Now Six Flags "hates poor people?"

You know how we're always suggesting that the Six Flags parks grossly undervalue their gate? Check out this letter to the Cincy Enquirer.

Once again, corporate America has ruined a family outing for all and has priced inner-city kids and regular middle-class people out of the park. After reading this, it's clear that Kings Island played a significant role in the demise of the Coney Island amusement park, pool, and water park. You do know that charging $1,000 on your credit card for Kings Island still has to be paid?

Just goes to show that the "sliding scale" includes a lot of tolerance levels for pricing.

I am not sure the guy using two defunct businesses as examples of how things should be works for his argument. Also, what happened for people to feel like Fast Lane has to be mandatory? It wouldn't work very well if everyone used it.

I find it fascinating that outside of Disney and Universal, there seems to be a real problem with amusement parks becoming more expensive over time. I still find it astonishing that my season pass for my local park is the same price now that it was 20+ years ago, despite incredible cost pressures and investment.

For some, amusement parks have to be 'cheap' vs. other forms of entertainment and even $45 to visit KI tomorrow still doesn't feel expensive to me, but I guess that is subjective.

I figure it might be because there isn't really anything tangible about a visit to the park, it is very much what you make it and you don't feel like you definitely get anything by going - you can pay $50 and ride everything, or pay the same amount and do 3 things all day.

I tell you what is more expensive than going to Six Flags ... owning stock in them.

Disney, Universal and the other destination parks have captured the upscale market. People who could afford to pay more to visit their local parks are going to the destination parks. Or on other vacations now (cruises, trips to Europe/Asia/South America, ski trips, etc.). Local parks are competing for entertainment dollars amongst people who have less of it to spend.

My wife talks about how her dad (on the ride home after their annual visit to Cedar Point about 30-40 years ago) added up the cost of everything he paid during the day and declared CP to be a ripoff and he never went back. With any price increase, you will likely lose some people. Park did fine without him over the past 30-40 years.

I just don't think people know how much anything actually costs. I often read how expensive Kennywood is and that people should go to Waldameer instead. Waldameeer's cheapest all day ticket is $40. Kennywood's cheapest ticket is... $39.99.

Kings Island when accounting for inflation is actually more affordable than it was in 1990.

Now that I really think about it, it's this sentiment that has lead to the en****tification of amusement parks.

Agree, and when you adjust for inflation, in terms of admission and passes, the regional parks have never been a better deal. The perception of value is kinda messed up on both sides of the transactions. Not only that, but I don't think people understand the way things are different. McDonald's and a Michelin Star restaurant don't offer the same thing. Carnival may offer a "poop cruise," but Disney does not.

If Kings Island was that overpriced, how would that have caused the demise of Coney Island 2.0? If KI was too expensive and not worth the cost, wouldn't everyone have flocked to Coney Island 2.0, keeping them in business?

I dont know any business that likes poor people? A business wants to make money. Always.

We’re having this discussion right now in regard to our upcoming Ohio State Fair. I work there, but I’m not an official, so my observations are strictly anecdotal. We visit state fairs around the country (weird hobby, I know) and find admission to be anywhere from 15 bucks to 20 depending on the fair. Let’s take a look at a few of what many consider to be top-tier fairs. Minnesota is 20 bucks this year. Iowa is 16. Texas has dynamic pricing depending on the day, with some days being as high as 25. Parking is expensive and they discourage a lot of cars, suggesting public transportation. Rides are on top of that, usually 25-30 bucks for a wristband. Ohio? Admission is 8 bucks, advance, 3 days for 20. There’s a $6.14 day (Our area code- so clever, right?) Thursday is 3 dollars food items. Special days include seniors for free, bring a can for bogo, etc. And what do people around here do? Complain. Every year there’s a news story about “What you’ll pay to take your family of four to the fair this year” and then come the comments. “It costed me a hunnert dollars fer us all to go to the damn fair”. Our fairgrounds/expo center is nice, it’s multi-use and is busy year round, and there’s a lot of exciting construction going on for improvements, but the fair itself seems to struggle financially. Premiums for entries are low and as a result entries are down. Essential fair staffing has been cut and things are a mess. I can’t be the only one to think that a raise in prices should be in order to protect the business, but for some reason they hang on to the notion that high attendance at a low rate is better than fewer bodies at a rate that would cover costs.
I bet this Cincinnati letter writer shops at Kroger. Do they blame “corporate America” for the price of groceries? Maybe. But they pay what they have to because they need to eat. As a retiree I’m forced to pick and choose the activities that mean the most to me, and that’s fine. There are a lot of things I’d like to do but can’t afford right now. The older and crankier I get the more I want to scream out a window “shut up or stay the hell home”. Trips to places like Disney, a regional amusement park, or the local fair are somehow viewed as entitlements and that’s a mindset that’s hard to break people of.

RCMAC:

Trips to places like Disney, a regional amusement park, or the local fair are somehow viewed as entitlements and that’s a mindset that’s hard to break people of.

And there lies the major problem.
A consumer either personally gets value out of something or they do not.

I think I’m going to write a letter to GM because I’ve been priced out of a corvette Stingray 2LT

I guess it depends on ones definition of "poor."

The Six Flags/Cedar Fair parks offer affordable monthly installments for their season passes. You don't need to charge your credit card. You don't need to come up with hundreds-of-dollars all at once to buy a season pass. You pay between $12 and $50 a month (estimated from memory). Affordable for almost anyone.

I used to have to pay for a season pass in installments. These days, I usually just buy it outright. I didn't get one this year though because I didn't use the one I had last year.

Six Flags season passes are underpriced IF one goes to the parks 10 or so times a year. But many people don’t want to go that much so a season pass would still be very expensive.

With the pass they give away the gate, food and drink to people who want to come often. They also give away the special events such as Winterfest, which should’ve been some kind of up charge to the season pass when it was added

But those people still have to pay for travel and sometimes for lodging when they go. So the price of the season pass isn’t the only expense. For many people a season pass is not practical or a good bargain because they won’t use it enough and they have to pay to get there or for lodging every time they go

For the person that wants to go just for one day it is VERY expensive. They gouge for everything to make up for the low season pass prices. They gouge for parking, they gouge for meals they gouge for drinks and anything else that is purchased at the park Add to that now they gouge for fast passes if you don’t wanna wait in a long line if the park is busy

in my opinion, it’s an awful business plan. Giving away everything to season passholders and then trying to make it up with the one time guests. The season passholders don’t bring that much profit. It used to be the whole reason for season passes was to get people to buy meals, etc. every time they came

And the one time guests leave with a bad feeling of not receiving a good value

Based on what I'm reading here, it's almost as if a certain segement of customers in all markets - upscale, midrange, downmarket; local, regional, national - are vocal about their perceived lack of value in said purchase/endeavor.

I believe this all falls under both:

1. You can't please everyone
2. Vocal minority.

You can dig into that as deeply as you'd like.

super7*:

For the person that wants to go just for one day it is VERY expensive. They gouge for everything...

I don't follow. Yes, the passholder gets a better per-day ticket price, but doesn't everyone more or less pay the same for everything else?

No. The people on dining plans and drink plans use them until they’re only paying a few dollars per meal.

To make up for it they charge $20 for a small portion meal these days to regular guests.

The season passholder is also not paying for parking. I’m not sure what the Six Flags parks are charging but I know Busch Gardens Williamsburg is now charging $35 just to park.

On average the season passholder is probably paying about $20 a visit where the one time visitor is paying $40-$50 over double.

For a non-passholder to go for one day it’s going to be over $100 if one eats there twice and gets drinks. That’s still a lot of money to many people

The_Orient_of_Express:

I dont know any business that likes poor people? A business wants to make money. Always.

LostKause:
I guess it depends on ones definition of "poor."

Just a reminder so you don't try too hard to figure out if anyone hates poor people:

https://coasterbuzz.com/For...hType=Rank

super7*:

The people on dining plans and drink plans use them until they’re only paying a few dollars per meal.

To make up for it they charge $20 for a small portion meal these days to regular guests.

I don’t agree with this premise.

1. On a per capita basis, season pass holders eat fewer meals than day pass visitors. In your typical park, most meals are consumed by single day and group visitors.
2. The fraction of passholders who have dining plans added, on average, overestimate how much they will use it. Parks know this and count on it.
3. There is a very small portion of super dining plan and drink users, and that makes a negligible impact on the overall food program. You’d need to have somewhere around 75 soda refills before the park loses money on a single drink plan. If you are discussing amusement park things online, you might be part of group and again overestimate the size and impact of this cohort.

Fun:

On a per capita basis, season pass holders eat fewer meals than day pass visitors. In your typical park, most meals are consumed by single day and group visitors.

How do you know this?

The only way this might be true is if most season pass holders are within a shorter radius of the park to their homes. One day pass people might be coming from a longer distance. Compared to out of town who can just drive home. or they might spend longer time in the park than a season pass person who goes often.

The main point of this discussion was that Six Flags is expensive for people that don’t have a lot of money. And it is

my point about the season passes is it’s cheap (per visit) to go there if one gets a season pass and uses it enough. But the cost to get there and sometimes staying there also has to be added to that

Regardless. They gouge on meals and drinks if someone is not on the dining plan, making the experience expensive. Especially to the non-passholder

I believe the meal plan is poor business and highly used by the holders for this reason. When one looks around the industry, they aren’t offered by parks such as United (Who absolutely gouges for everything ) and Herschend for some valid reason. Most likely probability.

The thing is that Six Flags has backed themselves into a corner with these meal plans because if they eliminate them like they tried to a few years ago, they will lose their current customer base

I'd be surprised if non-passholders consumed the majority of meals at Cedar Flags parks these days. I believe they said that passholders are making up >60% of admissions these days even at Cedar Point which would probably be considered more of a "destination" park than most in the chain so it's likely even higher at many of the other parks. Locals go after work just to eat and do nothing else. I imagine it might be worse at a park with a large local population. Even someone like me who makes maybe three trips a year for 2-3 days per trip eats probably 15 meals per year at the park. So I see the season meal plan as an okay value for me and my family as we're eating for somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 per meal and it gives the park money they might not have gotten out of me otherwise, but it seems like it might not be the best business model and unless there are a lot of people who really underutilize it, they are maybe leaving money on the table. I'd also be just as happy if they didn't offer the season meal plan and just offered the daily meal/drink plan that got me fed with halfway decent food and hydrated for sub $20 per meal. My per meal price with the season plan is probably lower than they'd like and I'm sure there are people that go a lot more often than me and probably drive their per meal cost down into the $1 per meal range.

I'd rather pay a bit more than I do now to have consistently generous portions, non-mini cups, and food locations consistently open.

I guess I'd say the same about the season pass price. If it cost 20-50% more, but I saw an increased effort to keep rides running and move lines efficiently, I'd feel better than I do now about the "value" of my pass because there are a lot of other costs that I have to factor into my trips (mainly gas and lodging). For me, it's not that the price of admission or food is too much... It's that the experience has been watered down and I feel like their answer is "well too bad get a Fastlane." At that point, the price DOES exceed the point where I see it as a good value.

I'm sort of feeling like the middle class amusement park goer is being driven away. I'm not interested in the cheapo budget experience where I can drive 4 hours each way and ride three rides because the park is running rides at reduced capacity to make it "comfortably crowded." By the same token, I'm not interested in dropping $6-800 more each day for Fastlane to make it an enjoyable day. I need the middle ground.

While I understand what you are getting at, Super7, I will add that it also depends on one's definition of "gouging."

$15- $20 for a meal at an amusement park is to be expected. I get my Uncle Bob out of his assisted living house about twice a week. We eat out a lot, mostly at decent casual dining restaurants. Most of the places we eat cost about the same as a meal at Kings Island. A burger, fries, and a drink at Texas Roadhouse or Five Guys is comparable in price.

I love ball cap hats. I find myself buying them a lot. Bands, characters, ect that I like... The price for hats at the mall, $25 -$40 is comparable to the price for hats at Kings Island.

Although, I do have a running joke with myself. When I see a price that could be considered too high, a voice in my head screams the price as a question. It's hilarious, to me, at least. I seem to do it multiple times a day when I am spending money, especially when I shop at my local rural grocery store. Seems like everyone is price gouging these days, now that I think about it.

I used to be a broke ass.