Dennis Speigel

Quite often my conversations are with parents about things like amusement parks, summer vacations, movies, music events, pop culture, etc. Folks like to share their experience going to Disney/Universal, amusement parks, etc. and it is fairly consistent in what I am hearing: "ya the cost of a Florida trip is insanely expensive but the kids love it, they will have a great memory, and we had a good time so it was worth it" and/or "ya going to XYZ amusement park is relatively inexpensive to get in but the rides are always breaking down, it's way to hot/humid to stand in long-lines, the beverage/food costs are ridiculous, etc."

What is the difference here? Rides break down at Disney/Universal, it's INSANELY hot/humid in FL, the food costs are just as expensive, lines can be long regardless the queue line type one uses, etc. To me, the difference is PERCEPTION. It's a psychological game with the consumer. As Dennis pointed out in his published article, companies like Disney/Apple/Delta/Neiman Marcus/etc. have all created a brand identity that says "paying a premium has it's benefits and you will EXPERIENCE it." It's the same thing Matt Ouimet was doing when he created the "FUN Forward" strategy which put an emphasis on the entire park experience, from the first impression at tolls/main gate, to daytime parades with Peanuts (still an undervalued business opportunity I might add!), a focus on accommodations/food/beverage quality, to the "kiss goodnight" at the end of the day. Along with that, and just as important, was the EMPLOYEE CULTURE that valued park managers to own their business and do what was right through smart business skills.

Six Flags Entertainment Co. has absolutely decimated the employee culture at this point, being so bad that the few folks who are still hanging on are looking for a way out. If you search "Six Flags" under Google news it links to news stories about parks closing and what park(s) might be next and there has been ZERO effort to fix this PR problem all summer. Maintenance budgets for keeping parts in-stock have been slashed and preventative maintenance is being delayed, thus causing unnecessary downtime. As climate-change continues to take hold, no effort has been made to provide greater "comfort" in queuing to battle the heat/humidity/sun. At legacy CF parks people are posting about the downgrade in some food quality at the expense of trying to bring up the food experience at legacy SF parks. And now of course, we have insanely cheap season passes about to launch, doubling-down on what legacy SF parks did for so long and was a failing strategy that created decades of problems leading us to where we are today.

GREAT leadership knows they don't have to spend tens-of-millions of dollars every year with a "new shiny object" to get the consumer to buy. It's about perception, consistency, and the experience. Utilizing what you already have and make it memorable with "tweaks" now and then. Most importantly, empower your people who are walking-the-walk in the parks every day and not sitting in a sterile corporate office in the inner burbs of a city, completely unconnected to your business. The saddest part of all this is Zimmerman, Fisher, Bassoul, and others know better, they aren't incompetent, yet they purposely CHOOSE not to do better. For this reason they need to go.

It's a lot more than perception. Regional parks can't build a Guardians or Potter ride. The regionals do not operate at the level of Orlando. It's not then close.

I'm often skeptical of Spiegel, but he's right on in that piece. And the gate integrity club, Holiday World, Hershey and Dollywood, are pretty great case studies.

Eh, the regional typically do not build rides at that scale, but, on occasion they do. Primordial comes to mind, some of the Europa Park rides, Phantasialand, and there are a couple more that I've ridden that I go wow, this is crazy for a small park. But typically they do not.

Being a smaller player in the market doesn't prevent you from creating a really cool experience. Maybe you can't afford an entire land, but you do have the ability to make a really immersive ride. This just depends on where your priorities lie.

Sounds like there are a few more of these to come. The Six Flags America hours for post-Labor Day have disappeared from the calendar. I wonder if we will see a lot of shorter seasons.

If they just closed year round, operational costs would drop to zero.

Christmas event cancellations rolling out.

I feel like I'm living in bizarro-world here, reading about all these cuts, changes and bad experiences at other SF parks, while KI here is carrying along like a machine, as if nothing's happened. Enthusiastic employees, killer operations, decent food, no unnecessary closures... I've been going "all in" for the past 4 years and nothing about 2025 is any worse than before. Hell, I was here last month when they reopened Soak City at 6:15pm (normally closes at 7) after 2 hours of storms chased most everyone out of the park. Zen Tidal Wave Bay is pretty cool.

Little things, like setting sprinklers to spray on the walkways in a couple areas during scorchers like today, people notice that.

Now they release fall/winter schedules, and instead of cuts, KI gets even more open days in October, adding Thursdays to the existing F/S/S schedule.

Thing is, what I see here is this place is almost always busy. I'd love to see 2025 attendance figures; wouldn't be surprised to see KI nipping at CP/CWs heels. There's a huge army of locals that support the park, and so far CF/SF hasn't screwed things up to drive people away. If they could only figure out how to bottle up whatever is working here and pour it on their other parks... it's not like Cincy is some mecca of big spenders, they should be able to make this work in any decent metro area.

Lord Gonchar:

Just further proof that the good folks here know their ****.

So why don't the SF and CF execs know theirs?

Businesses don't reduce costs just to reduce costs. Closing year round would reduce revenues to zero as well. That doesn't maximize profits.

I have seen people online saying they love a given time of year at a given park because crowds are light and then can ride/do everything they want. Good chance going forward that is a time period/park that will see reduced hours or be closed.

Different metro areas are different. Size alone isn't the only factor. Cleveland, Columbus and Cincy are very different markets in my work world. Expect there are significant differences across the chain which mean that what works in one won't work in all.

Rising pass prices will reduce the number of people who buy (its just basic economics). Maybe they weren't the "right kind of guest" so it won't matter. But it isn't necessarily the case that there will be enough people finding value in the higher price (even with "bettering the experience" with any increased costs that come along with that) to maximize profits (in the short or long run). If everyone in the world felt the same about amusement parks as people here, probably. But that isn't the case. And given the reduced number of people regularly posting on this site over the years, maybe the interest in the industry is changing.

As we have discussed, there are a lot of other entertainment/vacation options available that weren't available/weren't as popular a couple decades ago. Talked to our summer kids at an event this week. Their last week. Asked if they were doing anything interesting before going back to school in a few weeks. Back when I was a summer kid, we worked as long as we could to make money. But now summer programs are shorter. Kids were traveling (one to Alaska and several others to Europe). I felt lucky if I could go to Cedar Point on a Saturday before heading back to school. Its very much a different world in terms of experiences/expectations.

Just further proof that the good folks here know their ****.

May just be proof that many here have the same perspective as the writer of the opinion piece.

It's not just agreement though. The author gave living examples, and they're the same examples folks here have given. One may argue about higher prices reducing attendance, but that's without consideration of product quality and the resulting value.