Six Flags WoA attendance continues to plummet.

Just remember that seasonal employment falls under different labor laws then normal employment. This is how seasonal parks get away with breaking obvious labor laws. They just arent laws to seasonal employees.

As of corporate picnics and what not....there was at least one every weekend. 95% of the time we had more then 1 a day. One day for example in July we had 18 different companies having their picnics at the same time. The two biggest days being Cleveland Clinic with almost 40,000 employees alone on one day, and obviously Progressive Insurence who bought out the entire park.

I have worked at the park since 2001 and will be back as a sup in 2004. I personally beleive these estimates are crap. 2003 was packed day to day compared to 2002. Most of 2003's attendence stayed in the waterpark and on wildlife compared to previous years when everyone would just be riding rides.

The problem with WOA starts with the parent company and flows down through the piss poor management of the park since 2001.

The company allows for no spending at all, which allows for no maintenance or proper staffing. Or competitive wages in some cases. But that isn't effecting all parks in the chain the same way, there are other SF parks doing well desipte the ludicrous SF policies. WOA just shows that the management in Auroras' inability to control their budget. Furthermore the management that is still there hates the park and company so much it has definately rubbed off on the seasonals. Finally the tight budget and minimum staffing of SF has given the park management staff the crutch of having to much to do with to little resources to do it. Before 2001 GLP/SFO always turned a profit no matter how bad the attendance was.

And by the way the two parks did at least 1.8 mil (SFO) and 1.6 (SWO) in 2000, by far the most combined park attendance in history. Before that GLP never sniffed much more than 1.5 mil. and SWO was always higher before the flagging of GLP.

I made my first visit to WoA at the end of last summer. I'd heard all the horror stories so my expectations were low but with reports of improved service levels, I was optimistic. Since I wanted to collect all 10 coasters, we planned to arrive at the park from Chicago in late afternoon, spend the entire next day there, leaving early evening for 2 days at CP.

We absolutely loved this park. In fact, we ended up staying an extra day even though that meant sacrificing a day at CP. We didn't regret it.

Dare I say, aside from TDD, CP was a bit of a let down after our visit to WoA.

We have plans to return next year. A trip to CP is still up in the air at this point.

Child labor laws are what they are, seasonal or not. Seasonal jobs don't pay overtime, but depending on the state, they still can't work more than 40 hours.

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RollerCoasterGod said:
Yeah, but the same can be said about CP. Both parks...

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What does that have to do with anything? The things that CP and SFWoA have in common don't have anything to do with SFWoA's attendance hit.

Running the rides isn't rocket science, but lives certainly are at stake. CP doesn't put ride prides on controls. If they can help it, they prefer to put them at entrance. You need to test before you can operate a roller coaster, and many otherwise smart people have failed their first try.

Getting back to my giant commentary earlier, and hearing more about attendance, this is all examples of bloated figures.

SWO was being shopped around the industry for a few seasons, and magically, their attendance really rose. Granted the Key West area would have made me drive 1000 miles to see, and after seeing the Orlando version, well, it didn't cause a major increase.

Second, Geauga Lake was also being shopped around since 1994 or so, and their attendance also seemed to climb without any major additions. Heck, one year they added a Lil Tykes play area. Wow!

So what you have here are 2 regional parks with good attendance and after the SF Ohio build up, they inflated figures to match the PR blitz that followed. We are seeing a 'reality' of attendance now, which is not bad. However, after hearing corporate bs coming out of Oklahoma City, people wonder what happened to the visitors.

Everybody is now being counted more accurately. SF corporate needs to let the parks operate more independently like Cedar Fairs, and let Geauga Lake focus on groups which they did just fine, and Sea World focus on families, and everybody will be happy with the results. *** Edited 12/23/2003 10:32:47 PM UTC by Agent Johnson***

Trash/cleanliness and capacity issues (getting the number of guests waiting for the ride on it in a reasonable time) were definitely not problems when I went this year. Those of you that went in 2001 or 2002 might not have much to say if you didn't visit this year and see how they possibly improved. The Child Labor thing might be a problem, but how do we know other SF, Paramount, CF parks, etc. don't do it when they're low on ride ops. Some of their parks don't like to close rides for any reason. I would hope all of the parks, including SFWOA, would be smart enough not to do it though... But then they would have to get complaints about rides being closed, so there's the lose/lose situation for them.

Either way, I think SFWOA is a much better park and thinks it's a much better park than the trash it is being displayed as. They probably wanted people to go there and plan to stay at least two days, one to take in the WL side and one to take in the WR side. It easily has the most potential of any seasonal park I've been to and with the right management, dare I say, could easily be the best park in Ohio.

-Danny *** Edited 12/23/2003 10:37:43 PM UTC by Koaster King***

Remember all the problems Geauga Lake had? Poor maintenance, running 1 train with an hour wait, indifferent employees, etc, etc. Now, notice the problems with SFWOA? They're pretty much the same. To my understanding, Six Flags bought it, but there are a lot of the same people running the show who ran the show at Geauga Lake.

I worked there when I was a teenager, and the moral in that place wasn't good. I don't want to get into specifics, but poor managament and attitudes from top to bottom didn't help. It was probably my worst job ever.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't CP only hire people college age on up? People at this age or older typically have a lot better work ethic and direction in life than someone who is 14 years old. Maybe that is part of the customer service distinction between CP and SFWOA. Then again, I'm sure SF isn't the only chain that hires people 14 years of age, yet other parks do it better. Just a thought.

Cedar Point built employee housing like 100 yrs. ago, which gives them a huge edge in recruiting, which they also do very well.

SF is just establishing a Euorpean based program, and students now work at SFtexas and SF Great Adventure. It will not happen overnight. GL had arrangements housing kids at Kent St on internships, but they are large enough now to really promote employmeny opportunity there.

I am banking that most young employees are asking to work on the SW side, as they had a softer more proffessional workforce, kids who wanted to be there.

Sort of like the kids who love to work at Sesame Place. Enthusiasm. That is a new word that SF has to check into and implement it to everone. Kieran, are you still reading these comments?

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coasterdude318 said:
Do you honestly think CP has no bearing whatsoever on SFWoA's attendance?

I wouldn't say it has no bearing. Of course they're both in competition. But CP having better coasters have nothing to do with SFWOA's problems. SFWOA's coaster and ride line up are fine. Now CP being a more well run operation could have something to do with it.

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I totally agree with the above statement. After talking to different areas of management at the park also for 2003 they also realize that. CP, has SOOoo many things to do besides just work. CP has one of the best organized employee party system around. So many things for so many different types of people. College people come, work, party...it's just like one big spring break...in a way. Either way, keep the employees happy and it will show in your park. That is one thing SFWoA has emplemented for 2003, and it definetly improved their attitudes. They still could do a lot more work on their program, but it's a start and they realize it.

If they want to draw the overseas crowd to work they need housing of course. It just seems that they are trying to draw in the crowd from all the populated area though for now (seems to slowy be changing over.) Where CP just mainly has Sandusky to draw from (which of course we all realized.)

SFWoA needs some type of Rec Hall/swimming/something else on there property somewhere to help make it appealing for employees, wether overseas or in the area. It is improving with employess though.

"The Future of Roller Coasters"
-RollerCoasterGod
http://OhioThemeParks.com
*** Edited 12/23/2003 11:56:36 PM UTC by RollerCoasterGod***

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Those of you that went in 2001 or 2002 might not have much to say if you didn't visit this year and see how they possibly improved.

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But see, that's the thing - they lost us in 2001 and 2002. It's going to take a lot of word of mouth to get people coming back. How many times do you have to go and hate it before you quite coming back. For most it seems like a season or two. Now they have to win back the crowds they've turned off for a couple of seasons.

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Sort of like the kids who love to work at Sesame Place. Enthusiasm.

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I find the fact that you mention Sesame Place to be pretty funny. The only park that I've ever had a worse experience than SFWOA was Sesame. Those enthuiastic kids must have been off the day I visited, most of the water areas (ok, so basically the whole park) reeked of urine, there was trash piled at roughly half the garbage cans (photo I took that day) and for a place that seems to be aimed at young to very young children - it was extremely stroller unfriendly. On top of that after paying $10 to park, the lot was full and they were directing cars onto the grass around the lot. Certainly not up to Busch standards.

On the plus side, in what may be an amusement park first, they did refund our money when we complained and told them "we were leaving because quite frankly, their park sucked." So that was cool, I guess.

To this day, those are the only two parks that I've had exceptionally poor experiences at that were within control of the park.

Hehe - I just did a search and my TR from SFWOA 2001 is still hanging around. Funny how mad people got when you just spoke the truth.

I see everyone is complaining about the customer service of SFWOA. Most of you say that the employees treat you like crap and they dont know how to run rides. My question is What Six Flags park would you like to see help WOA with their customer service problems? Since they can't fix their problem with the people they already have, I think it is time for them to look for outside help.

Also people are comparing this park to CP in terms of capacity and ride operations. From my visits to CP, I notice they also have their problems in the same areas. Everyone seems to think that CP is the God of amusement parks in customer service and operations(and I somewhat agree with that statement), but they have very noticable problems. Correct me if I'm wrong but i read somewhere that SFGA was the standard when it comes to ride operations(i'm not sure if there is any truth to that).

P.S-I'm new here so give me some time before you rip me a new one!!

CP is the king for me when it comes to rides, (not just coasters, but rides in general). As far as customer service, I don't even put CP in my top 3. The kings of cust. serv. for me are 1) Holiday World 2) Dollywood 3) Universal Orlando. In my mind the whole SF family has spread themselves too thin in the attempt to rule the amusement world in quantity of parks, instead of quality. But like many others have said, having CP so close will be their undoing...ultimately. And it's sad, because as coasters go I really liked SFWoA, (X-Flight, Knight Flight, Villain, Dipper, & Superman really kicked serious butt!).

Which SFGA are you referring to Fanatic? If its SFGAm, then yes, they seem to be the standard for ride operations in the SF chain.

Jeff, I really don't understand this safety thing that you refer to when it comes to SFWoA? Why would they cut back on things that jeopardize guests safety? Thats just business suicide.

Every park that I have ever been to I have ran into a rude employee or two. But by far the worst has to be at sfwoa. It almost seemed as if almost every employee had a attitude problem and just did not care about there job.

I did notice a big diverance in attitude when I went to six flags in chicago. It was almost as good as cedar points and many other parks.

I did buy a season pass from there not because I am going there, but I am going to other six flags as well as ohio.

One of the worst things I saw at sfwoa, was two employies yelling back and forth to one an other using many choice words not paying attention to the ride(big dipper) and letting the train just fly thrue the station.

And two of my big gripes is this....why only 2 train operations when there is a 1 hour wait? The platforms of there rides look like a junk yard with all the backpacks, drinks, food, hats, stuffed animals, etc. I almost broke my neck by tripping over a stuffed annimal on the platform of batman k/f when I got off of the ride.

Bottom line is this...........bad sevrvice and

trashey rides is not a good formula for a return visit.

I have however noticed a improvement on the midway as farr as trash goes.

I found when I was there this past labor day that the employees were not too bad. Stacking was almost non existant and people were friendly. Granted the place was nowhere near busy. The line for Villan was knee deep in trash though. Bees were all over the half empty coke bottles. The wildlife side had hardly any rides open also.

But from all the bad comes the shows on the wild life side of the park. They were pretty good. Then again I enjoy SFKK.

Of course there are a lot of comparisons with Cedar Point here. It's not just that Cedar Point has outstanding ride operations, a park that is kept reasonably clean and attractive, good crowd control, an insane number of coasters, and in general a better overall operation than Six Flags...it's that Cedar Point and Geauga Lake are roughly an hour's drive from each other. They share common markets, though admittedly a park in Aurora has problems that a park in Sandusky won't have just because it's closer to Cleveland. But that isn't enough to explain the contrast between the parks.

Oh, and based on my experiences there in 2003, there have been major, important improvements over 2002. There is still a long way to go, but there have been improvements. But how do those improvements really help bring back customers who wrote the place off two years ago?

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

Looking for good word of mouth to get you back to SFWOA Gonchar? Take time to read through this if you haven't been since '01 or '02. From:

coasterzak's 5-4-03 TR- "It was a nice day and I can't complain. Perfect weather, and SFWoA is looking very sharp for the 2003 season!"

RollerCoasterGod's 5-25-03 TR- "ALL the crews were EXCELLENT today. I can really say, that they were all doing great jobs, even Road Runner Express crews where making the kids smile. Villain's crew had the train already out of the station even before train 2 hit the brakes... The landscaping crew has really been busy, and it shows all their hard work... I saw almost to many sweeps. They were everywhere, I guess it's a good thing, but they really were everywhere."

CoasterFanMatt's 5-27-03 TR- "Neither one of us had heard much good about this park; in fact we often heard that it was actually worse than our local park, Six Flags Magic Mountain, a scary thought to be sure. As it turned out, those fears were absolutely incorrect."

Robocoaster's 6-7-03 TR- "Outside of X-Flight, the crews were serviceable... granted there were a few good ones I ran into, but overall, no great shakes. The grounds looked nice, even though the rides appeared to be "plopped" down rather haphazzardly. Restrooms were on the whole disgusting, and stinky." Great reviews given to rides overall. Not sure if he enjoyed the park or not although he was definitely happy to be at a park.

Whipper Snapper's 6-12-03 TR- "Overall crowd: very minimal, mostly walk-ons all day... In conclusion, my fourth trip to Six Flags Worlds of Adventure was infact, an Adventure. I can't wait to go back next year!"

Jokercoaster's 6-12-03 TR- "This was the best time I've ever had..."

DS's 7-3-03 TR- "In the four hours that we were in the park, we really enjoyed our selves. The park really needs to work on guest relations, and create a more friendly enviroment. Other then that it was great..."

haux's 7-7-03 report- "I loved it, but I also looked at it with an open mind. It has good coasters, I am a coaster enthusiast, and that’s what I love. SFWOA may not be as good as Cedar Point, but there’s no need to compare."

PittDesigner's 7-7-03 TR- Must-read, glowing positive report: Regular members- http://www.coasterbuzz.com/forum.aspx?mode=thread&TopicID=32696 or Club members- http://club.coasterbuzz.com/forum.aspx?mode=thread&TopicID=32696

CP ismyhome's 7-8-03 TR- "All in all, it was a great day. We got in all of the rides and all of the shows except for the boat show. The only complaint that I have is that the restrooms were filthy inside. Everything else was great. Six Flags is making good progress."

petie's 7-15-03 TR- "it was a nice day...like always"

punishinglemur's 7-17-03 TR- "There was a significant amount of trash on the ground and quite a bit of vandalism on the walls... As my friend put it, 'Six Flags should come here and find out how to run a park'."

crashmando's 7-22-03 TR- "This park is truly wonderful. It’s had everything I look for in a park. A large coaster collection and clean bathrooms! The staff will score low at this park for not loading fast or correctly."

KWood88's 8-14-03 TR- "It was also a very clean park, and although it's basically a Geauga Lake with a couple extra coasters, it's still a very enjoyable park (didn't get to see Bugs Bunny though, which was a bit of a let down). This was my first Six Flags park ever, and I was quite satisfied."

DILinator's 8-31-03 TR- "I really liked the park overall, and look forward to returning next year, when my wife can ride too. It may even become a regular part of one of our Ohio trips once a year." There were more negative aspects in this TR than most of the others listed.

Snap43's 9-7-03 TR- "All in all probably my best ever SFWOA/Geauga Lake visit ever, the park actually seemed clean the ride ops were slow but not as mean as in years past, last year was the worst."

LoriU's 9-13-03 TR- "Little boy - This ride makes my pee pee feel funny." If that doesn't do it for you, nothing will! ;)

Agent Johnson's 10-28-03 TR #1- "This park has turned the corner, and IMO, it is the by far the best balanace of any SF Park." And #2 TR-"Staffing is unbeliveable, outlets and rides are open, and that park can take in money, and move lines. For a SF, service was outstanding. I will be back."

Avalanche Sam's 11-1-03 TR- "Overall, it was a fun night, and the park was all decked out for Halloween. I think the park is finally showing some improvement."

I gave it a great review for 2003 over previous years as well and a couple others did in this thread. Some people had multiple TRs and I tried to pick their latest one. Usually I only want to write a TR is the park was either excellent or horrible and there is only one negative report up there. I'm shocked that so many reports were overall positive this year.

Willing to give them another chance? Anyone?

-Danny

Danny: So that's supposed to erase and invalidate everyone else's experiences? If an enthusiast doesn't care to go back, you can only imagine what the feelings are among the general public, who think Dragster is 500 feet tall and Superman is exactly the same as Wicked Twister.

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Chitown said:
Jeff, I really don't understand this safety thing that you refer to when it comes to SFWoA? Why would they cut back on things that jeopardize guests safety? Thats just business suicide.

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You're preaching to the choir my friend. A friend of mine (who ironically later worked at the park in maintenance) thought it was so bad on a visit in 2000 (or 2001) that he actuall called the state. The results were the surprise visits and fines that followed. We saw ride ops permit a kid around 36" ride Big Dipper, trains sail through the station on Wolf Kabobs because the operator didn't set the brake, a sleeping ride op (on the platform) between cycles of Mind Eraser, and enough tripping hazards on the Batman platform that it's no wonder someone fell through the floor. *** Edited 12/24/2003 2:17:14 AM UTC by Jeff***

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Agent Johnson said:
Enthusiasm. That is a new word that SF has to check into and implement it to everone. Kieran, are you still reading these comments?

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Reading...perhaps. Comprehending...well, we've heard 2004 will reflect a new attitude at SFI, one that shows their customers a new pride in their parks....hospitality even.

AJ, for my money, it all comes down to how the employees themselves are treated...time will tell.