Wicked Twister
Jeff said:
Koaster King said:
"This is how they could have reasonably done it if they didn't necessarily care about the record too much:
2 normal impulses maybe 200'
2 twisted impulses at 181'
This would lower amount of track needed and train cars needed which should reduce cost to about $17 million for the entire addition including Snoopy, etc."So now you're getting quotes from Intamin and a hundred feet of track can shave millions off the cost of the ride. Whatever... now you're just making stuff up and I'm done talking about it. Anyone who says they don't care in one breath but stays up all night talking about it can't be reasoned with.
My goodness who looked at you the wrong way this evening? Can't I just make a prediction of where I think the coast would be? I'm sure if CP bought two that would shave some off their and then like I said, reducing track having to be made, train size, etc. should cut the costs. Like I said again, I'm not the expert and evidently think you are, so you're the one that can't be reasoned with not me. And staying up half the night? I was on here like 12:30 am to 3 or so. I had been asleep since 6:30 or so that after noon so it was time to get up and do something and at that time, there's not a whole lot. This is another one of you're contradicting connents as well, because you were up fairly late as well, and I didn't even talk about it past responding to you!If someone responds to me and turns everything around, I respond, because most likely they just didn't get it the first time. Obviously, this is true once again as I said that I didn't care what CP got, because I can get it somewhere else. This thread asked if we thought it was a good business decision and I responded accordingly.
I definitely think some of you have lost the meaning of opinion, have you not?
[edit] Ok maybe not caring at all would be a little exaggeration, because I do care to an extent although if you asked me if this would be good for a Universal park, a Busch park, or a Disney park, I would have given you the same exact answers and probobly would have been more intense in the conversation due to their capacity's needed, etc.Bernard said:
Koaster King said:
What would have been the best business decision IMHO for CP in 2002? 2 Intamin Impulses!! Oh, and a different name.
Well, I like impulses. But the best decision I thought was that wonderful "Flat Ride" your precious, incomparable park is getting, Koaster King. Everyone so eager to ride that one <rollin eyes>
What park? I have a park!?!? I'll just assume you're talking about PKI, since Dorney and WOF are definitely not my parks and I don't know who else is gettting flat rides. I don't believe the flat ride thing yet because my friend has information saying that it's not from an interview with Jeff Siebert and it's never 100% until I see a PR. If it is a flat ride, I'm not eager to ride it at all!! I'm scared to death of flat rides, but I'll definitely try to enjoy the theming as much as possible. You might need to get those eyes checked as well.
Most of you look like you hear only what you want to and miss everything else I say. Please don't do that. Like I've said before, at time of posting/ starting a conversation, I always mean and never regret what I say unless it's factual information someone can correct. Now, if you can find me a closer estimate on that cost Jeff, I would like you to do so, since you're the one challenging my opinion that it would probobly cost that much.
BTW, I see you didn't answer my post in SFWoA Attendance which is very contradicting of yourself where you said something to the extend of preparing to defend what you say on the forums, etc., but I guess you really couldn't find anything to say. Probably because I'm right. Opinions are never wrong. And you know what? All night you've been saying mine were wrong, but at least I try to have my facts straight unless someone can correct me on it...
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Danny
What did Cedar Peter say to Island Merlin?
Flaggy Maggie ain't getting anywhere near my Peninsula!*** This post was edited by Koaster King on 11/27/2001. ***
You want to deal in facts? It's hard to find the substance in your posts, but here it goes:
FACT: Market research exists indicating SFWoA's attendance is down. I can't say who owns the research but given the people I know and the contacts I have, I don't think I have to demonstrate credibility.
FACT: You suggest that Cedar Point can build two Impulses and the Snoopy ice show for $17 million (when one Impulse alone costs $9 million). Do you have to be a mathematician to figure that one out?
FACT: You never answered how two Impulses would benefit the park and add to their bottom line instead of taking from it.
FACT: To get 1000 pph through the ride you must dispatch every 1:55. Assuming a ride time of one minute, that leaves 55 seconds to unload and load a train, and have each ride op check six restraints. Which part of that is impossible?
FACT: You say that "There is finally reason to knock them out of the Best Capacity spot" but they aren't actually removing any rides (except for one of the Dodgem rides). Unless Dodgem was running at 1000 pph, they certainly aren't creating a defecit. Magnum does 36 people in 25 seconds with four people, and they have to reach down into the car, this should be a piece of cake for six people.
Now if you want to respond, do so without all the stuff about what opinions are, what makes you laugh, who doesn't understand you or whatever. You can't make an argument if you dodge the questions. As I said, it's OK for you to have an opinion, but prepare to defend it beyond "that's my opinion."
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"
By the way Koaster King, you seem to consider yourself the most intelligent person here, despite the fact you have not even graduated high school yet. I seriously doubt you are more intelligent than the adults here, especially Jeff. I'm 20, and in college, and I don't dare for a second to think I know more than everyone else here. A word of advice from someone who recently grew out of his teenager superiority complex, always watch what you say in the company of adults.
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Man, that chick would be hot if she were single...
-Me
*** This post was edited by staticman00 on 11/27/2001. ***
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Is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable?
I think CP could benifit from building two Impulses. Then they could market them as dueling. It would be cheaper because they could combine many of the support structures.
This ride is nothing special, so very few people will make a special trip to CP just for it. Building a dueling Impulse WOULD be special and I, for one, would make a special trip for that.
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Ohio - Coaster capital of the world
*** This post was edited by quailroberts on 11/28/2001. ***
So far you've done everything but respond to the
criticism. Please don't post again until you can
respond to specific points with specific answers.
*Ok, this is a gigantic WTF?!?! on your part. I
actually have no clue where I haven’t responded to
criticism and specific points with specific answers. I
just think you want different answers than I’ve given
you, not to be more specific or anything.
You want to deal in facts? It's hard to find the
substance in your posts, but here it goes:
*I have not a clue what you’re reading, but my posts
are really, really long and I don’t think I would
waste all that mind power and time just to make up a
bunch a crap I have no reason to talk about.
FACT: Market research exists indicating SFWoA's
attendance is down. I can't say who owns the research
but given the people I know and the contacts I have, I
don't think I have to demonstrate credibility.
*I don’t believe anyone until I see the hard facts
unless it’s a close friend or park representative or
PR for this subject. I really don’t know who you who
know and the contacts you have so I wouldn’t give you
anymore credibility than most others who would answer
there although I believe you have a good estimate.
What does this have to do with anything anyway? I
didn’t reject it the first time you asked.
FACT: You suggest that Cedar Point can build two
Impulses and the Snoopy ice show for $17 million (when
one Impulse alone costs $9 million). Do you have to be
a mathematician to figure that one out?
*I was just estimating the price at this, which if you
subtract $4 million, you see my answer would have been
$6.5 million each, which I assumed according to:
buying two, subtracting length, subtracting height,…
and then I don’t know if any of that $9 million goes
toward logos, merchandising, advertisement, etc.,
because like I said, I’m not the expert.
FACT: You never answered how two Impulses would
benefit the park and add to their bottom line instead
of taking from it.
*I wasn’t avoiding this. I just never remembered to
respond. Actually, since you’re extremely
contradicting yourself, I won’t agree to answer this
obvious crap test, because I don’t need to prove
myself to anyone, because I know what I’m talking
about. Sorry, if you don’t read my entire posts to get
all of this answered because it’s all in one of them.
It’s not my job for a total recap and recompilation if
you can’t read it yourself the first time. I will give
quick points on the rest though: rerides, happier
guests, bigger capacity, shorter lines to make more
return visits,… but of course, like it seems you
admitted inferring yourself, CP’s bottom line is not
this guests… and must not be quality anymore either.
It’s how much money they can make according to how
much money they spend, not to buy rides, but to buy
records.
FACT: To get 1000 pph through the ride you must
dispatch every 1:55. Assuming a ride time of one
minute, which leaves 55 seconds to unload and load a
train, and have each ride op check six restraints.
Which part of that is impossible?
*Who knows? Maybe I’m underestimating the CP crew as I
know PKI runs most of their rides way below intended
capacity according to what I’ve heard from friends who
work there, so that’s where I got the lower numbers from as
well as how the manufacturer’s usually overestimate
and SUE has a lot of people get on that don’t know
what they’re doing with their stuff and on other
ride’s don’t know how to use the restraints. I don’t
know if these with be the same as SUE or not. Plus,
launched coasters need a cool down period right? And
each ride op will check 5.333 restraints, not 6. Does
that really take a mathematician?
FACT: You say that "There is finally reason to knock
them out of the Best Capacity spot" but they aren't
actually removing any rides (except for one of the
Dodgem rides). Unless Dodgem was running at 1000 pph,
they certainly aren't creating a defecit. Magnum does
36 people in 25 seconds with four people, and they
have to reach down into the car, this should be a
piece of cake for six people.
*One small correction first, which is deficit is
spelled deficit, not defecit.
I think opening a single new ride without high
capacity for that specifically which all eyes will be
on would take it out of best capacity, especially when
the other park’s I said have introduced very good
capacity IMO according to the demand (ex. adding a
second PTC train to The Legend). The Mantis and Mean
Streak lines at CP moves so dang slow and took longer
to get through than even MF. The only things that were
noticeably moving fast were Raptor, Magnum, and
Gemini. The rest I felt the lines weren’t any better
than any other park I’ve been to.
Now if you want to respond, do so without all the
stuff about what opinions are, what makes you laugh,
who doesn't understand you or whatever. You can't make
an argument if you dodge the questions. As I said,
it's OK for you to have an opinion, but prepare to
defend it beyond "that's my opinion."
*I told you what opinions were, because that’s what he
was asking for to begin with, not what facts do you
know. I already said that. The other things really
didn’t make me laugh. That was just what I thought of
you making me have to go over the subject again when
you could read it yourself or asking some absurd
question.
*To staticman00: That’s just me being sarcastic again
and if you knew me, you’d know I’m like that. I wish
people wouldn’t take all this so seriously, because I
don’t like to put in 100 winks for each post just so
everyone knows I’m joking. Of course, I’m not… wiser
than most if not all of the adults here, but I do know
some have made some outrageous statements at times.
No, staticman, I don’t know whether or not I’m more
intelligent or not than anyone here as there is a
difference in definition between ignorance and
intelligence. I’m not referring to anyone specific
here, just a general statement that someone can be
really smart without knowing very many facts or
anything, but have a great ability to do so.
*-KK responses
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Ohio - Coaster capital of the world
*** This post was edited by quailroberts on 11/28/2001. ***
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Is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable?
People need to chill. And it's only November...
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"you're better off talkin bout your wack puma sneakers." -KRS ONE
It was a good business decision.
If you look at CP attendance they have had marginal increases. They are only going to get so many people into that park. At the same time they haven't lost many folks either, even with a bad economy. They aren't trying to gain more people they are just trying to keep the people they already have. CF makes money, SF doesn't. Why spend extremes amount of money on a new coster when you just spent $25 million 2 years ago? Spending more would have been a bad decision. Finally, eveyone is upset with the capacity, again look at their attendance figures, they have been marginal in either direction, so this ride will just spread the riders out a little more, making the whole park more enjoyable.
*** This post was edited by Mikeman on 11/29/2001. ***
This kind of thing keeps people interested, but it isn't intended to bring people in from all over the world. If you think it's a "bad business decision" then you don't have a clue about what their business is, who the competition is, who the audience is and what marketing opportunity it results in.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"
I wish I could understand that post, but oh well.
-Natalie
Gotta be smarter than the machine....
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Ohio - Coaster capital of the world
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Kicking screamin' Gucci little siggy.
I've got some inside knowledge and I would support most of what Jeff has said. I know for a fact that SFWOA attendance was way down from expectation. I know for a fact that the week they "added" on towards the end of August there were a couple of days that they had less than 200 people in the park.
I know for a fact that CP does not expect annual attendance to go much higher than the 3 - 3.5 million. Mr. Kinzel himself stated that the future for the Resort lies in extended guest nights on the hotel side. You do that by making very unpopular "enthusiast" decisions like building Breakers Express, buying Radisson, expanding Breakers, building Lighthouse Point, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to build or buy a golf course, get a Lake Erie Cruise Ship, etc... for this very reason.
I am not Jeff's yes-man though. I do believe that SFWOA has the capability of becoming a much more aggressive competitor with the Point in the coming years. The things they lack are leadership and a clear direction. If that is corrected then they can make a more significant impact. Kinzel said it himself..."If I had to do it over I would have bought Geauga Lake when I had the chance."
wahoo skipper said:
I know for a fact that the week they "added" on towards the end of August there were a couple of days that they had less than 200 people in the park.
I can back that up. The day I went there was probably more than 200 people, but definately not more than 500. It was great though. Unlimited rides on S:UE. We rode it 20 times in a row, and whenever there wasn't somebody in front we'd get those seats to boot. Stayed on X-Flight for 10 repeat rides (sweet). Same goes for BKF. BUT the darned Villain operators made us go around each and every time even though there were the same 6 people on it every time (jerks). Anyway, attendance was pathetic but I had a great time.
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