CF Gutting KI's atmosphere just like CP

Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:06 PM
http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj4/kirbias/

I really can't understand why they have to GUT EVERYTHING expecially in a park with 100 undeveloped acres to build their new SIGNATURE RIDE!

Chuck saying it was the only area with some shade and quiet left.

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:10 PM
I agree with you but Paramount started doing it first with the addition of Italian Job. Horrible place for that ride in my opinion, the park looked so much better with the antique cars there.
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Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:31 PM
So they are adding something, but not in the way you want them to add it, so Cedar Fair is bad.

Not really disagreeing with you, but still.

Also much like Mamoosh's statement on intensity vs. rough, trees do not make atmosphere.

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:34 PM
They are going to start planting new trees anyways. I love the location of the ride. It's always cool pulling in the parking lot to a cool looking ride.
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Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:44 PM
^^Actually, since trees take in carbon dioxide and produce oxygen, they do make atmosphere. Literally. ;)
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Thursday, March 27, 2008 12:57 PM
Oh look! A post by Chuck about how much he can't stand something at Kings Island. *shock*

The park is doing construction....and it JUST started. Jesus, let them finish whatever they are working on and then say something about it. Are you claiming you are 100% sure they aren't going to refill the lake? Are you claiming they aren't going to plant more trees? Hell, at this point, for all we know they may be putting in new 'tiques. That is highly doubtful, but I'm sure you see my point...You have no clue what their plans are, so why the HELL are you throwing such a fit?

You have so many ideas about how the park should be run. You'd think someone would've put you in charge instead of Scheid.

*** Edited 3/27/2008 5:00:15 PM UTC by kirk06***

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:11 PM
Dirt and land clearing is one of the requirements of building something new.

If they weren't building something new this would turn into something along the lines of "CF letting KI rot with no new rides, unlike CP".

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:13 PM
When CF took over Knott's they removed a lot of unique and charming attractions from the park. Sure, big attractions are important but Cedar Fair seems to lack an appreciation for the more subtle qualities of the parks they take over. I expected the movie themes to be taken down at Kings Island, but why make the park look like any other Cedar Fair destination? To do this can only diminish what is already a uniquely great park. Build the hyper but there is no need to fix what isn't broken. *** Edited 3/27/2008 5:15:50 PM UTC by rc-madness***
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Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:31 PM
Trees grow back. When you look at photos from when all of these parks opened you will see a major lack of trees.
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Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:41 PM
In order for the title of your post to make logical sense, you are inferring that Paramount somehow added some atmosphere worth keeping.

So I would ask you, what "atmosphere" are you talking about?

Let me give you some examples;

Calling a roller coaster "Face-off" and throwing up some oversized movie posters does not make a theme, or atmosphere. This was also used with "Drop Zone", with the same pathetic results.

And who "gutted" Top Gun's theming? Paramount.

Oh, and then half our rides have NO movie theme. Beast, SOB, The racers, flight of fear, Vortex...

So we have a park that is kinda-sorta-half-assed themed to movies, and then a lot of the park with no movie tie in whatsoever.

What a frickin mess!

I say thank god CF came in to clean it up...it was already travelling downhill at a high rate of speed in terms of atmosphere.

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:49 PM

gomez said:
If they weren't building something new this would turn into something along the lines of "CF letting KI rot with no new rides, unlike CP".

LOL! So true. :)

You mean like the 10th post in this thread? For the record:


Charles Nungester said:
...mearly pointing out that in their press release ALL PARKS will be operated INDEPENDENTLY and have a 22 percent REINVSTEMENT on their ATTENDANCE.

KI has beaten and runs close to CP in Attendance. They now have a resort and CP has added three 20 million dollar plus coasters amongst other things in the last six years.

But like others have said, KI can never get something that will beat the flagship. Neither will any of their other parks.


The first complaint was the lack of meaningful additions and this thread complains of the way the additions are being added.

Good stuff. :)

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:02 PM

eightdotthree said:So they are adding something, but not in the way you want them to add it, so Cedar Fair is bad. Not really disagreeing with you, but still.Also much like Mamoosh's statement on intensity vs. rough, trees do not make atmosphere.

Bright paint and concrete sure as heck dont :)

The area was dead, I understand that. But that was part of its charm. If you want screaming, puke and crowds Action Zone and Coney were the place.

Chuck, understanding spreading the crowd and yes. It's not my preference but I don't own it.

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:10 PM

Amnesiac said:
I agree with you but Paramount started doing it first with the addition of Italian Job.

I haven't been back since IJ was built but the conversion of the very nice Adventure Village to the very Cedar Fair-esqe Action Zone was also a big blow. I don't want to be the cliche enthusiast who bitches about change at every point but there's a right way to do things and a wrong way and a lot of charm and atmosphere was lost that season.


eightdotthree said:
So they are adding something, but not in the way you want them to add it, so Cedar Fair is bad.

As enthusiasts, this is what some of us do. An operator does something we don't like - we complain about it. I think in this case it's much too early to make any sort of call here but given CF's history I don't think being a little leery of all of this is too crazy.

As far as trees not equaling atmosphere, they have never ever ever hurt. Ever.


kirk06 said:
You have no clue what their plans are, so why the HELL are you throwing such a fit?

In all fairness we've already seen drawings and diagrams for the new coaster. I am no way claiming that all of these are 100% real, likely, or legit, but I don't think anyone here is going to be shocked when KI announces they're building a pretty large B&M hyper coaster. Sure, that could be completely wrong, but claiming we have no clue when we've seen several possible ones is a bit silly.


OhioStater said:
In order for the title of your post to make logical sense, you are inferring that Paramount somehow added some atmosphere worth keeping.

No, not at all. The park existed before Paramount and there was plenty that wasn't touched by Paramount that was already there. Making a statement about CF's current decision making process doesn't hinge on Paramount's decisions in the past, at all.


Lord Gonchar said:
The first complaint was the lack of meaningful additions and this thread complains of the way the additions are being added.

C'mon, this is unfair and it's pretty easy to see why. Simply wanting/requesting/wishing for a new attraction doesn't mean by default that that then precludes us from disliking what's getting built, or how it's getting built.

I realize that most of the digs at Chuck are because he's doing his regular broken-record thing (not to mention his jumping the gun on this, IMO) but complaining about a lack of new attractions shouldn't mean we can't also complain about the nature of new attractions when they come.

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:14 PM
Now is this the construction site of the alleged hyper coaster?

*** Edited 3/27/2008 6:15:29 PM UTC by WildThingNative*** *** Edited 3/27/2008 6:16:35 PM UTC by WildThingNative***

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:35 PM
So I see "someone" still hasn't gotten over the loss of the flyers....
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Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:47 PM
Until that pile of dirt is covered with concrete and trash cans, it won't be just like CP.

Loss of atmosphere is inevitable for most big parks. It's the trade-off for having bigger, nicer toys, like B&M hypers. Think BGE would be nearly as charming if you added another six coasters?

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:49 PM
You know, the funny thing is that I've always felt CP had plenty of atmosphere. Few parks can overwhelm the senses with so many serious rides the way that park does.

I can't account for changes at very many CF parks, but I can tell you for sure that Cedar Point has never been the concrete wasteland some enthusiasts are so fond of saying it is. Sure, there's the main midway, which is enormous, but it has been that way for nearly 40 years. Ditto for the Gemini midway. When they have made changes, they've always planted trees. When White Water Landing opened, you could see the whole thing. By the time it came down, it was dense with vegetation. When Camp Snoopy opened, you could see end to end. Now you can see one or two rides ahead. When the maXair midway went up, the games torn out were replaced with the new ride and new trees. Frontier Trail and Town are as shady as ever.

And look at Michigan's Adventure. That place used to look like a county fair ground. Now it's quite nice, and trees are growing up.

As for KI, we don't even know what they're doing there. Whatever it is, I bet they plant trees when they're done, just as they have everywhere else.

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:55 PM

Charles Nungester said:
http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj4/kirbias/

I really can't understand why they have to GUT EVERYTHING expecially in a park with 100 undeveloped acres to build their new SIGNATURE RIDE!


If they build their new "SIGNATURE RIDE" on any of the 100 undeveloped acres, won't they still be "gutting", just in a different location? Then the complaint will be that the woodland creatures are being robbed of their habitat or something of the like. That area would then have to become part of the park, essentially just swapping one "gutted" area for another. Unless they can figure out how to build the coaster station and queue underground, suspended in mid-air, or in a Swiss Family Robinson-style tree house, there will need to be some significant land clearing somewhere. Eh, maybe I'm just used to my concrete paradise at Cedar Point.


Kristin, who realizes her name is already her user name and in her signature, but feels the need to remind everyone just one more time.

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 3:04 PM
When the parks were Taft Owned, they had charm and all of the rides and attractions seemed to be in place with the theming of the areas.

The parks started to detoriate and suffer under KECO.

Paramount absolutely removed the majority of the charm of the parks by placing new rides and attractions anywhere they fit, and by giving them horrible, non-lasting movie themes.

I fully expect Cedar Fair to ruin whatever is left of the charm of the parks. They have demonstrated that at their other parks. Big ride installation is priority over park atmosphere.

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Thursday, March 27, 2008 3:25 PM
You know what I think is funny? In 2003 Cedar Point built Top Thrill Dragster, a very large ride. Enthusiasts complained that the ride was too big, too short, took away too much atmosphere.

Then, in 2004, 2005, and 2006, they built smaller rides - and added lots of trees and other additions to the park. Enthusiasts complained each and every year that Cedar Point wasn't building a new coaster - they were happy with the additions, but still wanted a new coaster.

I don't mind when enthusiasts complain. I do have a problem with hypocrisy though.

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