S.O.B.
....well Nate, let's just say *for the sake of argument* that SOMEONE around here (name removed to protect the innocent) really LOVES a particular ride that no one else likes....let's call this ride Hercules. If that particular individual "wanted" the ride to be ranked higher, he could simply send in a poll with Herc at #1. Sure, this *unnamed individual* might like Herc, but COULD put it all the way to #1 ahead of other rides he liked better, just to get Herc moved up a few spots.
My point is, it DEFINITELY could go either way....which brings us back to D'oh...er, Moosh rather....the MORE ballots, the less of an impact the *outliers* have on the final tally..
I see what you're saying, though, and I agree with you. And as I pointed out, MF still does well despite some of the sabotaging. Certainly the more ballots the better.
-Nate
Moosh, I never had a problem with the way you voted, If you would kindly go back through my post in this thread, I even stated that at one point, I WASN'T going to ride SONNY again. That was June/July 2000.
As for good coasters taking a beating even though they are nobodys favorite, I stand behind that 100% . Like you yourself said, LTD is a darn good coaster and it surprised me and it was fun plain and simple. It's one of my favorites. But it recieves no #1 votes to beat out another coaster so it never wins in the head to head and therefore finishes something like 112th even though it may be in everyones top 30.
I really have no problem with the way anyone votes and again, The more participants, The fairer it becomes.
Everyone has different taste and no poll is completely fair. Even though I apreciate Mitches continuing effort to make it so. Hence nobody can see the prelim results in the last two weeks so they can purposfully rank one coaster over another with ballot stuffing. Mitch himself caught that last year and I made the suggestion not to see the prelim results. Heck, Fairer still would not be able to see any results till the poll was over and simply a reply from Mitch with, Here is the ballot you posted, Is this correct?
Chuck, who in the day of multiple screenames and emails says it is very possible for people to vote more than once.
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Charles Nungester.
Is it about coasters or friends? I say both!
*** This post was edited by Charles Nungester on 11/27/2002. ***
I guess I'll throw my 2 cents into the ring on this topic....
First, I think SoB is an ok ride. I only rode it once, mid-day, in the 2nd to back seat last year. I never try to fully rank a coaster based only on one ride or even on one visit. I try to hit every woodie multiple times, different times of day, over at least 2 days...but alas, that is not always possible. I do know that after that one ride SoB definitely has some potential. A little more speed and it would have some airtime over some of those hills. Other than a few hills, it reminds me of papa, fast, on the rougher side, with little in the way of interesting forces. I have both rides ranked about in the middle of my 94 wood coasters. Actually they are both around number 40, with SoB having the edge, mainly due to more and better drops then the Beast.
I suppose I can understand someone thinking it is a good ride, maybe not a top notch ride, but good. I definitely don't understand anyone ranking it near the bottom of their list though. I certainly find SoB much more thrilling or fun then any wood coaster I've ridden under 50 feet, and much better then a bunch of mid-size boring woodies with no airtime. I have Sob above most of the other often maligned large woodies like MS, Herc, Beast, and I'm sure others.
As for enthusiasts, I think enthusiasts definitely, in most cases, how to judge coasters better then the GP. Popular does not mean better, you can find that all through life. It is true with moives, books, cars...lots of things! I most definitely don't take much stock in someone's opinion of a coaster if they've only ridden like 15 or 20 coasters total. It's kinda like saying the Chevy Cavilier is the best car, becuase it is one of 5 I've driven, or because it sells XXX hundreds of thousands. It is not the case. I take FAR more stock in the compact car reviews/comparisions in Car & Driver, and in my experience they do a good job ranking them. Ditto for something like Mitch's poll, which is by FAR the best coaster poll ever devised...and the most accurate in terms of quality IMHO.
With that said, I do think some coasters are ranked way too low. Of course some are ranked too high as well, but that's only my opinion. Essentially all the best coasters are somewhere near the top, and that's what counts IMHO. I remember when I had only ridden about 50 coasters, and I had a few pretty high on my list. I remember getting some flack for a few back in '94-'95 on RRC. I look back now, and I deserved it! After riding more rides I realize that some of the coasters pretty much sucked, but I just hadn't ridden enough good ones to make a fair comparison. For those that think SoB is *all* that, and you've only ridden a small amount of wood coasters..wait a few years then see what you think.
Oh, I just checked my list, I have SoB #43 and Beast #45 on my personal list, out of 94 woodies...so you know where I stand on them.
Thanks for listening,
Ted
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The Beast, at night, Nothing better.
Arguementative? It only sounds like a good debate to me.
And Ansley's comments were by far the most well-thought and written in a long time. In fact i tried miserably earlier and failed to make just the point he so aptly made.
Anyway, if we can't debate opinions then why have a board?
Well, Mitch's poll results were announced. SOB held at #134 for a second year. It's three year trend is #136 [2000], #134 [2001], and #134 [2002].
However there is some good news: when you remove the rankings of people who did not ride SOB this year it moves up to #88.
Moosh
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I guess all those people that didn't like it just moved on to something else shortening the line for those who enjoy the ride.
Tyson, not saying its the best ride but enjoyable none the less
So 'Moosh, what you are telling us, in essence, is "I told you so"....:). #88 for Sonny IS a jump of about 50 spots though, so I too feel somewhat *vindicated*....lol. Talk about your small victories, huh...;).
bill, saying if you look even further to those that rated SPEED as their #1 factor, Sonny would likely move even higher...myself, I'm an ejector-airtime person....
'Gator - quite the opposite. Many people have been claiming that SOB's ride experiece has improved this year, and the #88 ranking in the "ridden this year" version of the poll seems to support that.
Moosh
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*** This post was edited by Mamoosh on 12/2/2002. ***
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The Beast, at night, Nothing better.
....that's pretty much what I was getting at, that Sonny (as YOU mentioned previously) is not a top-tier ride....it IS way better ths year IMO, and apparently some others feel similarly...It's still the same coaster, and probably will never be what PKI was hoping it would be, but it certainly took a big jump in *my* rankings...
I was teasing you with the *I told you so* comment, since you had already stated the obvious....that Sonny just wasn't going to jump into the top-10 from out of nowhere, despite the admittedly impressive credentials...(although, with better trains/restraints....;))....
edit: SOOperGIR...'Moosh and I are NOT arguing, merley having a *conversation*. We BOTH see each other's viewpoints, and are *adults* having a discussion....we're ALL good....(just that I'm better, lol)....;)
*** This post was edited by rollergator on 12/2/2002. ***
Coasteraddict asked:
"Yah, but Moosh did you remove the rankings of the people who did not ride all of those other years and compare that?"
That's exactly what "results from only those who rode this year" means! And I didn't make the comparison, Mitch did.
He ran his poll using only data from coasters that were ridden in 2001. Since I didn't ride this year my last-place ranking of #75 was excluded as was anyone else has ridden rode Sonny previously but not this year. That's where the #88 ranking comes from.
Moosh
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