Can Cp get another woodie?

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What makes Knott's and Hershey so different from Cedar Point?

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That CP already has 16 coasters and I daresay (on a coaster board, no less) that 16 coasters nearly equals doing coasters to death. For that matter, breaking height and speed records has been done to death too.

People really need to quit bringing up HW as an argument for woodies. During the most recent years of startling growth, the coasters were already there and the waterslides were bringing in the crowds. Sorry. As much fun as the woodies can be, it was Zinga, Zoombabwe, Jungle Racer and soda. Do you see the SF and CF parks rushing to build more mid-sized woodies? No. Do you see them ordering up Zinga clones? Better believe it. Proslide mat racers? You bet.

Not that they don't have a place at CP. As part of a larger expansion package, I think it would be great. But Joe Sixpack who's grown up hearing CP's 'Tallest, Fastest' mantra since he was 8 won't look at a 120-foot tall woodie on TV, choke on his brewski and fall off his La-Z-Boy. As far as he knows, he already rides one named Gemini.

-'Playa

*** Edited 6/13/2005 1:37:12 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***

Gwazi at BGT was a walk on (one side) during Halloween, but the B&M's were 30 minute waits. I would consider that a failed mid-sized woodie.

As for CP, they list their top 10 rides given.
http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/inside_park/tips_faq/faqs.cfm

#1 Raptor
#2 Magnum XL-200
#3 Gemini
#4 Iron Dragon
#5 Sky Ride
#6 C.P. & L.E. Railroad
#7 Millennium Force
#8 Corkscrew
#9 Mantis
#10 Wicked Twister

Granted, a lot can be said about capacity, but for Magnum, Gemini and Iron Dragon to be #2, 3 and 4 in the park says a lot for the longevity of the rides.

Blue Streak which is considered by most of us to be an excellant ride is a walk on, and not listed in their top 10.

Great point about Holiday World CoastaPlaya. *** Edited 6/13/2005 1:44:18 PM UTC by eightdotthree*** *** Edited 6/13/2005 1:49:04 PM UTC by eightdotthree***

For Corkscrew to rate #8 flies in the face of misconceptions about its lack of popularity.

And Iron Dragon #4? Shows how little we enthusiasts know about making the GP happy!

-'Playa

*** Edited 6/13/2005 1:50:17 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***

I wasn't saying don't pick on me, I was saying don't do what you did. If you want to discuss it like an adult, than I'll gladly explain my point further, just don't jump down my throat because you didn't agree whith what I said.

I know that everyone has their own opinions and that's fine. I'm simply stating some basic and true facts. And as for my qualifications not being up to your satandards, Coastaplayer? Who are you to say that. And besides I wasn't "throwing around my qualifications" like yyou said, I was simply making the point that I do know a thing or two about structures, I'm not one of these 8 year olds that use this site and act like they know everything there is to know about coasters. I'm not saying that I've got a PHD in engineering, know everything about coasters, or anything like that so back off. I'm stating from my own personal expirence and the things that I know for fact. You can't tell me that it's easier to weld a piece of steel in than to take a piece of wood out and nail it in (not that it that easy to fix a coaster, that's just a generalization of the idea be hind it) . I was simply stating that a wooden coaster can last longer than a steel coaster because of that. You can't exactly call up Aarow or B&M and request a replacement piece of track and have it the next day, but you can go to the lumber yard and pick up some new 2x12's and do some repairs uvernight if need be.

As for your comment "I see more college students with less actual knowledge than you can possibly imagine", yea there a lot of college kids that think they know a lot more about things than they do.

The thing is I wouldn't post something I wouldn't admit I said later. I still agree with everything I said, and will stand behind what I said. Though, maybe putting in there "Why do I feel I have the right to make these statements? was a bad idea.

Anyway, how did this topic get onto such a wood vs. steel debate anyhow? The topic was "Can Cp get another woodie?" and it got completely off track (no pun intended). I would love to CP get another woodie. Even if it isn't up there in the top ten, I'll still ride it. I've been riding coasters my whole life and have yet to find one that I can't enjoy. If you can honestly tell me that there is not a single good thing about MS, SOB, or Herc., than there is something wrong. Every coaster has it's good and bad points, but if you are stuck in a rut thinking about the bad points, then you'll never see the good that the ride has to offer. So what if i't's rough, it can still be a fun ride. Do I agree the so called CF idea that "If you trim it, it'll fix any problems"? No. Just give the rides a chance.

It got to be wood vs steel becuase CP favors steel and the wood fans don't get why.

You're soo vain....you probably think my post is about you, don't you? It wasn't. Brian Noble's was.

But you DID click on his sig link, right? When he talked about college students without a clue, he'd know...

-CO

*** Edited 6/13/2005 2:46:40 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***

Sorry CoastaPlaya, I ment to say Brian Noble. His post was above yours and I read the wrong name. My mistake and I apoligize to you about that.

No biggie on the mistake. Nonetheless, I do have to agree with him that some schooling doesn't make you an expert.

It's not as if parks can't hire people with fabricating experience to maintain steelwork OR conversely, that some parks contract out maintenance and especially major rehabs on their 'simple to fix' woodies.

Furthermore, there's plenty of folks who actually do this for a living that have to go back and make corrections on their designs, both of steel and wood.

So there's obviously a little more to this than a couple 2' x 12's and a hammer...

-'Playa

*** Edited 6/13/2005 3:12:24 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***

For the record: I never once took issue with what you said. I took issue with the way you said it. If you want to pull out the expert card, don't pussyfoot around with it. Use both barrels. But, first be sure that you are an expert. Having an opinion that you believe is not the same thing as having a good reason to believe it.

As for contracting out wood maintenance: it would seem that Cedar Fair has gotten the idea that the Canadians do things right.

Edited to add: now that 'Playa has reminded me that I have a home page, it occurs to me that I need to clean it up.

*** Edited 6/13/2005 3:21:30 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

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eightdotthree said:
It got to be wood vs steel becuase CP favors steel and the wood fans don't get why.

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Give it a rest. You're the one that always insists on making it an issue of the "wood fans" versus everybody else. That's not what it is at all- it's a debate over why CP doesn't add another wood coaster. Don't make it something that it's not.

Again CoastaPlaya, it was a generalization, I know there's a lot more to it than that.

Brian, I wasn't playing the expert card. I was just stating my opinion and maybe I came across as trying to play the expert card but that's not what I was going for. Yea I know there are people that do this for a living and that there is more to it than what I know and everything. *** Edited 6/13/2005 3:43:29 PM UTC by coasterguytob***

8.3: As if woodies are gonna gonna dry up and blow away because CP doesn't add one. Hardly!

I'd almost prefer they didn't. What are they gonna do? Build a Hades? An Avalanche? A Boulder Dash? A HW '06? Something with half as much originality? I think not.

But it would be nice.

-'Playa

*** Edited 6/13/2005 3:43:03 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***

The thing is, with the resources that Cedar Fair has, they could build some fantastic wood coasters and maintain them the way they should be maintained. A GCII racer probably isn't within reach for many parks (look at the size of the two parks that have built them so far) but CF could easily build one at CP and it would be an unquestionable hit. Maybe some of the frustration has to do with "wasted potential"?

M-V know what they're doing, NO doubt in my mind. Cypress' junior wood only served to reinforce that. Every ride they touch seems to turn into pure gold....well, for a while at least. You could have Cheetah running like Legend for a coule days, but without a Hammersly to KEEP it that way, it's still a temporary fix.

Gwazi resembles that remark perfectly. Busch wouldn't know a round wheel from a square hole, so I get the good rides on Gwazi...while the getting is good.

Contracting out wood coaster REPAIRS and rehabs is fine when it's needed, but without someone who "knows wood" like Homer Formby, you can't KEEP people excited about riding wood. And, short of RoS or PR (or an Anton), there's NO way I'm going to be doing a 3-hour marathon on a steel coaster like I just did on Rampage...

coasterguytob: But if your point is indeed true, why have so many 'easy to maintain' woodies been built with steel supports instead? And why have small parks been so quick to opt for them at that?

-'Playa

If you look at the supports that are used in that situation, it's angle iron. The way there bolted together, it's easy to replace them. But as far as like a Aarow, Vekoma or B&M type steel, it's not that easy. Plus with the steel supports, you can do the steeper, higher banked wooden coasters that you can't do with the wooden supports. I mean look at Hades 90 deg banking on a wood coaster wouldn't have even been considered 10 years ago. Either way a wood track coaster gives a different ride then steel tracks. Even a wood track on wood supports and a wood track on steel supports give different rides. *** Edited 6/13/2005 4:06:24 PM UTC by coasterguytob***

Hold on, when did I ever say woodies are going away if CP doesn't build them? I hope they will always have their place. And don't think for a minute that I don't love them either, my entire summer trip is planned around riding great woodies, Kings Island, Indiana Beach, Holiday World, The Dells...I love them as much as the rest of you.

They could build a new woodie, but why would they want to when, with the exception of TTD the big bad steel coasters that draw require much less tlc. Thats my stance.

I want a woodie, but recognize they probably aren't going to get one.

That's what I'm not so sure about. Are steel coasters really cheaper to maintain than wood coasters in the long run? Many new wood coasters do not require major work done until well into their lives, thanks to improved construction techniques and pressure treated lumber (Lightning Racer has supposedly seen NO wood or track since it was built and that ride is in its sixth season). Not only that, but I'm sure that major work on a steel coaster is a lot more costly than major work on a wood coaster- replacing ten feet of wood coaster track is probably exponentially cheaper and easier than replacing ten feet of steel coaster track.

If wood coasters were really so tough to maintain, why do most small parks look to wood when it comes time for big league impact (Holiday World, Indiana Beach, Michigan's Adventure, Waldameer, Pavilion, Funtown USA, Visionland, Jazzland/SFNO, Wild Adventures, Morey's Piers...)?

By the way, have you ever been to Indiana Beach? That place, even without the wood coasters, is downright incredible... one of the nation's unspoken amusement gems!

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Rob Ascough said:
Magnum, Draggin' Iron, Cedar Creek Mine Ride, Corkscrew- those rides aren't "as good" as they once were. They're old. They're either slow or they bang you around.

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That's odd, because generally the same people around here that would tell you they love wood coasters would take Magnum over any other ride at the park. In fact, I'd guess that anyone that got to ride Magnum the night of Coastermania would not call it old or slow. You're entitled to your opinion I suppose, but it sure sounds like an unfounded generalization to me.

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dexter said:
Wouldn't it be amazing if CP marketed their hypothetical NEW wood coaster as a classic and a return to nostalgic times. It could be twister style to differentiate it from the Two other woodies.

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I think we've all been hoping for that scenario for a long time, and frankly, if it involves tearing down Disaster Transport in the process, I'm all for it.

Disaster is just that in more ways than one. Even if there were a "good" ride inside that monstrosity of a building I would still consider it a disaster because it disrupts what could be one of the best views of all amusement parks.

That boardwalk area and the view of the lake should be an asset but the Disaster structure completely obliterates the area.

I have often thought that Avalanche Run turned into Disaster because Mr. Kinzel (or Mrs. Kinzel for that matter) didn't like the sound of the ride vehicles distrubing their ambient back yard.