CF Gutting KI's atmosphere just like CP

Underlying a lot of these discussions is the usual "enthusiast bias". It can be stated simply: large-company corporate parks are by definition bad. Family-owned or small-company corporate parks are by definition good.

Cedar Fair has continued its path from small-company to large-company, and so in some enthusiast circles is increasingly evil, simply by definition.

This isn't to say that every "enthusiast" feels this way, or that everyone who feels this way is an "enthusiast". But, it would be fair to say that the bias is fashionable.

There are ample counter-examples. SFFT is a fabulously charming park, with more "atmosphere" than you can shake a stick at. Going the other direction is hard, but that's probably because small-ownership parks that suck on the charm factor aren't big enough to carry the day on attraction mix, and so they simply fail.

Touchdown, I was being sarcastic.

Darn it eightdotthree, use the ;). That way you dont make your fellow posters look like idiots :(.

;)

Its hard to tell when something is sarcastic in this thread because for a sizable amount of the community:

Evil: Six Flags

Mostly Evil: Cedar Fair, Paramount (pre merger)

Semi Evil: Disney, Universal, Busch, any other corporate titan

God Like: Holiday World, Knobles, any park struggling to stay open

---

Brian Noble said:
Underlying a lot of these discussions is the usual "enthusiast bias". It can be stated simply: large-company corporate parks are by definition bad. Family-owned or small-company corporate parks are by definition good.

Cedar Fair has continued its path from small-company to large-company, and so in some enthusiast circles is increasingly evil, simply by definition.

This isn't to say that every "enthusiast" feels this way, or that everyone who feels this way is an "enthusiast". But, it would be fair to say that the bias is fashionable.

---

Hogwash. Many, many posters here praise some very big companies that do things the right way. Disney. Universal. Anheuser-Busch. To a certain extent, Paramount Parks before the sale to Cedar Fair.

Cedar Fair isn't evil. Neither is Six Flags. They just choose to emphasize certain aspects of their operations at the cost of de-emphasizing other aspects that some enthusiasts (self included) take exception to.

Thanksgiving at Holiday World was built in a field. That's so Six Flags. Just build some rides and square buildings in a field and call it a theme. There's no charm there. It's a betrayal to the natural beauty of the area.

Sounds pretty stupid when you apply the same nonsense to a park that's family-owned, doesn't it?

The alleged destruction of Kings Island and Cedar Point has been highly overstated. You're a drag, Chuck. I'd hate to go to these places with you. You clearly wouldn't have any fun while the other 3 million guest every year are having a great time.

Least I don't thrive on having a half dozen people half my age kissing my butt all the time meanstwhile kissing up to all the corprate gurus.

Who's the drag? I go with people, have a ball and really don't worry about it when Im there. It's a view, one you aparently can't get over and its already been stated the best parks lay between Chucksworld and Gonchland. We're lucky enough to have several that have *FIGURED that out*

When I visited Beech Bend last summer, I noted that the park was basically built in a big field. The place can definitely use some more landscaping and trees. Is that so stupid to observe?

Just making that observation doesn't mean one is deprived of a frontal lobe to one's brain.

Clearly, BB is still a "start-up", and building Kentucky Rumbler was a humongous investment for such a small park. Just as clearly, there isn't that much money yet to dedicate to things like aesthetics. That doesn't make it idiotic to hope that the park will someday lose the carnival feel and acquire some beautification.

And by the way, I had a swell time.

This thread is turning into one giant nonsense generator.

---

Brian Noble said:
This isn't to say that every "enthusiast" feels this way, or that everyone who feels this way is an "enthusiast". But, it would be fair to say that the bias is fashionable.

---

Bingo. :)

---

Charles Nungester said:
It's a view, one you aparently can't get over and its already been stated the best parks lay between Chucksworld and Gonchland.

---

I don't entirely agree with that.

Most parks fall between Chucksworld and Gonchland, but those aren't necessarily the best.

For me, Gonchland is where's it's at.

---

Jeff said:
Thanksgiving at Holiday World was built in a field. That's so Six Flags. Just build some rides and square buildings in a field and call it a theme. There's no charm there. It's a betrayal to the natural beauty of the area.

---

I guess you're being sarcastic here but I'd actually agree - Thanksgiving looks pretty bad, or at least did Spring of '07. I'm sure it will look better with time but for now it's a pretty ugly part of an otherwise good looking park.

^So why does Holiday World get a time period for landscaping to grow in, and CF doesn't?

I agree with Jeff on this one. Its because there was NOTHING to begin with.

Chuck

Growing up living near Dorney I can understand why people fear CF bringing in the dozers. What CF did to Dorney was just sooo sad.

This page http://www.coasterquest.com/dorney.htm
pretty much says it all.

I have pretty much learned to accept the way it is. I just don't visit very often now. There are much better places to go.

Change happens and we can't stop it, but we don't have to like it!

Gene

---

Touchdown said:
^So why does Holiday World get a time period for landscaping to grow in, and CF doesn't?

---

You'd have to ask the people who actually feel that way, I can't tell if you're asking me directly or if it's just a general to the group thing.

For me, Gonchland is where's it's at.

How much is an annual pass? ;)

So why does Holiday World get a time period for landscaping to grow in, and CF doesn't?

Well it's certainly not because of any double standard. Oh, wait...never mind! lol

It's pretty sad to see places like Dorney turn into a 'mini-CP'. What's cool is that there are still some places left with an abundance of historical integrity or whatever you may call it.

Places like Lake Winnie, Knoebel's, Indiana Beach and Kennywood pop into mind pretty quickly.

CI Cyclone as well.

And the way Holiday World is built and the general respect they have for their guests is incredible.

So luckily, we still have some 'good old stuff' left. And I'm pretty sure most of those parks know what they have...

It's always good to let a park know how you feel about the place. Always find good things to say as well.

One thing I will give CF is their operation is the best of all the big thrill parks. You rarely see things broken down. Otherwise though, I'll go to the smaller non-corporate parks if I want a truly fun, worth every buck experience.

---

I'll go to the smaller non-corporate parks...

---

Ensign Smith is right. It's hogwash, this notion of "enthusiast bias."

---

Charles Nungester said:
Least I don't thrive on having a half dozen people half my age kissing my butt all the time meanstwhile kissing up to all the corprate gurus.

---

You've got it all wrong. I thrive on calling out your B.S.

And yes, the corporate bias thing with enthusiasts has been around since the beginning. It's like anything else people feel passionate about. Music "enthusiasts" think everything on the radio is corporate crap. Wine enthusiasts write off anything mass-produced (even when said wines win in blind taste tests with the enthusiasts). I think it's hilarious. When you're one of those people, you've gone to the point of no return. Those people are a drag.

---

CoasterComet said:
What's cool is that there are still some places left with an abundance of historical integrity or whatever you may call it.

---

Historical integrity. I like that.

Now explain to me why it matters. :)

---

Mamoosh said:
For me, Gonchland is where's it's at.

How much is an annual pass?

---

You spelled 'anal' wrong. :)

( s p e e c h l e s s )