Six Flags WoA attendance continues to plummet.
Jeff said:
All of the cool tattoo ideas are played out.
I'm telling ya, EVERYONE needs to encode their game as a barcode, and get that tattooed on their shoulder. Sure would cut down on that whole unnecessary "talking" thing when meeting someone new...
Of course, if everyone got one, then I wouldn't have something almost kinda sorta unique (in a self-admitted-geek sort of way) *** Edited 12/24/2003 10:51:14 PM UTC by GregLeg***
--Greg
"You seem healthy. So much for voodoo."
*IF* there was a similar number of customers with good/bad trips that visited SFWOA in 2003 compared to the number of good/bad Trip Reports on CB, I would say the park is doing something right and *their* word-of-mouth will get around. There's the point. So, if they are indeed doing something right, WTF are people who haven't visited the park since 2001 and 2002 complaining about problems that could be non-existant now?
I know what topic we're on, but SFGAm (adding a major flying coaster) and SFAW (added a unique thrill ride and water ride) dropped 5%, SFOG (nothing) and SFNE (waterpark additions?) 7%, SFA (added water ride) 8%, SFMW (added a steel looper) and SFFT (removed a coaster) 9%, and SFEG 10%. and Who says it's "SFWOA specific" with these problems? Looks like it's being overanalyzed beyond what it's worth, especially since SFWOA is their fourth highest-attended seasonal park. That's after an original SF park (SFOG) and two of the biggest and best (GAm and GAdv). I would call it disappointing, but not a catastrophe in comparison across the chain. The park didn't even add anything major this season beyond waterpark additions. And I hear that was mighty busy when it wasn't raining.
-Danny
The way I would describe some of the staff was indifferent, and a little lax at times. But that's pretty much been what I've found at every SF park. There were also some really nice staff there as well. I certainly didn't feel unsafe, and I'm one of those that had some very bad expereinces with parks like SF:GAdv.
The whole week we were there they were offering admission for $20, maybe in an attempt to lure more people out. It didn't seem to work too well, but it was a nice discount. I hope they pull out of their problems, because I really liked the park, including the coaster linup, animal shows, and overall atmosphere. Maybe things are changing for the better, and will continue to. I hope so. *** Edited 12/25/2003 2:19:25 AM UTC by DILinator***
I will say that the one time I was at SFWoA in 2002 and one time in 2003, (both on a Saturday if I am not mistaken), the weather was perfect, yet, there was virtually no one at that park.
Both of those times resulted in a great day. Had the park been crowded, that would probably have been a different story.
-Sean
Then we complain about the annoying kids that run around the park. They are just that, KIDS. Yes, they can be annoying. But there are annoying people everywhere and you deal with it. So why cant we deal with a couple of annoying kids at the park.
In my experience at many parks, the worst people are the 18-30 stuck-up adults who act like little kids with no common sense. They walk around thinking that since they paid their $40 they must be waited on hand and foot. No where does it say by paying the admission price you are entitled to a personal servant. They put up fights with the ride employees(i know because i was one) because they aren't being served the way they think they should be. Dont they understand that they are 30 other people on the ride that the operators have to attend to? No, becuase they are to stuck-up to notice. These people are at every park...even you beloved Cedar Point.
I guess my point is if you can't deal with different types of people then dont come out you house. Clientel shouldnt be the problem, it is the customer service. If you treat the Guests(not customers) with respect, they will be respectful.
Which brings me to the other point i want to make is that these problems of guest dissatisfation do NOT go back to the old GLP days. GLP was a small, local, somewhat backwards operation but it always delivered on its promises. It had high season pass sales and returns. And most important, it made MONEY.
And i must also disagree with others who posted bad morral comments about the good ol GLP. It wasn't a perfect place where everyone sat around and held hands, but, there was a community there with a set of traditions that were actually passed down through the departments over the years. All of that is lost for the most part. The people who ran GLP are, for the most part, not there anymore. Most were ran out by their BEC counterparts in 2001, or were promoted into corp/other parks or left because of the way things unfolded in 2001. Now outside of Rides, that park is a hodge-podge of different SF types (who may or may not have been with the company very long) and old SWO staff. People are bitter that their park was sold and they weren't invited to another BEC park, or they just don't like amusement parks, or they just are TERRIBLE managers; but it is clear that many of the people in WOA haven't the foggiest how to run a park or manage people. And it becomes more clear evey year as the numbers fall lower and lower.
The point is that this terrible image isn't an old problem. GLP used to be that neat little park you would go to when you didn't have time/money to goto Sandusky (that is if you lived in NE Ohio). But you liked it. SF got into trouble when it over marketed the new park (which they did because they had to start the return on the 110 mil investment) and allowed for the dismissal/loss of the old management that knew the park and its employees AND its company policies best. No group of people had been with the company longer than the old Funtime group, with the exception of those originally with the OK City park.
Noone wants this park to do well more than i, but it will never make the turn with this mix of management with this company.
Fanatic said:
In my experience at many parks, the worst people are the 18-30 stuck-up adults who act like little kids with no common sense. They walk around thinking that since they paid their $40 they must be waited on hand and foot.
That's where things get sticky.
I am in my 30's yet I don't ask for special service or anything like that. I know you didn't say all 18-30 year olds but let me try to chime in here with my opinion.
I do however expect to be treated fairly. If I feel as if I am being treated in a unfair manner, then I will complain to a manger or someone else. Trust me, the complaints I have given to SFWoA were much needed.
Now, I won't go out of my way to make a complaint. As a matter of fact, I don't like complaining nor do I like to spend a bunch of time at parks with complainers. I like to have a good time as much as the next guy. Having said that, I see no reason at all why I should hide to anyone that something was wrong with the way I was treated.
It's up to the park to do something about those legitimate complaints and fix them. I could have listed my specific complaints on here but I see no reason to. It's been said in the past before and I am willing to give the park other chances.
I think some (not all) of the park operators do think people go out of their way to complain. The big questions are :
1. Are these customers just complaning about little stupid things to make park operators mad?
-or-
2. There are so many real legitimate complaints that operators actually believe question #1?
Merry Christmas eveyone!
-Sean
The park's problems, and in particular its decline in attendance, start with the business decisions made by Six Flags, Inc. If you want to be an armchair CEO, it's probably best to start there.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
Fanatic said:
In my experience at many parks, the worst people are the 18-30 stuck-up adults who act like little kids with no common sense. They walk around thinking that since they paid their $40 they must be waited on hand and foot. No where does it say by paying the admission price you are entitled to a personal servant.
Thank goodness I'm 33. I wouldn't want to be lumped into the snotty amusement park goers. $40 is a lot of money to some people, and when you're bringing the whole family, it's a major chunk of change. Realize when you're in a service position such as being a ride op/attendant, that the customer is right (well, most of the time). If they're not treated well as a guest, they will go somewhere else.
Seriously....the park does suffer from all of the above issues, but I feel the park has made a tremendous effort this past season. I'm sure management is starting to see the 'madness in their ways' has to stop. The thing is, a complete turn around won't happen overnight. It will take some time to get their demographics back to the park regularly again. As long as they can stay focused on providing a respectable service to their customers, the park will succeed. It has too much potential not to.
Wood - anything else is an imitation
Still, I admit that I was a bit underwhelmed. Too many rides closed and above average cost of refreshments, mixed with an OK upkeep of the grounds and mostly indifferent staff for my taste. No desire to return but if I were in the area, I would use my SP to go again.
--------------
Robo- one of the "wrong people" (in all the right ways;))
Sea World Ohio also had their "Summer Nights" program... offering a reduced admission after 6:00 pm and a lineup of special night shows that usually ended with a firework and laser show in the Water Ski Stadium. SFWoA doesn't offer a discounted admission after 5:00 pm, and night shows are pretty much non-existant on the Wild Life side, so those that didn't choose to buy a Season Pass have to pay full price whenever they go.
I'm not saying this would help the park out attendance-wise, but i have a feeling that many of the locals who were put off by the high admission price may be willing to give the place a try if there was a "Starlight" admission plan. CP's Starlight admission pass is still offered, and many other parks offer it as well, so it must be successful.
ray p.
That is something that has to happen again, but they are a few years off.
Jeff said:
I don't understand why people keep shifting the convsersation to external factors (like the type of guest that visits the park). All of this nonsense about who is annoying and who has ridiculous expectations and who is this or that is not relevant.The park's problems, and in particular its decline in attendance, start with the business decisions made by Six Flags, Inc. If you want to be an armchair CEO, it's probably best to start there.
Jeff, I understand where you are coming from but the internal and external factors go hand in hand. The business decision of setting ticket prices has a direct impact on who comes to the park. (Disney taught me that in a not-so-subtle way years ago.)
I want to go on record as saying that there are good people who work at WoA. However, some of the people who remain in the highest authority positions have not shown themselves to be worthy of continued support.
Had Cedar Fair purchased Geauga Lake instead of Premier I suspect some of the old hangovers from the Funtime days would have been long gone by now.
You are an idiot. From the comments I made you have decided that I am a racist? I never said anything about race. I did, however, say something about age and in particular groups of kids who roam around the park.
Sometime back in the mid-90's Geauga Lake supported a move to provide a bus stop at the entrance to the park. It was their thinking that they could pull from a larger base of available people for employees. This did happen but it also made it easier for kids to get to the park and run around all day without parental supervision. You don't see this at Disney or Cedar Point, at least not to the extreme it is seen at WoA/Sea World.
There is no doubt in my mind that there was a change in the feel of the park after that bus stop was put in. It isn't about white kids, black kids or green kids, it is just about groups of unsupervised kids.
mlariccy, there aren't metal detectors at Cedar Point, Walt Disney World, Universal Studios. Why then does WoA need them? Seriously, please explain that to me.
As for your points. I have said all along that I think combining the two parks was a bad idea. I said that before it was even made public.
You say complaints are down. Well sure they are. Attendance is down. It is a no-brainer that less people means less complaints as well as less comments of appreciation.
The same company that owns WoA owns all of the other Six Flags parks and this is the one that faces the most serious criticism. I tried to address some of the issues with a thought-provoking discussion.
You decided your best defense for the park was to lash out and call me a racist. Who is the ignorant one?
I apologize for the ignorant comments. There are allot of people out there that are racists and sound a bit like that post. It was my mistake and I apologize. I was in the wrong.
Yes, complaints going down with attendance may indicate a correlation. However, complaints were way down, cut in half. In certain areas, (overall cleanliness) the comments had turned from positive to negative.
SWOA had metal detectors because all Six Flags parks were given them after September 11. Was it an overreaction to the attacks? I think so, but corporate thought it would be a good safety measure. If other parks don't do that, it is their choice. Many guests say, "this is annoying, but thank you, I feel safer."
The reason this park is not successful is all corporate. They made the choice to combine both parks in 2 months, they are the ones that cut the budget for the park and force managers and supervisors to operate their departments with minimal staff.
In 2001 when both parks were combined, a crummy product was sold. People were turned off and have not given the park a second chance, I don't balme them. The 2001 season pushed so many people away that were the original clientel for both parks, (Sea World families) (Folks looking for a cheap alternaive to CP) were driven away. Sea World folks saw their beloved park truned into a shadow of itself and GL folks had their little park blown up in size and ticket price.
I wrote a ten page paper for a class of mine on why the park is not successful. The above paragraph sort of sums it up. The thing to remember is this all corporates fault, they hand down reduced budgets, crummy policies, and lack of care for the park.
I agree, but the "external factors" I'm talking about are the nonsense about what enthusiasts do or don't do in particular. Even then, when you talk about the composition of park guests and such, just as you said, it was decisions made that led to that. The guests themselves are not the issue.
wahoo skipper said:
Jeff, I understand where you are coming from but the internal and external factors go hand in hand. The business decision of setting ticket prices has a direct impact on who comes to the park.
That's nonsense. The corporate office isn't the one interacting with guests on a daily basis. While they might make the job more difficult, seasonals with attitudes who don't care are seasonals with attitudes who don't care. I'd rather they took responsibility for what they do. *** Edited 12/29/2003 4:26:46 PM UTC by Jeff***
The thing to remember is this all corporates fault, they hand down reduced budgets, crummy policies, and lack of care for the park.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
Employees that don't care seem to be the park's fault. Employees with attitudes seem to be the guest/customer's fault. The park doesn't care about you, so you don't care about them. Customer's are rude to you, so you're rude to them. At least in my experiences people feel that way. Thank the higher ups at the park for not caring. Thank your fellow guests for being idiots.
-Danny
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
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