Come on guys, VF's 2003 coaster has to be the worst kept secret on the web. The question is what? not IF.
and rollergator and big phbbbbb :p to you! ;) of course I meant the inverted choo choo train with retractable seats. :)
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S W :) :) S H
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GO CARDINALS!!!
I'd rather see a B&M invert but if they get an impulse, then oh well, at least they are getting a coaster.
*** This post was edited by Goku2216 on 4/29/2002. ***
Swoosh said:
CPlaya, while I will agree you can never have "too many woods" try to explain to the GP how this wooden coaster is different from another.
Simple....start with a tall lift hill, a twisting drop and curl the thing up all over itself GCI-style. One look and the GP will get it.
And where do you get the idea VF is 'poor'? We've already had a second major capital expansion after our hyper (PT, $9 million) and we're about to get our third. DP just had their second major cap budget last year. And I think WOF is still waiting for a turn...
-'Playa
*** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya on 4/29/2002. ***
I still don't get the "Wicked Twister throw away conspiracy". If I were a betting man, I would say the next big thing for Cedar Point is in 2004, based mainly on the "every other year" trend they have had in the past. I do believe something will come to the park next year, but I am expecting a few flats and some basic park improvements. Anything else, esp. a coaster would be a pleasent surprise, and totally unexpected in my opinion...
-Mikey
CoastaPlaya said:
Simple....start with a tall lift hill, a twisting drop and curl the thing up all over itself GCI-style. One look and the GP will get it.
And where do you get the idea VF is 'poor'? We've already had a second major capital expansion after our hyper (PT, $9 million) and we're about to get our third. DP just had their second major cap budget last year. And I think WOF is still waiting for a turn...
First off your reasoning for the woodie doesn't change the fact it would still be a woodie and would still be describe by the common GP as "another Shivering Timbers type ride".
Secondly, VF! has really only gotten 2 rides since their hyper. One replaced a coaster that was in need of lots of repair, and then Power Tower. DP has had major improvements over the years including 2 new coasters, and a whole new children's section. WOF has received lots of improvements including Boomerang, a new children's section, Thunderhawk and lots of park improvements. VF! is by far the park that needs a new attraction the worst. What has the park received since Power Tower?
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GO CARDINALS!!!
"Another Shivering Timbers type ride?" How much of the general Valleyfairing public even knows Timbers exists?
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"
No, no, no Jeff...Swoosh and I were arguing about MA's future. I say they should get a GCI twister or a CCI built for speed with lots of crossovers.
But back to the VF part of the argument...
Swoosh said: VF! has really only gotten 2 rides since their hyper.
Cough, cough.....Chance Chaos...cough...1997...same year CP got theirs....cough. Oooh. Something stuck in my throat there.
One replaced a coaster that was in need of lots of repair...
That's funny. I seem to recall the Boomerang going up in the site formerly occupied by Zambezi Zinger. I'll leave you to your own punch line there.
....WOF has received lots of improvements including Boomerang, a new children's section, underhawk and lots of park improvements...
When VF added 5 new kiddie rides, an activity area and revamped their TotSpots, that wasn't the big news....PT was. What WOF marketed as a big new addition for '01 had already happened @ VF in 2000.
As far as improvements go, I'd call a new 430-seat theater, new front entrance facilities, a new arcade, new bathrooms, two 3-story employee dorms, new ride signage, new queue canopies and new landscaping park improvements, too. I just wouldn't bother bringing them up as if they were front-page news.
VF! is by far the park that needs a new attraction the worst. What has the park received since Power Tower?
In reality, both VF and WOF have had a new spin-and-spue and a new cheap coaster installed (they're both about $3 million installed apiece) since their Morgan hypers were built. There's only a massive, 3-legged, 275-foot tall difference between them.....one that cost as much--or maybe a bit more--than every WOF cap expansion combined since Mamba. 2003 will only widen the gap.
-'Playa
*** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya on 4/29/2002. ***
Well seeing how Valleyfair already has a good out and back in High Roller (new paint makes this thing look great this year) I wouldn't expect to see them build another Out and Back. However, I guess one really never knows. The one thing I do know is that their won't be any coaster or any ride going by Wild Thing's third hill or the go carts for that matter. Another thing I do know is that managers are sour on any shuttle rides.
I haven't seen the actual plans for the new ride, I know we are getting a new ride and I know management is actually really excited about it.
I've heard rumblings, but I don't really know much. Hope I cleared some confusion.
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Excalibur Crew for 2002!
It seemed I could get a good clear view of the repainted High Roller Friday....a little too good.
Either there's some trees missing or Picnic facilities gone or both.
I also noticed shrubs planted in a row blocking the former 'grassy knoll' overflow parking area (where countless Web rumormongers people swore a new coaster would go) from the rest of the parking lot.
My educated guess is that the non-catered picnic area will move to the grassy knoll and the '03 coaster will occupy at least some of the former picnic area's space. This does not rule out certain elements of the coaster sailing over the Antique Autos (a la Raptor's Cobra Roll over the Turnpike Cars- tho I doubt our coaster will have that element).
-'Playa
Ok CostaPlaya, before we go off starting a war, here is a list of capital improvements since 1996 at both parks, I hope I didn't leave anything off from VF, mind you this is just rides.
96 VF - Wildthing*, WoF -Detonator & RipCord*
97 VF - Chaos, WoF - BBC
98 VF - ???, WoF - MAMBA*
99 VF - MadMouse, WoF - Grand Prix Raceway
00 VF - Power Tower*, WoF - Boomerang
01 VF - nothing, WoF - Camp Snoopy
02 VF - nothing, WoF - Thunderhawk
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"I'd call a new 430-seat theater, new front entrance facilities, a new arcade, new bathrooms, two 3-story employee dorms, new ride signage, new queue canopies and new landscaping park improvements, too. I just wouldn't bother bringing them up as if they were front-page news. "
WoF already has a large theatre, several large arcades and has received lots of landscaping as well, so they are equal on that. They have yet to receive their new entrance, mainly because upper mgmt is not sure what they want to do yet.
So with looking at the timelines, there really isn't much "gap" between the two parks. The only thing different between the two is WoF has a redone children's area and for some reason VF has yet to get their's. I imagine as soon as CF pulls out of the mgmt thing at MOA, they will get Snoopy at VF.
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S W :) :) S H
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GO CARDINALS!!!
Since go-kart tracks and kiddie areas hardly count as major, big-capital expenditures, let's just break it down to what counts... the major investments.
WoF
$3M spin-and spue (Thunderhawk)
$3M small coaster
(Boomerang)
$10M Morgan hyper
(Mamba)
VF
$3M spin-and spue
(Chaos)
$3M small coaster
(Mad Mouse)
$10M Morgan hyper
(Wild thing)
$9M Full-size S&S tower
(PT)
VF was simply holding back their usual $2-3M cap expenditure budget to speed up the next truly major cap expenditure. I think I'll forgive them the minute that sweet B&M steel starts to rise.
-'Playa
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Excalibur Crew for 2002!
WoF
$3M spin-and-spew (Thunderhawk) 2002
$3M small coaster (Boomerang) 2000
$10M Morgan hyper (Mamba) 1998
$8M S&S tower (Detonator) 1996
VF
$3M spin-and-spew (Chaos) 1997
$3M small coaster (Mad Mouse) 1999
$10M Morgan hyper (Wild Thing) 1996
$9M S&S tower (Power Tower) 2000
I'm not sure why you keep leaving out Detonator, which was added the same year as Wild Thing was added. I'm not sure of the exact dollar amount, but I know it was less than PT mainly because it was built earlier. Also notice that WOF adds a major ride every other year whereas VF is a little more sporadic when comes to adding attractions. I would say VF will get a coaster next year, but look for one at WOF the year after.
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S W :) :) S H
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GO CARDINALS!!!
*** This post was edited by Swoosh on 4/29/2002. ***
I'm not sure of the exact dollar amount, but I know it was less than PT mainly because it was built earlier.
No, that had more to do with it having a 90' shorter ride segment and having one less leg.
Detonator cost between $3-4 million, based on pricing of shorter towers like it. Not a bad choice for a small budget year at all, and its success inspired the other parks to build taller models with more legs (except DP).
That tends to happen to the pioneers. You can always pick them out from the arrows in their backs (like VF's WT). Never, ever be the first with a new ride...
-'Playa
PS - Does that extra height make a difference? Ohhhhhhhhhh yeah. I haven't been on Detonator yet, but I've tried IOA's Fearfall and DP's Dominator and wondered why I bothered.
*** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya on 4/29/2002. ***
CPlaya- Also realize that this was the first ever dual tower in park model and when it opened it was the tallest tower ride they had built. Also remember this is a first generation tower so it has a little more "umphf" to it at the top. I have ridden numerous of the 2nd generation towers and they just don't deliver like Detonator. Also remember that they also added RipCord in 1996, so it was not a low budget season by any means.
SWOOSH
PS: Also after riding CP's Power Tower, I wondered where the airtime was, quite boring actually...only thing it has going for it is the height, which goes to prove you can build taller but air can only push you at a great deal of velocity only so high.
Also haven't we gone at each other with this numerous times on URC and Coasterforums before? Man you think we would have killed each other by now. ;)
*** This post was edited by Swoosh on 4/29/2002. ***
Usually I bring up the additional rides CF also installed at the other MN park down the road, which really squashes the 'poor VF' notion flat.
But even without it, it really doesn't hold water, does it?
BTW, 1996 brought VF WT, a Skycoaster and the first 3-story employee dorm....but I don't really count those additional items at all. And a new ride in 1998 would have wound up competing with KCS-MOA's new Rotoshake and Sally Blaster rides, so they spent the money on the theater instead.
Frankly, I've always avoided CP's Shot Legs since the Drops are infinitely better IMHO. But then again, I avoid the Drops on the 'stubby' towers because they're such a bore--at least when you're used to a full-sized model. I feel like I can kick tubs of fries from passing guests. Yeesh.
BTW, the newer systems actually can provide killer air--but riders wind up somewhere between 120' - 160' off the ground at the end of the cycle. Apparently CF likes to accentuate the 'bouncing' sensation on the ride, so you won't see it happen much.
-'Playa
*** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya on 4/29/2002. ***
CP's PT Drop legs are pretty weak when compared to KBF's SS. I thought you were talking about the "shot" side of PT. Yes I agree with you on that height makes all the difference on a drop, but on a shot, it makes them lukewarm at best after they get so tall.
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S W :) :) S H
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GO CARDINALS!!!
Closed topic.