Can Cp get another woodie?
Jeff said:
See, every time this comes up, y'all need to get up in my grill and start name calling and being generally ridiculous.
You put "y'all" and "in my grill" dangerously close together.
You honestly think that Mean Streak and Herc and SoB were intentionally built to be crap? You honestly think that every ride that is ever built is not intended to be a "good ride"? You really will twist any fact to make your point of view seem correct. You should be a Republican! But I digress ...
For the third time, I will try and explain things in business sense, Wall Street, and other aspects of the amusement park world that you Thrillerman, have decided long ago don't exist because "st33l suxors, wood iz da onl33 1 that rulz!!111oneone!!1 what happened to 1950, whaaaaaa"
No one puts $2-$5 or even $15 in the case of a non-record breaking steel, million into an investment which shareholders are looking at to give them a return into their own pockets and doesn't expect that investment to be a good ride. No one goes to IAAPA or whatever other place you go to look for new rides and says "Eh, well since we're Cedar Point, I think we should spend some money on something that sucks, cause we need to make sure that steel is the dominant coaster type." The investors would hang them in the streets! To think that is absolutely ludicrious.
EVERY SINGLE RIDE that is concieved and built is thought to be a great ride. Some don't come out that way, many do. What guarentee can you offer that a wooden coaster, built by the hard work, blood sweat and tears of CP, GCI, M/V and all the other players that would go into it, would be awesome? Absolutely none! In fact, I'd go so far as to say that it's more likely to be a sucky sub-par ride because GCI's had an amazing streak of luck! Nothing is 100%, eventually they're going to fail, I don't wish it on them, but the odds are piling up against them. One of their rides is going to come out and it's just not going to have the umph of the others.
And if that happens, then what? Now you have two major parks within a few hundred miles of each other that got majorly burned on their investment in wooden coasters. You think you'd see either one try it again? They might try, but the investors would ride them out so fast they wouldn't know what hit 'em!
How can you say wood has more longetivity than steel, did you fail out of high school chemistry or something? You do realize that wood is biodegradable, food for bugs, easily flammable, etc. Steel is not edible, not easily flammable, and it's biggest problem is rust which equates to biodegrading/molding/rotting wood. So from a purely chemical and material properties standpoint, no wood does not have more longetivity. Has it ever occured to you in your reactionist, insane mind that the reason there are only wood coasters that have lasted 80 years, and not steel, might be because steel manufacturing wasn't refined enough to allow the creation of steel roller coasters until the 1960s? In case your head is spinning too fast right now to do the math, that's only 45 years ago, tops, so how exactly do you propose to know that wood has better longetivity than steel?
You're probably going to bring up something like Shockwave. I'll counter that with Crystal Beach Cyclone. Both intense. Both overly intense. Both gone. Still haven't proven your point.
How do you know KK and TTD won't be around in 2085? I don't think they will be, but I think that has a heck of a lot more to do with operational ability than thrills. The more accurate comparison, is where will Magnum be in 2075? Where will Phantom's Revenge be in 2075? But, oh wait, those are just "low-tech" steel coasters that do nothing more than wood coaster (ie - lift hill, followed by hills, twists and turns before back to the station) so they disprove your argument. Well forget I mentioned them, I wouldn't want your head to explode having to consider that steel construction might have some merit.
And you say that concrete jungleland doesn't give wooden coasters a fair shot? How exactly do you propose to do that? Tear down Millennium, Dragster, Magnum and Wicked Twister so that the high thrill machines are gone, and the wooden coasters can compare in what matters most to John Q Public, how high it is? Yea, that'll pump the people through the door. There is one place that gives 'em a fair shot, and you won't give it a second thought. Hersheypark puts two great wooden coasters against a collection of steel every day, and they both co-exist peacefully. The steels don't sit there dead quiet while people flock to the wood, and neither is the reverse true. I hate to ruin your coveted "if wood had a chance, there'd never be a steel coaster again!" attitude, but your "ideal" place exists, and guess what, steel ain't dead there.
So in deference to you, we'll ignore that Hersheypark even exists because if it did, you'd have to see shades of grey in your black and white universe and I think your head would explode.
Please explain how they diminish the classic wooden coaster at Cedar Point when they haven't removed any classic wooden coasters in my lifetime? Diminish means to take away, so, if the pubilc really does like wooden coasters, and if wooden coasters really can stand up to steel in terms of thrills, then the only way to diminish them would be to remove them. What classic wooden coaster has Cedar Point removed lately, hmm? You're talking in circles and trying to sound like you know something, but all your doing is disproving your own points.
Finally, and this is the kicker of the whole argument, please explain how you would present to the investors of Cedar Fair (like me), that a wooden coaster built at Cedar Point is GUARENTEED to be something that will be the best, and not a giant waste of money like that pile of kindling in southern Ohio?
--Brett, who loves Lightning Racer, Wildcat, Nitro, S:RoS, MF, WT, and Thunderbolt
http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com/news/archives/2002/stories/012102_02.shtml
is a link (there are tons more but I don’t have the time to spell it out). You can call it small all you want, but it is one of the largest attended parks in this country every year. Furthermore, I don’t buy into the opinion that Ghostrider is an outlier. It is flat out a good ride. In my opinion, none of the parks that some of you consider LARGE have a wood coaster even half as good as Ghostrider (or Legend, or Raven, or Phoenix, etc). We can argue all day long about why, but I believe there is validity in the point that the "larger parks" have tried way too hard to be the tallest and fastest which, as we have seen, is a rather flawed policy when it comes to wood. A GOOD ride whether wood or steel will bring people to the park. CP has plenty of GREAT steel coasters. It seems logical to conclude that a GREAT wood coaster would balance the experience. I can understand why they would be hesitant after so badly screwing up on Mean Streak. I'm sure that they will one day get back into the wooden market and do a much better job. Their record speaks for itself. This is my opinion.
I see no reason to diminish an opposing opinion by bashing enthusiasts as out-of-touch. Am I the only one that finds it a bit amusing that a coaster board administrator is always one of the first to bash enthusiasts? In my opinion, nothing this side of the iron-patched-Beast-logo on a ripped jean jacket says I’M A COASTER GEEK more than starting a website dedicated to a park and/or club! Maybe guys like me who actually bother to contribute to such geekness are equally DORK (this is meant with good humor Jeff---if you have a sense of humor). Laugh it off if you’re capable! :-)
I won’t bother responded to tree-hugging and Republican bashing. I know a troll when I see one. Though easy to mock and ridicule (and often such fun), I’ll take the high road and let the angry troll shoot himself in the foot.
*** Edited 6/11/2005 10:39:48 PM UTC by Jeffrey R Smith***
I'll won't use your same tone here so you can understand how I feel about Maggie and Steel Phantom. But I'll tell you that those two coasters are by far my favorite steel coasters. Why, because they imitate classic wood coaster action and dynamics. And for the record, they are not *low tech* rides by any means either. Those were your words, not mine. But I get the impression that you think that wood coasters are low tech commodities by your comments and tone throughout this thread, and website for that matter. Fine....your wrong again, but I won't throw insults at you and say things like, "I hope your head doesn't explode"!
I wasn't trying to attack you Brett, I just disagree with what you say. I might have been a little miffed because, as you said about me, you seem to have an all out hatred for anything made of wood and if someone tells you that they like wood coasters better, your quick to start spewing insults at them, like you did to me. I don't posses a hatred for metal rides. I just don't think they have the charm or character woodies do.
The same exact thing applies to the Wood Coaster Fan Club. The WCFC doesn't hate steel coasters, we PREFER to talk about wood coasters and support parks that have and maintain them. What is wrong with that? You might be shocked to find out that the WCFC was at Kennywood recently riding Phantom's Revenge, and raving about it. We all agree it is very underrated compared to what's in Sandusky.
I know you went to school for engineering Brett. I was in school for the same major, but due to the untimely death of my father last year, (he was a prominant attorney here in Akron, who also served as chairman of the Democratic Party in Ohio for several years during the late 1960"s and also was on the Summit county board of elections) I had to put school on hold for now. I work as a carpenter and have done various types of construction work most of my adult life. I've even worked with metal: ie. nails, bolts, steel plates, joist hangers, hammers, pliers, framing and speed squares, boltcutters, spud bars, and various other metal tools and objects. But I have an appreciation for wood and what can be crafted from it. Sure it rots, but steel has its limitations too. One isn't better than the other, but they can sure compliment each other when properly used together.
You can spin anything that someone else says here into anything you want. Just remember I'll be here to correct your misinformation as to the popularity, longevity, and quality, wooden roller coasters will continue to provide far in the future.
Wood Coaster Fan Club - "Sharing a Passion for the Classics" *** Edited 6/12/2005 12:05:45 AM UTC by Thrillerman***
Thrillerman said:
One isn't better than the other, but they can sure compliment each other when properly used together.Thats the idea i was thinking of. They need some diversity in their coasters and what cant compliment a bunch of steel but a few woodies. Two just isnt enough.
As far as MaXair goes so far it looks like a winner, but you cant count on the fact that is bringing people in to the park.
Resident Arrow Dynamics Whore
1.) How can you say that steel coasters have no longevity, claiming that an 80 year old wooden coaster and no steel coaster with an age close to that is your main basis for that claim, when there hasn't been a steel coaster that has even had a chance to last 80 years?
2.) If the public truly enjoys wooden coasters, and if wooden coasters can truly stand up just fine against monstorous steel coasters, then why when Cedar Point has not removed a single wooden coaster in my lifetime, is Cedar Point guilty of diminishing wooden coasters?
3.) You said: "They weren't built to be the best", how can you possibly claim that a company would have spent that much money on something that was built to be crap?
4.) How can you guarentee that Cedar Point will be able to build a wooden coaster that will be the best, as you claim they are able to do?
Awhile ago in Rollercoaster Magazine, Randy Geisler wrote an article titled "A steel coaster is like a VCR". In it, he used the comparison stating that steel coasters are more disposable as they become obsolete with newer technologies. He said that the latest steel coasters are just like a VCR (or DVD) that sits on your TV and looks nice with all it's capabilities and little bells and whisles latest tricks attached to it. A wood coaster is more like that cherished classic painting that hangs on your wall in the living room becuase it's art. It's probably been there for years and may begin to get a little dusty or show signs of age, but you still appreciate it for what it represents. When that VCR breaks or becomes obsolete, you simply discard it and get another one that's even fancier than the one you just threw away. But it's not likely you'll discard a cherished classic painting. You don't loose appreciation for it as easily.
2. First I should say that when I used the term diminish, I was speaking figuratively about the wooden coasters reputation in general. Cedar Point isn't helping to create a positive image of the wooden coaster in Sandusky. At least not with Mean Streak in it's current condition. Nobody seems to remember poor little Blue Streak 'round here when you ask them about wood coasters. Many times I've brought up wooden coasters to people when conversation turns that way, and Cedar Point almost always comes up. Then they will usually say something like, "I don't like wood coasters because the last time I was at Cedar Point and rode Mean Streak, it hurt me it was so rough." Or something along those exact lines. Not even mentioning the blue Streak. It really frustrates me. They won't even install a small wood coaster for the lil' tikes. They have two steel ones for 'em though. How is that fair and balanced towards wood coasters in the greatest park on the planet!!
Also, it is a pretty well known fact that Gemini was originally going to be a wood coaster. PTC wasn't designing wood anymore, so Arrow was asked to buil;d the ride. Ron Toomer stepped up to the plate with the mine train system for the design. Incidently, at the time the park was trying to aleviate long lines at the Blue Streak which was the parks signature attraction. It really didn't work though because Blue Streak wasn't eclipsed until Magnum debuted in '89.
3.Those coasters you sited were never built and marketed as the best. They were all built as record breaking rides with the ensueing stigma that they would also be the best, attached. But first and foremost, those three coasters were built to be the biggest and fastest...not the best. Certain parks have even told me that they can't market a ride unless it is billed as such. Someone in the business once told me about a certain park and it's wishes to build a looping woodie. A certain builder said they would do the job and gave this park the basic size and height of the coaster. The park didn't want the coaster because it wasn't tall enough and the builder refused to go any higher for the sake of quality. Heck, even John Allen and other designers have tried to tell theme parks that the higher you go with wood, the more trouble your asking for. He even stated that he couldn't even guarantee it would be a good solid ride. At least I know he told Marriott this because it's in an interview I have with him. He also said, "They only wanted it because it would be the highest and fastest. I told them it wouldn't be a good ride either. I told them I'm not going to do it". He didn't like building rides over 100 feet at the time. That was around thirty years ago before he passed away. I know that with todays technology, we can push that number a little more. But building rides only because they are the fastest and highest, is only building them for the wrong reason. Corporations need to understand that, and so does the general public if that's all they really want.
4. It's pretty easy really. Gravity Group, Great Coasters, and now S&S are building fantastic rides that are blowing away many of our classic old traditional coasters. Wooden coasters have once again stepped up to the plate and become mainstay thrilling signature attractions. Even the smaller wooden coasters have proven how much fun they can be. Just look at CornBall Express. (A family coaster designed for the Addams Family) Mainly I know this is possible because a lot of the guess work in calculating the designs has been eliminated. Gauranteed it's not 100 percent, but nothing is. Even when your trying to build the best steel coaster, it isn't. But if you (a park) go out and search for a really good wood coaster (which there are plenty of scattered around the country) and hire one of these firms to build/design the type of wood coaster you want, and tell them you want a world class thriller that's fun and exciting as the conceptual ride is, you'll more than likely get it. I'd be willing to bet anything that it wouldn't be anything but a great ride from one of these firms. It doesn't have to be 200 or 300 feet high to be the best, it just has to be thrilling and have action all the way through. That's something Curtis Summers never figured out with his rides.
Oh and for the record....I love Hersheypark!! You're right, they do have a nice mix of rides. Great Bear is an excellent inverted coaster. Storm runner is what TTD and KK should've been more like. And the two GCI woodies and a classic 1940's Schmeck (that's a little overbraked) are pure fun with variety. A good balanced mix of both new and old coasters. A great amusement park!!
Wood Coaster Fan Club - "Sharing a Passion for the Classics" *** Edited 6/12/2005 3:40:01 PM UTC by Thrillerman***
Also, I think it is pretty silly to say that GCII is bound to fail. B&M hasn't produced a bad ride in the past 10 years. Sure, some are more popular than others, but they are all popular.
*** Edited 6/12/2005 4:53:53 PM UTC by Word***
Do you know something about Magnum, Iron Dragon, Wildcat, Gemini, Mine Ride and Corkscrew that I don't? If Magnum isn't lasting, I wonder why they're painting it.
rollergator said:
Most steel coasters will last 15-20 years maximum (Antons excepted, LOL), and most business models certainly won't look any further than that.
And that statement is nothing like name calling. Whatever, dude.
Rob Ascough said:
Yeah, I called Jeff on his comment, yet I never called him a name or insinuated that he should take my questioning of him as a personal attack. It's not my fault he can't handle people disagreeing with him.
I agree with you to a point, but they're really research driven, and they haven't added a dud that didn't get the attention they wanted as far back as I can remember. As for the family thing, let's not forget it was only a few years ago that they added an entirely new kids section and an ice show.
Beast Fan said:
My feeling is that any steel coaster that they add, is going to be more of the same and not a new experience... Also I think they have catered enough to the thrill market, it might be time to add an attraction the whole family can go on.
I see all of this criticism of the park (and even PKI) for their wood investments, or lack thereof, but I'd invite anyone to get back to me when either park's attendance drops below 3 million after adding a new steel ride. Then you can make a business case for trying something different.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
I certainly appreciate your taste in coasters. We could hang and have a great time...
To all the haters... :-)
I agree that marketing a wooden coaster is way more difficult. If it was my money, I would certainly be careful with my investment. I’m sure CP (Jeff’s take) is valid on many planes of thought. However, I also believe the thought that it is not cost-effective to build a midsize wooden coaster COULD be a shortsighted mistake. In the long run, it seems that most of these smaller to mid-size woodies have been hits.
This may be for another topic/thread...but when was the last time a mid-size (less than 125') woodie has failed in terms of popularity for any park? I can remember that one in Pigeon Forge (I forget the name) that has since been moved. It was a terribly boring ride in my opinion. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another.
This is meant to be thought provoking and not necessarily argumentative. However, I seriously think it is a good point. List away the small to midsize woodie failures we've had in the last 10-20 years at ANY park. I do love wooden coasters and am biased toward them, but I strive to keep it objective. All the wooden failures we talk about are of the GIANT wood variety. Give me some midsize failures…
P.S. Only time will tell. I can’t help but think that one of these days these LARGE parks will make the leap of faith and get back to a midsize wooden thriller with running lights and airtime…
Thrillerman said:
Oh and for the record....I love Hersheypark!! You're right, they do have a nice mix of rides. Great Bear is an excellent inverted coaster. Storm runner is what TTD and KK should've been more like. And the two GCI woodies and a classic 1940's Schmeck (that's a little overbraked) are pure fun with variety. A good balanced mix of both new and old coasters. A great amusement park!!
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Comet's been slowed down a bit much. I remember it as being much wilder and out of control than it was last year when I went back to Hersheypark.
As to steel coasters not lasting as long as woodies, the first Arrow and Schwartzkopf loopers are coming up on thirty years old and in the case of some (Loch Ness Monster, f'rex) I see no real immediate reason (or inclination) to "taer it down!!!"
And how, pray tell, do you expect to get people to believe that a wooden coaster that is far from the tallest and far from the fastest is good enough to travel to ride? The public at large will not be convinced by anything short of direct word-of-mouth, while coasters like MF and TTD only needed a TV spot and a few pictures.
Jeffrey R Smith said:
Wood seems to really hurt Holiday World...? I don't seem to understand the line of thinking that believes the GP does not like wood. I think wood is like any steel coaster. Build a good ride and people will come.
I don't expect to see a wooden coaster anytime soon at Cedar Point because their goal is building star attractions to pull as many people as possible through the gates. What a wooden coaster could provide is something to keep the crowds coming back after they've eventually ridden it, but it certainly won't pull people into the park in the first place. *** Edited 6/13/2005 3:05:20 AM UTC by _ian***
And that's just it... Cedar Point is obviously reaching out to a larger audience this year and pushing the resort angle harder and harder. If you put The Legend itself on that property, and I lived more than three hours away, you'd have a hard time convincing me to go there as a general tourist.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
I would like to look at Holiday's research to see what Raven did for them. I'm sure it helped bring people a lot farther than pre-Raven days. Maven---any stuff you can share? :-) Of course not as much as a TTD---but I'd still like to know the benefit/cost ratio. I was in school at Evansville when Raven was built (94 or 95?). My classmates and I made multiple trips---and it was NOT for the waterpark. Though the waterpark kept us coming back. It was little old rickety Raven that got the buzz going for people who did not even know the park was there.
Just for fun...can we think of midsized wooden failures in the last 10-15 (even 20) years? I could argue that in terms of "stinker" factor, a good midsize woodie has one of the better records out there this side of those "Spider" type spinning mice. Which, by the way, dollar for dollar has to be the greatest investment any park can make in my opinion...
As for the cost aspect of the situation, yea wood coasters are cheaper to build than steel. (I don’t know how many people have ever looked into the cost of steel, but it isn’t cheap and prices are always going up, the cost of wood is a relative constant. The cost 2x4’s doesn’t vary that much from week to week.) Steel are cheaper to maintain. The daily maintenance on a steel coaster is like a third of that of a wood coaster. A piece of steel when properly maintained will out last a piece of wood any day (hence the use of steel C-Channel 2x4’s now being used in construction.) but it’s a lot easier to replace some wood tracking or a support on a wood coaster than it is on a steel coaster. That’s how Leap the Dipps has lasted more than 100 years. It was completely restored a few years ago. You can’t really redo a steel coaster like that, look at Space Mountain. That restore involved shutting down and taking the whole ride for an extended period of time, whereas a wood coaster can be re-tracked and supports replaced over a winter not disrupting the operation of the ride. Face it, it’s easier to take some 4x4’s, some bolts, nuts, washers, and nails out and do a repair compared to dragging out the welding tanks and tourches.
Why do I feel I have the right to make these statements? I’m in college for civil engineering focusing on the structural aspect. I’ve done construction work. I‘ve used both steel and wood and am very familiar with the advantages and disadvantages and properties of both materials (steel may be stronger, but it’s also a lot heaver). I’m just stating my educated opinion so please don’t go almighty and start reaming me for this.
I just thought I’d add my $0.02 *** Edited 6/13/2005 4:44:14 AM UTC by coasterguytob***
I used to think anything less than 70 percent was a failing grade. Why aren't you calling those mfrs out on the carpet for creating "failures?" Or is it that in our style over substance society, we prefer things that look good or claim to be bigger/faster/better but don't actually have to run to prove it?
But even looking beyond "the big guys," which coaster did Knoebels' remove from its lineup this year? Umm, I believe it was the crappy steel one, which I never saw more than 6 people ride at one time, while the wooden coasters continue to have decent sized lines and run full trains. But then, I suppose the GP of central/NEPA is not as "sophisticated" as the GP of Ohio's North Coast.
Regarding the issue of longevity, I don't think anyone expects that every piece of wood installed on a wooden coaster has to remain there forever. But let's look at it another way-- look at the lineup in Hersheypark. (Yeah I know we're supposed to pretend it doesn't exist for the sake of this debate--- good way to win an argument, stipulate that anything that disproves your argument can't be used. Let's add that gem to the American justice system.) On any given day, 60-year old lowly low-tech wooden Comet has much longer lines than the 70's steelies Trailblazer and SDL.
Even looking beyond (non-existent) Hersheypark, it's pretty apparent that the older generation of steel coasters are not that popular... CP's Corkscrew, all the Boomerangs, almost every standup, just off the top of my head. Don't believe me? Then head over to the TR section. Compare the reviews people give to the old low-tech coasters like Phoenix (almost 60 years old itself) vs. any of those rides mentioned above. Even boring old Comet gets better grades than most of them.
Steel as a building material may last longer than wood, but as far as coaster life, it's apparent that a good wooden coaster will continue to draw riders for decades. Many steel coasters aren't maintaining interest for nearly so long. Look at the bashing Hydra's taken in here already and it's been operating for all of a month (ONLY 100' tall, not intense enough, etc.)
So while wooden coasters have to be maintained, steel ones might have to be replaced within 20-25 years to provide newer and bigger (and way more expensive) thrills. Maybe more often than that the way things keep progressing. Tell me what park spends tens of millions every other year on maintaining their wooden coasters. How long will parks be able to make investments in steel coasters that will be well over 20 million at a minimum?
Wooden coasters, while making technological improvements, are basically doing the same things they've been doing for decades. They're even reaching back into their past for ideas (Knoebels Twister for example). Does anyone really think that 20 years from now, some mfr or park is going to say, "Hey let's bring back some steel coaster from 1972?" And do you think the GP will knock themselves out running to that queue?
It's a big deal and there's a lot of concern when it appears that a wooden coaster will be lost (e.g., Starliner-- hope I got that one right). No one gives a rat's ass if a park announces it's taking out its Boomerang.
This much I will grant you: if CP asks the people "Do you want us to put in another coaster like this (pointing to MF) or like this (pointing to MS), well it's pretty obvious what the GP will say. And it will be pretty hard to get the GP interested in more wooden coasters if a majority of the people on a site for coaster enthusiasts have a bug up their asses over the whole concept. If it's not your cup of tea, fine. This is America, you have the right to your opinion. Just don't go postal on someone who doesn't share the same opinions you do-- with my apologies to the USPS and its employees.
It's pretty ironic that some of the same people who are here tossing about terms like "business decisions" "marketing surveys" "what the people want" blah, blah, blah... are the same ones who have complained in other threads about how CP is disrespecting its past, lost that family feel, doesn't have a band organ, more blah, blah, blah. Can't have it both ways, folks.
I didn't intend this post to veer off into a wood vs. steel debate. However, since so many of the previous posts were that hardly anyone cares about wooden coasters, I had to insert my 02/100 of a dollar. And just to save the exertion on your fingers, don't even bother including in your reply that I hate steel, or I'll have to shove a shard of metal from TTD somewhere on you where the sun don't shine.
And I agree 100%.
I am very sad with the way these atrocities like SOB and MS (I happen to like MS a little, by the way) have impacted the public opinions about the wood coaster. On the other hand though, maybe it isn't as bad as we think because, after all, some people who have been on good wood can have the opinion that a wood coaster is fun also.
Maybe we are reading to much into a negative or positive opinion about wood, is all I'm saying. Maybe the GP's opinion of wood is niether positive or negitive, rather the opinion is all about how fun the ride is.
Wouldn't it be amazing if CP marketed their hypothetical NEW wood coaster as a classic and a return to nostalgic times. It could be twister style to differentiate it from the Two other woodies.
So yes, I am sure they can get another woodie, maybe even a few, and as long as they were not too similar to the wood already in the park, I see it as a very good idea. They would have to get creative with their marketing (lol), that's all.
Jeff said:
Do you know something about Magnum, Iron Dragon, Wildcat, Gemini, Mine Ride and Corkscrew that I don't? If Magnum isn't lasting, I wonder why they're painting it.
Even though I'll probably be accused of picking on Jeff since I am quoting him to disagree (blasphemy, I know), this is to support the point made above by RatherGoodBear.
Steel coasters, from a material standpoint, are designed to last a lot more than 15 or 20 years- you don't see many steel coasters being removed because they are rusting apart (Camden's Thunderbolt Express is an exception). Older steel coasters are being removed because they simply aren't as popular as they once were.
Magnum, Draggin' Iron, Cedar Creek Mine Ride, Corkscrew- those rides aren't "as good" as they once were. They're old. They're either slow or they bang you around. In today's Cedar Point where Raptor, Millennium Force and TTD are the headlining attractions, those four rides just don't cut it with most riders. Steel is a great medium when it comes to innovation but the downside is that it's extremely easy to innovate some more and make yesterday's landmark attractions look weak and outdated.
Wood coasters, for the most part, are just as popular decades down the road. The Comet is one of the most popular attractions at Hersheypark and I'm going to bet that Ghostrider is one of Knott's most popular attractions in 2058, long after Xcelerator and Silver Bullet are probably faint memories. And let's not continue this crap about those parks "not being comparable to Cedar Point" because I fail to see how that's possible. What makes Knott's and Hershey so different from Cedar Point?
Will anybody start listing the small to midsized woodie failures? I'm curious as to what others think are failures in the midsized market. Maybe the Hurlers? Were they failures? Do people still ride them? I have not been to either park the last 4-5 years to see.
*** Edited 6/13/2005 1:26:49 PM UTC by Jeffrey R Smith***
Edited to add:
Why do I feel I have the right to make these statements? I’m in college for civil engineering focusing on the structural aspect. I’ve done construction work. I‘ve used both steel and wood and am very familiar with the advantages and disadvantages and properties of both materials (steel may be stronger, but it’s also a lot heaver). I’m just stating my educated opinion so please don’t go almighty and start reaming me for this.
If you are going to self-righteously start throwing around your qualifications (which, frankly, aren't that impressive---I see more college students with less actual knowledge than you can possibly imagine) you absolutely CANNOT end with such a weak "please don't pick on me" statement. Either you are an expert or you are not. Experts don't apologize for being experts. *** Edited 6/13/2005 1:39:07 PM UTC by Brian Noble***
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