CF Gutting KI's atmosphere just like CP
Cedar Point is not and has never been a theme park. It is an amusement park that, depending on the attraction, includes theme elements. This is not a new concept. Coney Island, Steeplechase Park, Luna Park, Long Beach Pike, Venice Pier and many others of the golden era were amusement parks that had both off-the-shelf rides (tilt a whirls, whips, shoot-the-chutes, etc) as well as a few themed attractions (scenic railways, old mills, etc).
If you had been on it lately you'd know the rides are also part of the jokes now. And a friend of mine who worked it in the 80's contends it was never a "Mark Twain" trip but rather a goofy attempt at being Disney.
Charles Nungester said:
Example. Paddlewheel Excursions. You rode it back in the 80's felt like you were on some Mark Twain trip through the rivers and brush. NOW: A NICE VIEW Of all the pretty coasters with NOISE SO LOUD you can't hear the funny jokes.
All of the things you mention are still there, now with the rides at each end. And it was never "away from the midway," as it's one of the two ways to get to the back of the park!
EXAMPLE, CP's frontier town: A place you could go eat corn on the cob right off the grill. A place away from the midway. A area that where you could kick back a bit. Study history, animals, Craftsmanship. Now you got two giant coasters and a shoot the shoots that could have been put anywhere.
No, Chuck, people just don't agree with you. That doesn't mean they don't get it, and it doesn't mean they're attacking you. If this stresses you out, you need to let go a little. Turn the comprooder off.
Thats what you DON'T GET! ...Chuck, taking a stress tab and really is all the blatant attacks necessary?
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
super7* said:When the parks were Taft Owned, they had charm and all of the rides and attractions seemed to be in place with the theming of the areas.The parks started to detoriate and suffer under KECO.Paramount absolutely removed the majority of the charm of the parks by placing new rides and attractions anywhere they fit, and by giving them horrible, non-lasting movie themes.I fully expect Cedar Fair to ruin whatever is left of the charm of the parks. They have demonstrated that at their other parks. Big ride installation is priority over park atmosphere.
BINGO! and they'll probably defer maintenence on the other rides just to build it.
Jeff said:We're starting to tread into the area where enthusiasts aren't any fun to be around.So what exactly is a "charming" park? Do people not have fun at these non-charming parks? That's not a question for Chuck, because I get the sense he doesn't have fun anywhere.
You would be very wrong, In fact when I was marathoning on Thunderhead a kid came and rode asked if he could ride with me stating that you look like your having so much fun! He continued to ride with me till his GF drug him off. :)
I have serious fun at parks at the parks the provide the proper ingredients. Shorter waits, Nice setting, Thrilling rides and friendly people. I even had a blast at MIA.
Im not saying this move is going to ruin KI. The rides gotta lot of potential. Technically if they use the terrain they could have up to a 300ft drop off a 150ft hill.
Im just saying I would just prefer not DESTROYING whats there to do it.
I don't call it hypocritical like you guys are saying I am. Just about everyone agrees IJ WAS STUPID and JUNKED the are it was in.
The ride brings in NOBODY yet looks like a junkyard. ALL Im stating in this post is that the area around swan lake or whatever you want to call it. (CANADIAN GEESE LAKE) was charming, quiet and wooded. RIVERTOWN is now going to be changed to OCTOBERFEST or action zone.
Oh and I guess TR:TR wasn't a boo boo and eyesore either?
Chuck *** Edited 3/27/2008 10:26:11 PM UTC by Charles Nungester***
Jeff Young said:Matt, it is hypocrisy when the same people do all the complaining.Chuck, you know, there certainly is quite a large amount of (what you call) "atmoshphere" around Maverick. Give it a little time to grow, and it will be beautiful. Why not take out the trees and have a clean slate to work on - and then add the trees and other things back in once you've got the ride built - and you're totally sure about clearances around the ride. That seems to make good construction sense to me.
matt. said:That's not hypocrisy, that's just what happens when you have a group made up of thousands of people with wildly varying opinions.
Note, I not once mentioned Maverick :)
Lord Gonchar said:Funny. I think the same thing about the "charm and atmosphere" people - just change $50 to $30 and parking lot to rural. Again, I'm having a problem with leaving trees up near a ride being equal to creativity.
Charles Nungester said:You guys never get it and probably never will, Perfectly content to pay 50 bucks to walk into a parking lot carnival with a bunch of under maintained rides and lack of creativity.I think you're missing the point. This is what CF does. It's the product they deliver. They put in big midways, large rides, lights, signs, sensory overload. It's not a mistake - it's the point. (pun not intended)
EXAMPLE, BEAST, RAVEN, LEGEND and many other rides took great care and thought into their bulding process to keep as much as WHAT THEY HAD intact. CFs latest ploy is to just gut it and start over.Funny again, because I would say the exact same thing. Rides are a small part of the overall experience. Which is why it takes more than trees or fake log cabins to amuse me.
Rides aint even half the ATMOPHERE or EXPERIENCE of a park to me. Thats what you DON'T GET!Uncanny. I'd have said the same thing yet again.
I go to be thrilled, I go to be entertained and I go TO GET AWAY FROM IT ALL.Aww, we finally get to disagree. I look to get AWAY FROM the BOREDOM, MONOTONY, REPETITION and Mundaneness of the everyday world. These parks deliver a reality turned up to 11. It's supposed to be exciting and crazy and over the top.I find it thrilling, entertaining and escapist in nature.
I look to get AWAY FROM the GLITZ, BUZZ, HYPE and Brightness of the every day busy body world. Instead they make the park just like it.Me too, my man, me too.
I go to be thrilled, I go to be entertained and I go TO GET AWAY FROM IT ALL.
Were kinda on oposite sides of the same page. Getting away from it all also means don't shove advertisements, MTV and Annoying announcements in my face at every turn.
Kennywood, Ah KENNYWOOD! WHAT HUGE MEGA RIDES? your in the middle of the Ghetto yet you feel perfectly content to enjoy yourself and BE AWAY FROM IT ALL. Sure theres a sponsor sign here and there but they don't shove the comercial. TACO BELL and SUBWAY down your throat. I can get that on the outside.
Same reason I quit going to hockey games. When commericals on the scoreboard interfere with play and they actually stop play to run them.
THATS NOT FUN ANYMORE!
I have tons of other options, hobbies and things to do than just parks. (
Been doing it for several years including the TWO I DIDN't vist KI.) I can get away from it all in my half acre pool and 20 person hot tub. KI has to make me want to come. Im hoping the ride is that good, The title of the post is strong. It's meant to be and it's not totally B*TCHN to do so but constructive critisism in that many of these BIG PARKS need to take a lesson from the small ones.
Chuck, who agrees with another poster that there were certain areas that had a different feel, charm and atmosphere. I hope the park doesn't become one big action zone.
matt. said:Would it be crazy at this point to mention that between Gonchland and Chuckland, most good parks have elements of both and they aren't mutually exclusive?
Somebody has common sence :)
Chuck, That god for Indiana and PA parks
rollergator said:Didn't make much sense to Will K. when Voyage was being built. If my money were on the line, I'd probably be sorely tempted to bulldoze and start with clear, flat land (like if I were building an SLC, hehe). But there is something to be said for having mature large trees around. They add a surprising amount to the atmosphere of the place, above and beyond the fact that they clean the air, provide shade, and are nice to look at.Can't even *imagine* BGW/E denuded of its luscious tree-cover...
Jeff Young said:Why not take out the trees and have a clean slate to work on - and then add the trees and other things back in once you've got the ride built - and you're totally sure about clearances around the ride. That seems to make good construction sense to me.
Did I mention "I LOVE YOU"
Chuck, who's gonna have to stop using the quote but thats exactly what Im trying to say. By the time those new trees get to where they are now. I'll be dead twenty years.
Also, looks to me that the lake is still there, just drained so Im sure that will be back once the station is built, as Im sure new trees will be too. Its not like the "business end" of the hyper will be back there Chuck anyways, you'll still get your semi silence, except for the occasional click-clack of the lift. The only thing I hope is that they keep the trees close to the track once its into the wooded part of Rivertown, just because its more thrilling to be rushing by trees. But either way, I will be darn sure not complain about a ride that will inch that park closer to perfection in my book.
2022 Trips: WDW, Sea World San Diego & Orlando, CP, KI, BGW, Bay Beach, Canobie Lake, Universal Orlando
And I still think you're no fun.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
This Isn't A Hospital--It's An Insane Asylum!
+trees, +charm, +theming =
http://www.cable-car-guy.com/ptrain/images/disney_0607_002.jpg
+trees, +charm, -theming =
http://blogalice.com/files/knoebels.jpg
-trees, +charm, +theming =
http://www.mouseplanet.com/dca/pier7.jpg
-trees, -charm, +theming =
http://www.tour-the-point.com/DTransport1.jpg
-trees, -charm, -theming =
http://bp1.blogger.com/_cVF2LlOx6Zc/RwfoyiKGWCI/AAAAAAAACAU/QiwoXaIH89E/s1600/Picture%2B1.png
Bet we have more fun. If not, we'll just get drunk and think we did :)
Touche' :)
Chuck
Indiana Beach gets biggie points for being atmospheric at night.
Great America used to as well - the changing white/blue lights on the Tidal Wave and the headlights/tail lights on the whizzer were the things memory's were made of.
Not only could you 'hear' when the Tidal Wave was back 'online' but you could see it!
I remember being on the Whizzer, with lights, around '82 when an announcement was made that the park would stay open an hour later due to capacity issues on 4th of July.
Now it's all about freakin Geiko and Comcast. Sad.
"I'd rather be watching Solid Goldhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmMv4LRCczs
than waiting in long lines with rich people passing me up"
"I'd rather be watching Mr. Rogers or Howdy Doody."
*** Edited 3/27/2008 11:56:23 PM UTC by CoasterComet***
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I don't care how many roller coasters or rides the niche filling park chains promised a destination. I would not want a Cedar Fair, a Disney or a Six Flags to get their hands on Holiday World, Kennywood, Knobels, or Silverdollar City.
The fact that Cedar Fair is allowing parks to retain their former names shows their unwillingness to become the Mac Donalds of Amusement, thank god. I think Six Flags would be perfectly happy to carbon copy their most successful park and implant it in each of their destinations.
Sure, Paramount did things to Kings Island long before CF got their hands on it, but it doesn't mean I want KI to now look like any other Cedar Fair establishment. Kings Island is already successful, so should it need a face lift?
Cedar Fair is taking over many parks. Is the company doing this because they see the value in these unique destinations or is it more important to fullfill a narrowly defined amusement niche? What CF does with Gilroy Gardens, Kings Island and Canada's Wonderland will answer that for me.
If you want to pick photos from Cedar Point, pick some good ones, its a big place.
http://coasterimage.com/pictures/cedarpoint/general24.html
http://coasterimage.com/pictures/cedarpoint/mantis07.htm
Just look at these peoples faces, looks like their having a blast on this ride that supposedly has no trees around it,
http://coasterimage.com/pictures/cedarpoint/topthrilldragster29.html
BTW gonch, I love this photo,
http://coasterimage.com/pictures/cedarpoint/topthrilldragster36.html
gomez said:
^Those are bad pictures to use to prove your argument.I guess CP lost its charm in the 1920s when they built Cyclone in that exact spot.
Actually, there was probably some monocled gentleman in 1929 who thought that "that blasted wooden thrill-contraption utterly diminishes the natural beauty of this beach!"
For what it is worth, Wild Adventures is very much a concrete jungle. Let's see if the park gains in the atmosphere department now that the park is owned by a company that's viewed favorably. Will the trees magically grow taller and greener? Probably not. But I wouldn't be surprised to see considerable improvement in landscaping efforts, in shows, better food choices and restroom facilities, shaded walkways. I honestly can't wait to see what the place looks like in a couple years.
Gaining in charm? Could be something we haven't had to talk about very frequently....
Busch, and HFEC seem to "get" atmosphere and landscaping...yet A-B is a corporate titan, how can they possibly understand? ;)
You still have Zoidberg.... You ALL have Zoidberg! (V) (;,,;) (V)
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