Six Flags WoA attendance continues to plummet.

If they could always and only hire the right people, they wouldn't be in the situation they're in. You have to take what you can get and the cream of the crop isn't always standing in front of you for selection. Not everyone wants to work at Six Flags. At least not under the conditions they offer. It's nice to see friendly, helpful employees and there are certain parks I expect it at. I know from seeing the differences at CP to Dorney to Knott's that the parks and employees aren't managed and taught in the same way (or much at all for that matter). I never said anything about people as high up as corporate setting the tone. Afterall, Great America is one of the best parks overall I've ever been to.

-Danny

It's not about Knott's or Dorney. It might be about Cedar Point because they share a market, but then you have to look at why CP does have the right people, or at the very least, trains them correctly. Several posts have addressed that.

Honestly, with Akron, Kent, Youngstown, John Carroll, Baldin-Wallace, Case, Mount Union, Ursuline, etc. all in the relative neighborhood, how many of these schools is Six Flags recruiting from?

The right people are out there, but you have to find them and offer them a rewarding environment. That's true in any business if you intend to produce a quality product.

The difference in how employees are at Knott's, Dorney, and CP shows how they're different at Great America, Worlds of Adventure, and St. Louis. I was agreeing with you in that the park management not chain management is a much more important factor and influence to the employees of each individual park's actions.

Now, is CP one of the few parks that really hit a high mark on training where *several* SF parks and other CF parks aren't up to the same standards? Is the main reason SFWOA should have better training due to CP being in the same market? That's also where my question came much earlier in the thread about Kennywood's employees being less-than-stellar. They're in the same market. Kennywood's attendance was down this year and much lower than SFWOA's. Right, who cares about KW? They're not who we're talking about. But if we're comparing how employees are trained in the same market and how well attendance is at those parks, we might as well. You may have not seen problems at KW, but I know others who have.

SFWOA could be going to all, most, or just a few of the schools. I really don't know. I don't know what they're offering either and it would be nice to hear from people who have worked there how management has been and how happy they were with the job.

If they keep it up the way they did in 2003, I won't have anything to argue about in 2005 or whenever people return for a major ride. They should be able to speak for themselves.

-Danny

Call me crazy, but I just go for the coasters..

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Koaster King said:
The difference in how employees are at Knott's, Dorney, and CP shows how they're different at Great America, Worlds of Adventure, and St. Louis...

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Again, what does that have to do with the quality of employees available in the Cleveland market? I thought I was pretty clear in that. There are quality people all over Northeast Ohio, including at Cedar Point, and apparently none of them work at Six Flags. Why is that?

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Is the main reason SFWOA should have better training due to CP being in the same market?

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In a service-oriented business it should be the best possible regardless of who your competition is. That's why people come back. When you get it wrong, they don't come back. When you get it wrong and your competition does it exceptionally well, then you're even more screwed. It really isn't rocket science.

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That's also where my question came much earlier in the thread about Kennywood's employees being less-than-stellar. They're in the same market.

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What you've heard about KW aside, Kennywood is certainly not in the same market. It's a small regional park. Most people in Cleveland have never heard of it, couldn't find it, and the park doesn't market here. I've lived here my entire life and didn't hear of it until I was 25, when I became "enthusiastic." Only idiots like us brave the Pittsburgh traffic to go there.

Koaster King, if my memory serves, Kennywood's attendance is up from last year. I think it moved from 48th to 46th on the AB's list of the top 50 attendance parks.

And I'll leave it at that as my answers to this have run out. Really good points.

edit: You're right Lost Phantom. I just saw "coming off 'terrible year'" in my head and thought they were down. They were actually "up slightly", so excellent for them.

-Danny *** Edited 12/30/2003 3:34:41 AM UTC by Koaster King***

The reason CP has better (older) employees is simple. SWOA does not have housing available for college students. With CP you can live in the vicinity of the park in housing owned by CP at dirt cheap prices. SWOA does not offer housing for employees, so it is not as attractive to college students. They did recruit heavily, (they came to my college), its how they got me). Instead high shcool students from Cleveland and the suburbs are hired.

With college students you are dealing with people that seek leadership oppurtunites or the chance of resume builders. High school students typically do not care as much. You also have older more mature people when you deal with college students.

I live in the area so it works for me. CP allows students from everywhere to live on property. Six Flags does not and college towns are sparse in the summer. I know I lived in my town in the summer. The way to get better employees at SWOA is to have housing available to college students near the park at cheap prices.

By the way on site management cannot control their employees all the time. Not to mention if they were allowed to hire more supervisors (corporate budget handed down) they could have more supervision for the emplyees. BTW many and I mean many people are fired each season for moronic behavior.

To try to pass the blame from the WOA management to the corporate is incomprehensible to me. Management certainly has the ability to use budgeted dollars on more supervisors if needed. That i know for a fact. Corporate Six Flags doesn't care how they spend the money as long as it fits in the budget. The management at WOA has no ability to control its spending. Period. I've worked with and for these people; I've seen them in action.

Again the attitude and professionalism displayed by the "Team Member" at a park is a direct reflection of the people managing them in 90% of the induviduals working at the park. Poor service is the direct fault of the management on site.

GLP never had a large number of college employees. It isn't realistic for a college aged induvidual to pass up a number of opportunities in the Cleveland area for potential job growth in their field of study, to sweat it out in an amusement park. A good product has and can be achieved with a predominately high school aged staff.

On site housing doens't seem like an issue, to me anyway. I use to work for a company that hired highschool and college kids in the summers. It all depends on who you attract and who you hire. Both can be great employees, eager to learn and do a good job, on the other hand both can be completely worthless.

Housing has been mentioned a lot and there is something we need to keep in mind. Even with the cheap, abundant housing that Cedar Point offers they still can't get American kids to fill all of the positions each summer. They end up going out and hiring 1,000 or more kids from overseas each year.

What does that tell us then? It tells me that working in an amusement park isn't as "cool" as it once was, or there are a lot more jobs the college kids are taking because of more money, better work environment, etc.

I would argue that the supervisors and managers have a greater impact on the attitude and behaviors of the front line employees than you might think.

My family owns a business that relies almost exclusively on high school help. Now, if we decided we would put them to work and then head out and leave them to sink or swim you might expect their enthusiasm would disappear. Instead, we train them well, develop relationships with them, work side-by-side with them, and they we have earned their respect.

When I worked at CP I made sure I showed all of my employees that I could do all of the jobs they did. I wouldn't ask them to do anything I wouldn't do. I stood up for them when they were treated unfairly. In return they worked hard for me and made me look better.

A good employee doesn't necessarily make a good manager. I think that people often move up in companies for the wrong reasons and that may be part of the problem at WoA.

I would actually say the majority of the woa employees this year were college age. It doesnt matter who is working for you, motivate them well and they will work hard. In the cases where motivation doesnt work, you demote them from important jobs.

You cant let a unfriendly person deal with customers. How long would a restaraunt full of six flags employees last?

Rewards for keeping up ride capacity and friendlyness. Frequent shift changes, ride rotations for the non coaster people... job rotation. Anyone who presses a button all day is gonna be grumpy after 8 hours, but rotate them around and give them their breaks on time and they will be much happier and eager to do well for the company.

And what wahoo said above is right, as a manager dont ask your employees to do the **** you dont want to do. As a manager you need to work that much harder, lead as an example. *** Edited 12/30/2003 3:42:33 PM UTC by eightdotthree***

I can only speak from my experience working at SFAW but back in the 70's and early 80's, the park had to turn away applicants and put them on waiting list. I used to commute an hour each way to work at SFAW. It was "The" place to work. Most employees were college and High School students that had thier own transportation and commuted from all over the Houston Metro area.

Then times changed. More jobs were available in the "Fringe City". Six Flags could not compete salary wise with the malls and other retail establishments and there were less employees commuting and more relying on public transportation. So if you had a car, you could pick your job and if you were stuck using the Bus, you picked a job that the Metro could get you to. This in affect made SFAW a job that you had no choice in, not a job that was coveted by teens across the area.

I think higher wages and bonuses ala Cedar Point would help. We have University of Houston, TSU, St. Thomas, and a bunch of community colleges that could be recruited from all fairly close to the park.

It does start at the park Level. When Dell Holland was GM, he would fire anyone who he saw not picking up trash as they walked. And there would be 10 people ready to take that place.

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eightdotthree said:

Rewards for keeping up ride capacity and friendlyness. Frequent shift changes, ride rotations for the non coaster people... job rotation. Anyone who presses a button all day is gonna be grumpy after 8 hours, but rotate them around and give them their breaks on time and they will be much happier and eager to do well for the company.

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I couldn't agree any more with what you said. Frequent shift changes at SFWoA? It's not going to happen but it's a good idea. Ride rotations don't happen that much either - you're in your area all day, most of the time on the same ride with the same job. After working there for the end of the season I see how grumpy and childish some people can be. Maybe it's attitudes related to what has been mentioned here and above.

What does everyone think about the wildlife shows?What do you think the best show is?