Can Cp get another woodie?

Seriously though, Coastermania Magnum ERT was ridiculous.

Small parks turn to wood because they can actually afford to build one, Legend was a steal at $3 million while Hydra cost $13. Big difference there.

"I think we've all been hoping for that scenario for a long time, and frankly, if it involves tearing down Disaster Transport in the process, I'm all for it."

Regardless of opinions, this is the PERFECT place for a midsized woodie twister. I think it will happen one day. Time will tell... One of those spinning "Spyder" mouse type rides would fit there too and certainly be a reasonable cost people pleaser (I may like those things more than wooden coasters)!

So far in midsized woodie failures we have:

1. Pigeon Forge coaster (nobody remembers the name apparently or cares)

2. Hurler (Carowinds version, but I assume PKD too)

3. Gwazi

Any more out there? *** Edited 6/13/2005 8:57:16 PM UTC by Jeffrey R Smith***

I wouldn't consider any of those failures. The Pigeon Forge ride- Thunder Eagle- was probably a failure because the park it called home was a failure. Located somewhere else, that ride probably would have done very well. And how are the Hurler twins and Gwazi "failures"? Maybe I'm missing something here?

You may not be missing anything Rob. The point I'm making is that there a very few midsized woodie failures. These are the ones that have been mentioned. I can see arguments either way on #1-#3! Although I rode #1 and considered it a real stinker. They may not ne TTD, MF and KK get-em-in-the-doors market gems, but they (midsized woodies) seem to be a safe bet. I admit this is my opinion and am open to being convinced otherwise.

P.S. While I generally agree that the market guys at these big parks know what they are doing---CP in particular on subject. I must say that somebody dropped the hat on Mean Streak, SOB, Herc, Rattler, etc... They built and marketed wood coasters that are too big and fast. I believe they looked at marketability with too much emphasis and lost sight of the bigger/longer term picture. This was a huge mistake in my opinion.

Therefore, I've concluded that the market guys are not perfect. I think it is too easy to say "they know what they are doing" and leave it at that. They may be making another mistake by avoiding the midsized woodie market. I believe that the first of these parks to think outside the box and purchase a midsized woodie crowd pleasure has a good chance of getting a long term success for their park and therfore a nice raise for the guy(s) who get it through the board... :-)

If CP was able to sucessfully market a smaller, slower and shorter coaster [Wicked Twister] after building one that was taller and faster and longer [Millie] then surely they can do it again.

Right?

What exactly would you define as a failure?

The technical definition is basically something falling short of their expectations (that's my summation of the dictionary definition).

Some coasters have not delivered the ride that they most likely were designed to have due to trims, lack of proper maintenance or poor design. Is that a failure since they might not actually ride like they were initially intended? There are plenty of coasters, wooden and steel, that I'm sure aren't deliving the ride that the designers intended but I wouldn't consider them a failure.

It all comes back to expectations. The expectations of us as enthusiasts and of the parks that build them are different. We could view something as a 'failure' because it appeared on paper to be the next best thing but ended up being far from it. But if it's getting peoples butts through the turnstyles then it definately isn't a failure for the park.

I really can't think of any modern mid-sized woodies that can be called a failure for all involved. But I also am hard pressed to think of many modern coasters period that will also fit the definition. Windjammer and Drachen Fire come to mind, but even DF still has its' fans.

Now to answer the main question in the thread. I'd love to see CP get a mid-sized woodie and I think that it could eventually happen. But marketing it will be difficult for a park that has recently been giving people some of the 'est' coasters out there today. I would either like to see DT removed for a beachfront twister or MS removed for a racer with a kiddie woodie thrown in ta boot (think Stampida).

CP even managed to claim that WT was a world record somehow. I swear they cannot market anything without superlatives.

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Incidentalist said:

... and Drachen Fire come to mind, but even DF still has its' fans.

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But, even that wasn't a failure. Sure it closed earlier than it should have thanks to some bad engineering, but BGW was the first place outside of Pittsburgh that I knew even had roller coasters. That advertising alone (the Discovery and other national shows) I'm sure brought more butts through the gate than without it, making it a success to some measure.

I would say one of the bigger failures out there is Scream ... didn't SFMM's numbers go DOWN the year Scream went in?

To me Gwazi is a failure because it is a walk on when the older B&M steel rides are 30 minute waits.

I would also say that WT was a special ride since it has such a small footprint, just like Maxair does. *** Edited 6/13/2005 9:59:10 PM UTC by eightdotthree***

Here's a great example of my line of thought.

I recently visitind the Wisconsin Dells for the first time and absolutely fell in love with Avanlanche, it may just be my favorite woodie. BUT this coaster could end up being a 'failure' if it doesn't draw enough people to the park so that the park can recoup its' investment and then some.

There was no crowd when I was there and most people who were there only bought tickets for a single ride and then they were off. While I was at Mt. Olympus I met several people who had said that they had no interest in riding it because it was small and therefore in their opinion it couldn't deliver a good ride. Hopefully I talked a few people out of that thought process, but maybe not. But it definately isn't the coaster grabbing all the attention in the Dells when Mt. Olympus has Hades.

Out of all the parks I've visited I don't know if I've visited one that had more riding on a single coaster like they are at Timber Falls. I have no idea what their finances look like, but I would imagine that Avalanche was a pretty hefty sum for them to pony up on a single attraction. It's not like Timber Falls has a bunch of stuff to rely on to recoup their investments. Their attractions have to pay for themselves.

By most accounts, mine included, Avalanche is one hell of a good coaster. BUT if the people don't show up to ride it because, in all honesty, it doesn't look like a great ride to most people. Then the park might fall on hard times and be unable to operate the coaster. Would Avalanche then be a failure? By most accounts, yes. But that doesn't mean it isn't one of the best coasters I've ever ridden. So it definately isn't a failure as far as what it delivers.

Again, this is all hypothetical possibilities from a person who visited the park for the first time and had a great time but wondered how the hell it was going to be able to survive.

Wt was a record breaker, it was the tallest impulse coaster and it was the first to have twists on both ends.

Every coaster is a record breaker if you define the record to some rediculous degree. WT was the largest in a class of 5. I hardly consider that worthy of a world record claim. That would be just as silly as claiming a record for the world's largest B&M hyper, IMO.

Moosh: But beyond the superlatives (tallest, fastest double-twisting impulse coaster ON THE PLANET?) WT still offered a different ride experience than anything else in the park.

There's already a two lift-hill-and-drop-in-PTC experiences, three really-big-drop coasters, double helixes, pretzel helixes, out-and-backs, flying (sorta) through support experiences, launchers and certainly a few more elements elsewhere I haven't brought up. So, what makes a mid-sized woodie so much different than what's already at CP--in the eyes of Joe Sixpack instead of us?

-'Playa

Before they get on it? Nothing. If however the ride is like Legend, Avalanche, or Thunderhead, there will be a noticable difference that they will talk about and line up for again after they get off. The GP cannot articulate why a coaster like that is so good, but I notice a huge difference in the GP's reactions to rides like that as opposed to a normal coaster.

Playa - one word: GCI twisting dueler.

I'd call Psyclone a failure or a chiropractors dream. The biggest problem is most large parks don't know how to maintain a woodie. Texas giant, MS,Ratter and even Hurcules had decent reviews when they were new but all of them aged badly because (IMHO) of poor maintainance.

Looks like three to me! ;)

But seriously...how would Joe Sixpack differentiate the dueler from the racing Gemini?

I could (unfortunately) see them going for an Intamin woodie with the steepest vertical drop ON THE PLANET, after which we'd wait for the manufacturer to fix it. Again. Correctly.

-'Playa

*** Edited 6/14/2005 12:41:59 AM UTC by CoastaPlaya***

What the park needs to do is get rid of Disaster Transport, and then replace it with a 100' tall GCI recreation of their beloved Traver Cyclone coaster. Then they should get Intamin to build a giant plug-n-play, *steel* structured, out and back woodie that is intertwined with Maggie the whole way out. That would be my pipe dream. ;)

Wood coaster Fan Club - "Sharing a Passion for the Classics"

I don't think JSP would come to the park FOR the new wooden coaster....but if it's good, I can honestly say he might come BACK for it....

I don't see it as a one-year thing, wood doesn't have that kind of marketing punch...but good wood, that's something they'll really remember, esp. since the ride experience IS so different from anything made of steel, and a good *intense* woodie is something they don't currently have (not dissing BS, it was better-than-ever for me this year)...

Most likely offseason acquisition(s): Kiddie coaster (tallest junior invert? LOL), another big flashy flatride....Mondial Splashover, Mondial TopScan, Huss Jump2? Can ya tell I loved PCW? ;)

If I saw the boardwalk area as more of the likely expansion for '06, then I'd consider the woodie to be more of a possibility....but I really think they've got to START getting people down toward Mean Streak.....and MS itself sure wasn't drawing people there, so..... ;)

I'm equating failure with butts through gates...
I agree with everything said about Avalanche. It is probably my favorite ride, but it may be a failure if it does not put butts through gates. It was walk-on the 2 days I was there last summer...

Do midsized woodies fail to bring any butts through gates? A better figure (which we will never know) is the cost per butt (CPB). Apparently, the higher ups believe the CPB is better with large steel coasters.