CF Gutting KI's atmosphere just like CP

eightdotthree Reply | Edit | Quote 3/27/2008 7:21:19 PM
First of all get rid of Knoebels from any comparison to any Cedar Fair park, especially Cedar Point. As much as I love Knoebels they are not in the same league. Besides, if you want to call Cedar Point a concrete wasteland, one could also say Knobels is a gravel wasteland. Forget about going on a rainy day, its mud! And don't get me started on their hole in the ground toilets. Its a **** hole, literally. Its still awesome though, no other place like it.

Thats funny because Doney and WOF both reminded me of KNOEBELS in the areas untouched by CF. Luckily I was able to visit the AWESOME DORNEY before it was gutted and stripped and has a paratrooper that hung of the side of hill I swear you felt like you were a hundred feet in the air.

Oh well, works for them. I still think some of the changes they made could have included some of the old shade, variety and I'll say it again. ATMOSPHERE that the park had to begin with.

I am not talking about Dorney, I don't love Dorney by any stretch. The title of thread YOU started is "CF Gutting KI's atmosphere just like CP."

I would like to see how you would have grown Cedar Point to where it is today, while maintaining the attendance they have, and still achieve this charm you speak of. As Jeff mentioned, Frontier Trail was built as a way to get from the front of the park to the back. It used to be the only way to get to the back of the park was via sky ride. As cool as that is, can you imagine how long the wait for that sky ride would be now a days? Also have you actually been on Paddlewheel Excursion? Its the same as it always has been, its just not as peaceful. If you want peaceful ride take a boat to put-n-bay.

Did you see the link I posted? Here it is again, http://coasterimage.com/pictures/cedarpoint/general24.html

You can't look at that and say there is no theme, charm or atmosphere.

My impression of amusement and theme parks these days is that they are not run by enthusiasts. Nor are they attended by enthusiasts. Sure, we all go, but we are joined by millions of other folks who, just once a year, visit their regional park. They bounce aimlessly from ride to ride, looking for a thrill. And as far as they're concerned, the newer the thrill the better.

Case in point- I visited KD this weekend after a many year absence. I spent a lot of time watching and listening to people and I realized that no one there but me really cared that Italian Job and Flight of Fear were plunked down on the edge of the Congo. They didn't care that more trees, more water, and a charming but outdated ride like Diamond Falls were missing. Nor will they care that Dominator is on the edge of the parking lot placed mysteriously behind a kid's section. I could paint a similar picture about my visit last year to Knott's.

Busch, Universal and Disney, (destination parks, all) are totally devoted to providing the guest with a thrilling yet aesthetically correct environment. They seem more careful in the artistic sense. They make sure their industry standard park experiences blend into and not take away from established atmosphere. While Six Flags and Cedar Fair have had their share of direct hits, they can also get away with the occasional glaring misstep. They make obvious bottom line-focused decisions knowing their regional customers will show up for great rides like Millenium Force or Goliath, spend their money, and walk away satisfied. Theme? Atmosphere? umm... what?

So Chuck's beloved lake could very well be history. Or not. Or at least altered. But don't be surprised if when you show up at KI in 2009 you find a giant metal monster in place of that once serene setting. Swan Lake as we know it may become another memory, just like the Antiques, Turnpike, Safari, Canoes, Flying Scooters, and Tumblebug did. No one at Cedar Fair will cry when they see the revenue it's replacement is bound to provide.

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RCMAC said:
They seem more careful in the artistic sense. They make sure their industry standard park experiences blend into and not take away from established atmosphere.

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I probably misunderstood you actually, but here is my original post for fun.

I don't recall seeing swamps at Disney World, cause thats the established "atmosphere" it was built on top of.

Universal was completely made up, there is a high school hundreds of from the park! There is nothing established there at all, they bulldozed, started from scratch and spent more than any company can afford. *** Edited 3/28/2008 1:51:21 AM UTC by eightdotthree***

Disney is not perfect either, does Buzz Lightyear REALLY fit in with Tomorrowland's theme? Does Indiana Jones belong next door to the Jungle Cruise?

So how exactly has CF, SF GROWN THE PARK? The price you pay to attend it? Actual attendance hasn't changed much in a decade. Oh CP has added hotels and high dollar campsites as well.

I did complain that KI is the same as it's been with less and less every year. Im not against the new ride or area, For all I know it could be both charming and thrilling. IM not backtracking. Just stating that it was expecially when it included the Antiques THE NICEST AREA OF THE PARK.

Id of sprinked some rides throughout the Antique area, Maybe a mouse in the old Dolphin stadium area and made that section viable and active without destroying it.

Chuck

The key to a great park is balance. Look at Busch Gardens Europe. They have a great balance of landscaping, trees, roller coasters, food, shows, rides, shade, and theming. ALL of that is what makes atmosphere.

I CAN USE CAPS TOO.

I seriously love how everyone is attacking CF "destruction" of a park section before they are even done. Why cant people wait until the park is done before critisizing it? A construction site is ugly, no matter where it is, take for instance:

http://www.bgescape.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?pid=639&fullsize=1

You cant judge a good "natural landscape" job until at least 3-5 years after everything is done. From what I remember, there was not much trees left there after Italian Job was put in, I bet in the end more are planted then were torn out.

Great Point Touchdown. My opinion on Cedar Fair is that they have to take a different approach on KI than on CP. Most of the public and enthusiasts go to CP for the Coasters and Rides. Most go to Kings Island for the Water Park, Coasters, and beauty of the park. Im not saying CP doesn't have a water park or beauty.

CP advertises the coasters more than anything else. I do give CF a fair chance... but when u leave a CF park u kind of have a feeling its all about profit. Again BALANCE is the key. and they seem to be doing that at KI. The new shows, coaster (last year), food improvements (lower price would be nice... but wont happen), and hopefully more landscaping and trees. That picture of BG proves that we cannot judge a construction site.... Only time will tell.

-Bryan

To me it sounds like you guys are taking your own emotions and opinions and having a battle until someone wins. Just because you like something doesn't mean the other is going to like it. Just because that person likes something doesn't mean your going to like it.

I think CF and the higher ups are doing what should of happened along time ago. Their tearing out the things that are costing the parks a lot of money and grief and getting them the hell out of there. "Period"! Its become an issue that has over-lapped your opinion. Who cares what you like or dislike, "get rid of it".

Its not about emotional connections to rides, trees or attractions; its a business question. It would be different if Kings Island was considered a problem park, a destination with issues like Magic Mountain. Kings Island is considered one of the country's best amusement parks.

How does CF maintain the park's reputation and atmosphere? Sure, add to it, but subtracting the things that make the park unique suggests that CF can't identify or manage the more subtle qualities to amusement park success. In the long run it does translate into loss of revenue because of competition with other parks with character.

Just as I would not want Cedar Point to be taken over by Disney, Holiday World over run by Six Flags, or Dollywood to be bought out by Busch; as a fan I would hope most of Kings Island character remains intact for the park's sake and the financial success that comes with it.

CF should be proud of their new family member. Not sure she needs to be converted in order to carry the Cedar Fair name. At this point they seem content just calling the park Kings Island. *** Edited 3/28/2008 4:45:30 AM UTC by rc-madness***

Would I be wrong to say that you can get much more atmosphere than Silver Dollar City? I would say that it and to some extent Dollywood as the best examples of atmosphere that there are in the US

This thread is great. Keep it up kids. I'm laughing my head off.

I see where Chuck is coming from. I love KI. I would go as far as saying it is my favorite park ever! I worry that CF will do what it did to the other parks it has bought over the years. A lot of CoasterBuzzers have complained about the "sterilization" of Dorney, WOF, Knott's, ect.

King's Island used to be magical to me. While it is very exciting that KI is "probably" (wink wink nudge nudge) getting a new hyper coaster, it is very distressing that the park may become even less enchanting along the way.

I miss my old Kings Island!

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LostKause said:
A lot of CoasterBuzzers have complained about the "sterilization" of Dorney, WOF, Knott's, ect!

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Yup. And if you'll also take notice, that as time passes, people eventually just come to terms with it and accept it. Not "accept it" as in agree with what's being done to the parks, but "accept it" as in realizing what's done is done and you can't turn back the clock.

It's when the changes BEGIN to happen and are incredibly noticeable that people are usually outraged and complain. Eventually, most of us can't really do anything about these changes, so it just grows on us.

For example, the Knott's I knew when I was a kid compared to the Knott's now (and I'm talking as recent as a decade ago) is completely different. Cedar Fair really has changed the park, for better and for worse.

But we have to keep in mind, with time comes change. And not every change is going to please everybody. If parks stayed the same for years down the road and did not keep up with industry trends and provide new reasons for people to visit, they would cease to exist.

*** Edited 3/28/2008 6:43:25 AM UTC by kRaXLeRidAh***

http://www.toothpastefordinner.com/092105/someone-with-a-different-opinion.gif

LOL BitOmike!

This reply is to CoasterDiscern.

At first I didn't understand what you were saying but thought about it (Trust mm I didn't loose any sleep)

Your right. CF is and should do what Paramount didn't and change things up and CHANGE IT DRASTICALLY (Caps for emphasis)

Like another poster said, Taft did a wonderful job overall with the design, layout and landscaping and actually the additions they made durring their term. KECO just totally messed things up mostly in clenliness and friendlness and allowing drunks to roam free. The park was going fine until the mid eighties. Some removals but a lot of that stuff was old to begin with.

Paramounts biggest problem is they were trying to create a UNIVERSAL on a budget out of a existing park and almost every attraction they added got its BUDGET CUT while building them. Follwed up with tossing them here and there with no real plan. The only section I feel they did right was NICK CENTRAL but thats after they screwed up with that splashworks.

The area of the park that needs significant change is CONEY. Firehawk was a step in the right direction however the whole area needs a renewal with new and different rides.

When I visited Canada's Wonderland I was very surprised and thrilled at how UNPARAMOUNT the park felt. My opinion of PKD was actually far worse than KI and WOF except for the Mamba area (Which was new) was loaded with atmosphere.

The threads about keeping whats naturally NICE while still adding and changing. Im generally impressed with the additions CP has made over my 25 years of visiting. I would have done a few things a little different (I do feel that a lot of it's natural beauty has been destroyed and interupted) But OK, I'll give up.

Chuck

I can't argue with you there, a lot the natural beauty is gone but the atmosphere did not go with it.

Touchdown posted a great picture of what BGE does to keep the natural beauty of the park, here it is again. http://www.bgescape.com/Gallery/displayimage.php?pid=639&fullsize=1

As you can see, they do a wonderful job building around the natural landscape the park sits on.

^What? Heres an earlier picture:
http://www.bgescape.com/images/Project2007/July_04.jpg

Le Mans was full of trees and much more change in elevation! What I was trying to show is that even though they removed trees and flattened the land a bit the area still turned out fantastic.

Of course the same thing could be said about Maverick (lake was drained and footers poured but then lake reappeared) trees were cut down, but new ones were planted. While the area might seem a little barren now, it will fell just like the rest of Frontiertown in 3-5 years when the trees start growing in.