something big comin to CP?

Jeff - I agree with you on re: Iron Dragon and I'll take it one step further. The same can be said for any other much maligned coaster, like PGA's Grizzly for example. For us enthusiasts it leaves a lot to be desired but I've seen a ton of kids coming off that coaster smiling and proud of themselves for riding their first "big" coaster, and if that gives them the confidence to try something else or, better yet, sparks an enthusiasm for our hobby, then why should PGA consider removing it [assuming the persistent rumors are true]? And as someone else said if the turnstyle numbers are good it must be providing some level of enjoyment for some people.

In the pursuit of the "big thrill" some coasters are bound to seem less desireble, but that doesn't mean they stop thrilling the masses. I also feel that in the pursuit of the "big thrill" some enthusiasts lose sight of what this hobby is all about and frankly I'd rather be riding PGA's Grizzly, a boomerang or SLC, or heck even a TOGO, then not have anything at all to ride.

Matthew - stepping off soapbox

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NUTS - National Union of Thrill Seekers! [Brought to you by the maker of 'LoCoSuMo!']

I'll take another crack at explaining how moving rides does not mean lack of space.

CP fills up the space it has with attractions. There are no long walks with nothing to see or do between those attractions. If there were, that would a big, boring amusement park.

When CP decides to put something big and new in, it must shuffle some things around because they do not leave large, open spaced within the park to build fantastically large attractions. They reclaim space by shuffling things around.

Point being is that if CP did not have to make some modifications to the layout of the park to build large attractions, it would mean that they wasted space the previous year with large expanses of concrete with nothing to do but walk. I hope I made the point I was trying to.

Can we all agree on this; there is only a finite amount of land on the peninsula itself, of which not all has been touched to date. CP isn't running out of room in the strictest sense, it's always had the same amount of land available to place attractions, accomodations and service structures. Unless there is a serious erosion problem that I'm unaware of, the land isn't dissappearing.

Now CP is starting to get to the point where they have a finite amount of places to build large coasters without seriously messing with the atmosphere that exists today (i.e. Frontier Trail area could support a coaster, but lose it's natural feeling). But just look at parks like IB and what they've done with the little land that they have, they even build over the water. That just goes to show that any park could build a new coaster on just about any sized plot of land. But I think many agree that we don't want to see CP as cluttered as IB, but it won't get that way anytime in the next couple of decades, if ever.

In conclusion, there is plenty of space. Adding new coasters will inherently change the look of the park and may ruin some areas (in some peoples opinions anyway, again Frontier Trail comes to mind). But I don't see them having any problem doubling their current coaster count before drastic measures have to be taken. And the first drastic measures 'could' be removing Lighthouse Point or extending into the parking lot, both of which contain huge amounts of land. Or even start building more coasters that extend into the water park area ala Magnum.

*** This post was edited by Incidentalist on 6/17/2002. ***

And so, we're not even into July and the question has been brought up, What is Cedar Point buliding next year? LOL!

I lost sight of the question that started this post. I have no idea what those footers are for. A Thrust Air would be sweet, or a similar Intamin product, but it could be some type of flat ride also. My hopes for a new coaster lie in the MS area. I would love to see them demolish, yes demolish, MS and build a GCI dueling/racing coaster in that area with a small CCI ala Cornball Express thrown in for good measure. If now that, at least build a mouse or Arrowbatic within the structure of MS (where the never used queue line is). I think that would be some good use of that unused realestate.

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Jeff said:

What you consider an "inferior" ride more than likely serves some portion of the guests. I get so tired of people ragging on Iron Dragon because "it sucks." It's not the greatest roller coaster every built, but you can watch one smile after another from the young kids getting off of the ride.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

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im not talking about coasters, im talking about flat rides and other shows and such. If very few people are visiting those attractions then why keep it? If its a waste of space and money to keep it going, then put something in that is going to attract some business. Its all business choices i guess. And as for Iron Dragon, that was my first "big"coaster too. Its still fun.

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It was only a fantasy, the wall was too high, as you can see, no matter how he tried he could not break free, and the worms ate into his brain.- Pink Floyd "Hey You"

*** This post was edited by B&M_Lover on 6/17/2002. ***

And those coasters like Iron Dragon aren't all bad for us older folks either! When I do my "rounds" at CP, I always include a ride in the back seats of Iron Dragon and Corkscrew as my "big rides" list. They're not much, but there are some unexpected moments of speed, the lines are incredibly short and above all, they go faster than I can run which is what I love about roller coasters in the first place.

I predict or at least hope they add a Thrust Air like HyperSonic.

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Millinium Force rocks

*** This post was edited by MF12 on 6/17/2002. ***

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MichigansAdventureFan said:
"For all we know, it's the world's largest SNOOPY statue!

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Nah, The Snoopy Boutique has done so well, they need to build a *BIGGER* one. :) It'll be located inside the world's biggest doghouse! ;)

Seriously, I've only been there twice, and thought there was plenty of room for new attractions.

I was stuck on the Magnum lift for 5 minutes yesterday, and got a good look at the construction zone. Hasn't changed since the first week, but it does look like footers for a turn. If they move Chaos & Troika, that piece of land along the water would go pretty far, in the same way it does where Mantis is. I'll be happy to get any new ride so soon. Cedar Point utilizes their space better and better each year.

Why would CP build an unreliable S&S when Intamin can now do the same type of ride for them, only better?

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"Escuse me, can you tell me where the heck the Mystery Lodge is"?

Wow - we now have the world's longest "babbling on about crap not even related to the topic" forum. I'm glad to be a part of it. :)

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Welcome back riders, how was your ride...Enjoy your day, here at Cedar Point, America's roller coast.

I'm guessing most of you who want a Thrust Air haven't been on one. I was seriously unimpressed by everything following the launch.

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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"

I agree with you there Jeff, I rode Hypersonic last year and was almost dissapointed after the hill. It was so short and boring after the huge air. If Cp could make a Ta2k but make it atleast last awhile and with some more little hills than that'd be awesome. They are talking on ACN about how the mechanics on Xcellerator say that another ones going in at Cp and it'll be about 50-100 feet taller. Someone might have already said this, i didn't read through the whole thread.

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Top 5:
5) S:ros Sfdl 4) Raptor 3) Apollos Chariot 2) Magnum 1) Millennium Force

Unlike Xcelerator or SFOG's Superman I have absolutely no inside word this time 'round. Still if the Knott's ride works well I don't see why other CF parks wouldn't get the same thing. Not sure why everyone assumes if CP gets the next one it would necessarily have to be bigger, tho.

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NUTS - National Union of Thrill Seekers! [Brought to you by the maker of 'LoCoSuMo!']

Thanks for the back-up Buzzers, I had faith in you. The one item of expertise you missed in your rebuttle Spryboy is a) the proof to the lack of space and b) I've been going every year since 1972. You know CP like the back of your hand? Wash it once and you'll find plenty of space. Simply put.

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There's nothing like a woodie...

I'm glad Jeff mentioned the disappointment in Hypersonic. Why does everyone want one when most of you have not been on one? It's an impressive site, but give me a more proven coaster.

Watch you guys will be all excited to when Cedar Point is going to announce there new ride, and be bummed when they say a liitle kiddy ride. Seriously, its just a footer, nothing special.

-Neil

sarcasim It's a publicity thing. CP has saved more money with the free publicity then the footer they poured is worth. It's business sense. lol Anyway, like I have said before. If room becomes and issue they will either buy Michigan or Canada. Geesh, we are talking about CP here. They have to do whatever they can to beat SF! lmao /sarcasim

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Woody said:

Thanks for the back-up Buzzers, I had faith in you. The one item of expertise you missed in your rebuttle Spryboy is a) the proof to the lack of space and b) I've been going every year since 1972. You know CP like the back of your hand? Wash it once and you'll find plenty of space. Simply put.

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There's nothing like a woodie...

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I just think your definition of "plenty of space" is totally different from mine.

To me, if they had plenty of space, they wouldn't have to take things out to put new things in. Period. End of discussion. When was the last time they didn't remove something to make way for a new ride? Mean Streak? EVERY year since then, they've moved and shuffled. This means they are running out of free and open space.

To the "hard drive defragmenting" argument, I say "sure" ... especially given that defragmenting only gives any benefit as the disk gets close to FULL.

I'm NOT saying CP is OUT of space, never did, and I continue to be amazed you're arguing as if this is what I'm saying. It's annoying.

CP gets better and better at utilizing their existing space precisely because space is at a premium now, and is only going to become more so with each passing year as they add new attractions... and remove old ones to make way for the new ones.

I'm sorry, but every argument you seem to make on your side only seems to buttress MY argument. You can make all the "rationalizations" you want about how removing an old ride makes business sense. I'm sure it does, but that doesn't change the fact that they removed it in order to make room for something new. Or they moved it to make room for something new. Or that there are few "large tracts of land" left that they can just plop a new major ride down on without moving or removign things. Besides, you don't want to remove ALL the trees or take out the entire Frontier Trail, etc.

They could certainly gain some more space by moving dorms and support buildings off the Penensula, but that's not always feasable either. If they built an (expensive!) parking garage, they could reclaim tons of space now used for the parking lot. But the point remains, they wouldn't have to do any of that if they weren't running out of room, now would they?

Personally, I'd LOVE to see a coaster that went out over Lake Erie. I'm sure there are some safety reasons they won't do that, though :-(

Again, I think you're just using a different (and bizzare) definition of what "running out of space" means. It does not mean "has no space left", just fyi.