something big comin to CP?
While I'm not one to "prove" anything, but we have discussed this topic many times and CP is NOT, I repeat NOT running out of room. Why?
1) About 18 months ago, we had an aerial photo with many places to build. Places to wrap coasters, spaghetti coasters and out and back coasters. 2) History, and we will keep this in close proximity so the younger generation can follow. 1991- Mean Streak the tallest wooden coaster built on a plot of land in the back. 1994- Mill Race out, Calypso moves, enter Raptor over midway. 1996- Mantis smashed into a relatively small plot of land on the island (move Western Cruise). 1998- Jungle Larry out, Power Tower in. 2000- Move Ferris Wheel, remove Chicken stand (and how I miss that!), enter MF. What I'm trying to say is CP will creatively move or remove rides to build the most innovative attractions of the times. Since, 1974, my first trip, the park has changed dramatically and will do so until I leave earth.
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There's nothing like a woodie...
Sfgam Enthusiast 7 said:
I would like someone to prove to Me that Cedar Point isn't running out of room. Like an aerial view showing somewhere with adequete enough space for say.....A B&M Flyer (About Superman's Size).
Because I would really like to see. Because by the looks of it, that Peninsula looks like it can only handle so much on it's land.
Look at a photo of CP like on Mapquest. Still don't think there is lots of rom?....(there is)....then look at places like Morey's piers which have shoehorned dozens of rides (including coasters) in the smallest space of land imaginable. Then look at how Hershey squeezed a B&M inverted by threading it through an existing coaster and flume ride, over a river, and through a small strip of land at the side of a midway. There was NO room for that ride!!
CP is running out of room my friends. They only have room for 20 or 25 more coasters!!! Start panicing!
While at CP last weekend, I couldn't help notice the fenced off area is next to the Paddlewheel Excursions queue/area. While I have fond memories of it's pre-Iron Dragon pre-politically correct days, I think PE could easily be on the chopping block. Every year it just gets a little more sad. Take the Paddlewheel excusrion queue and boarding area with the adjacent Dodgem area and you have some decent land to work with. If it was a coaster, it could go out to MF island. Plenty of room there! Just a guess, though.
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- Peabody
*** This post was edited by Peabody on 6/15/2002. ***
People, I love Cedar Point too, but just because you love something doesn't mean you can lie about it...and even believe your own lies. You are in denial. Cedar Point DOES have serious limits to their space. Most new rides built require the relocation of an older ride. Sure, Cedar Point has "room" to build many more coasters, but that would completely ruin what Cedar Point is today. I don't care about how many, I care about how good, and right now, Cedar Point is top notch. I don't want it to be cluttered like so many other parks. Anyway, these supports are not for a coaster...
Oh, and personally, I don't want Cedar Point to build any coasters higher than 150 feet... I think it would ruin the skyline with so many extremely tall rides (Power Tower, Space Spiral, Millennium Force). Look how good Mantis and Raptor are, both under 150 feet.
*** This post was edited by Tyler 7692 on 6/16/2002. ***
Tyler... don't even go there. Whether or not your a Point Fanboy or not has nothing to do with Cedar Point's space constraints. There is plenty of room there. I don't know how many times in this or other forums I've rattled off a dozen different places that they could easily install another coaster.
They're a long way from running out of space. People were saying that back when they installed Mantis, and what do you know, we've since had Power Tower, Camp Snoopy, Millennium Force and Wicked Twister.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"
Woody said:
...CP is NOT, I repeat NOT running out of room. Why?
... 1991- Mean Streak the tallest wooden coaster built on a plot of land in the back. 1994- Mill Race out, Calypso moves, enter Raptor over midway. 1996- Mantis smashed into a relatively small plot of land on the island (move Western Cruise). 1998- Jungle Larry out, Power Tower in. 2000- Move Ferris Wheel, remove Chicken stand (and how I miss that!), enter MF. What I'm trying to say is CP will creatively move or remove rides to build the most innovative attractions of the times. ...
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There's nothing like a woodie...
So in one breath you say they're not running out of room, and in the next you detail how they're obviously running out of room since each new ride placement requirers the moving and/or removal of another ride.
Denial? Must be. If they had "plenty" of room, they wouldn't be removing attractions or moving attractions to put new ones in. QED.
If they move something, they aren't creating space. And what attractions have been removed in the last decade? Jungle Larry was a concessionaire that quit. The aquarium wasn't used. Mill Race never made sense after they built White Water Landing. So again... show me how they're running out of room.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"
some of these ideas are ridiculous! ... but hey, it's mucho fun to speculate, and hey... that's what happens when a few of us coaster FREAKS get together... i don't take much stock in the guessing game, really... i normally just wait for official announcements... but, that having been said, here goes my 2 cents..... ;)
well, we all know that Dick Kinzell and Stan Checketts are good friends (at the very least, professionally, anyways)... a while ago, someone had came up with the far fetched idea that CF would get some sort of deal on a ThrustAir due to the issues with the CP/KBF removal of an added cost thrill ride (for the life of me, i can't remember the name... vertigo, i think). maybe CP IS getting a mammoth ThrustAir... who knows? ... but, what i can say, is that i DEFINITELY see something from S&S and/or Setpoint coming to CP within the next few years.
needless quotation removed -J
When they move the rides it takes up the same amount of space. They have plenty land left only if thye use it correctly.
*** This post was edited by Jeff on 6/16/2002. ***
We all know Dick and Stan are friends? What does being friends have to do with business decisions?
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"
Dearest Tyler and Spryboy: Without heading into a flame war with two persons with a combined number of posts of 34 (which possibly could be your combined ages, also) on the Buzz, I will offer my rebuttle. Am I in denial, sure, you're right. Am I stupid? Absolutely, for thinking there is no space on the pennisula. I must be crazy for offering such examples to prove why I am in the right. But, why in 90 posts, only 6 have offered the negative? Strange? I'll come back to that.
First, when they move a ride to make room for another, that means that they have not lost space, but creating another method of building the better ride. (ie: Raptor) I don't see why that's so hard to understand. I move students in my classroom from one seat to another to ensure an educational enviornment, but I didn't expand my classroom, remove the student or a desk. What's the difference in moving a ride?
2ndly, you (Spryboy) said that moving rides "...does count!" For what? Peanuts? Overall number of attractions? Missing out on Ally McBeal on Sundays? Please explain.
Within 30 years, the Point has developed into a mega amusement center while removing and moving rides to ensure the total atmosphere for your amusement dollar. Heck, even my favorite flat ride (Bayern Kurve) was removed in the early 80's to make room for the Wildcat in order to build Oceana (family attraction). Do I miss it, sure, but I would rather have the total commitment to excellence that CP ensures. Moving rides in and out is part of the business (that you will learn in college throughout the years). The Himalaya has been moved 3 times. But, what I fail to understand is your logic to why you feel there is no room. I offered my 'proof', but where is your proof? Are they just going to stop at 15 and say, "well, that's it! You guys just have to go to SFWoA to get a better park."
Jeff has added to my proof and examples, but where's yours? Help an old man out here, guys. You can do better than, "If they had "plenty" of room, they wouldn't be removing attractions or moving attractions to put new ones in" Why not? Some parks construct this feat every season, why not CP? It's just a company perfecting their #1 asset. Basically, CP is just proving to us that space DOES exist on that tiny pennisula on Lake Erie by moving and removing the rides.
84 out of 90 posts? I know I'm not alone in my opinions.
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There's nothing like a woodie...
When they move a ride to place another one, I can't understand why you can't see that the ONLY reason to do that is that there is no pre-existing space to hold the ride as-is. They are having to compact things, re-shuffle, and otherwise play "Tetris" to fit things in. If they had plenty of space, they wouldn't need to move rides.
And they've removed a LOT of rides. The aquarium WAS used (how many years have you been going to CP anyway, if you think it wasn't used?). When they're removing otherwise perfectly functional things in order to make room for new things, then they obviously dont' have "tons of room". How you can argue otherwise is just amazing to me, as it's so OBVIOUS that if they had PLENTY of room, then neither moving nor removing would be necessary. BY DEFINITION.
They're on a finite amount of land. Sure, you can start building up and over the water, but that's just ACKNOLWEDING that they're running out of land; it's not a rebuttal.
And again, you admit they are running out of room when you say "Heck, even my favorite flat ride (Bayern Kurve) was removed in the early 80's to make room for the Wildcat in order to build Oceana (family attraction)", so how can you then turn around and claim they aren't? You're either in denial or being hypocritical or something, because you're not making any logical sense.
I'm not saying (and have never said) they're going to have to stop putting in rides. The point I'm making is that they're running out of room, and it's simply not the case that they can add new rides every year without taking out and re-arranging rides and attractions at this point.
For the record, your insults about my age are ill-informed. I graduated college over ten years ago, with an engineering degree, thanks.
And you also misquote me, you say I said there was no room (this is called a 'strawman argument'... putting words into my mouth I didn't say, and then trying to prove those are false... well big deal). I said they are running out of room. Which they are, and your own words admit tacitly.
Anyone who says "they're proving that space DOES exist by removing rides" has some serious flaws in their logical reasoning ability.
I don't know why the (obvious) fact that CP is running out of room and has to "make hard choices" and be smarter about designing and placing new attractions is so repulisive to you... why you act like it's an insult of some kind. It's not. It's a simple statement of fact. I grew up my entire life there, I know the park like the back of my hand. I'm not saying they'll stop putting in new rides. I'm just saying that there are a lot of things gone now that I miss, and the ONLY reasons they pulled many of them were to make space for new attractions. Obviously I'd rather have The Raptor than the Mill Run, but that ride always had a line, even when White Water Landing was in full swing, so it's not like it wasn't popular.
I can relate de-fragging my computer to what CP does to make room for new attractions. The empty space is there, you just got to move the used space together to notice.
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KoRn is the Mellennium Force of ROCK
Why does the park need to keep inferior rides to accomodate the few guests that actually like them. They have to stay fresh and keep new and more exciting rides coming in. They cant keep the same rides forever, that would be boring.
Moving rides does not mean they are running out of space. Because, like Woody and Jeff said, they are still using space. there is no reason to have a sprawling amusement park when you can put 4 rides together in a small area. It doesnt make sense to have a spread out amusement park, it just doesnt.
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Raptor rules the sky!!!!
*** This post was edited by B&M_Lover on 6/17/2002. ***
Spryboy:
You really should look at Terra-server once in a while. Before they put in Millennium Force and only used part of the island, notice i said part, you could have easily fit about 3 to 4 Manits's on there. Now even after they did put in Millennium Force, you can still probably fit 2 Mantis's on there comfortably. There is no space problem. And there are alot more areas than just the island that are like this.
Now, as for the new ride. Well, those pics of the S&S supports and possible track have to be going somewhere, not saying that it is indeed going to CP, but its definately possible. Lets me just put it this way, CP is going to thrust into 2003, with big air.
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What you consider an "inferior" ride more than likely serves some portion of the guests. I get so tired of people ragging on Iron Dragon because "it sucks." It's not the greatest roller coaster every built, but you can watch one smile after another from the young kids getting off of the ride.
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Jeff - Webmaster/Admin - CoasterBuzz.com, Sillynonsense.com
"As far as I can tell it doesn't matter who you are. If you can believe, there's something worth fighting for..." - Garbage, "Parade"
Ever wonder what those turnstyles at the entrance to rides and attractions are for? They count how many people ride and/or visit those attractions. Does it make sense to keep something that very few people enjoy over building another attraction that many more people will enjoy? It's business dudes.
CP moves rides more than they remove them, and generally the removed rides are low attendance, and are replaced with something much better.
I'm having a hard time accepting CP will build another coaster this soon after WT, although WT was a less expensive coaster. I'm still betting on a larger flat ride. If they DO build a coaster, I'll just be very pleasantly suprised.
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I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead
What did CP really take out in the last 10 years or so that was a major attraction?... a very old and small log flume, an outdated and old aquarium and zoo, a skyride that took up a lot of acres in future development. You act like they tore down the Gemini or Thunder Canyon because there was no land available. Heck, I remember when Mean Streak was new, my first question was "where"? The park is so huge and sprawled out that we perceive there to be no room, unlike other parks where rides overlap and the park has landlocked itself where it starts building in the parking lot. Until CP starts building in the parking lot, just enjoy the rides and don't worry about it.
Let's use another park. Why did Kings Island just tear down a major coaster and flume ride in the past two season? Are they running out of room? Of course not. Focus your concern on Kennywood.
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