CoastaPlaya said:
Wolf:Independently-owned parks climb farther out on a limb than a publicly owned corporation should. Look at the punishment SF got from the market for wheeling and dealing in speculative fashion. Besides, there's no comparing a $2-3 million bet to a gamble more than triple the size.
And what gives you the silly idea that a big coaster is the answer? PKI draws crowds just fine with family attractions--kiddie coasters, rethemed flumes, flat rides--to an audience that could just as soon drive to CP.
PKI has also built 3 coasters in that time frame, including a LIM-launched and the biggest woodie in the world [a looping hyper, no less] so what's your point?
In 1998, I would say Mich Adv's attendance was somewhere around half of where it is now. They could afford, 1:1 a 9M expenditure.
Plus, and this is a point that has been frequently forgot, I think -- they've been promised a hyper in the future. And heck, they've got the room.
Go-karts, train, and BeBop all came from storage, btw.
And if they want to get per-cap up, lower the darned T-shirt prices. I got a shirt at Indiana Beach for $15 less than the cheapest decent-looking thing at Michigan's Adventure. That annoyed me.
Ether way couldn't they modify the train on a Morgan to use this system which would save on cost. That is to say if they got a Morgan and no new ones have been built since Phantoms Revenge (Guess you could say it's not new but a re-profiling)
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WARNING:
You are no longer who you were and tomorrow is now yesterday. In the event of an emergency, do not become alarmed. Move Quickly to the nearest exit.
*** This post was edited by Goku2216 5/30/2003 2:37:24 AM ***
The train ride and BeBop Blvd. just sit in an unlandscaped field. Other rides look like they were stolen from the county fair.
The park was so small, it wouldn't take a hypercoaster or even an impulse to create a highlight ride. If I were them, I'd make an offer on PGA's Greased Lighning. Short of that, I'd certainly go for a small S&S drop ride, say 185 feet or so.
My point is that you can't go from being a tiny park with a trio of mediocre wooden coasters to an regional destination with towering steel rides. Its a gradual process, one which MiA has hardly begun.
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The Trip: CP, SFWoA, PKI, KW, HW, IB, SFGAm, MiA and LeSourdsville too.
8 Days- 10 parks. May 2003
Wolf: I didn't name a timeframe for PKI, but I will now.
2001: PKI rethemes flume, adds kiddie Coaster
2002: CP adds WT, PKI adds Tomb Raider
2003: CP adds TTD, PKI adds Delirium
So there's my point. Pffffffffffffffffft goes that argument. And that's before I mention CP's 2002 addition of--gasp--a family attraction! Heaven forbid!
CF promised? Promised who? Is CF a corporate entity or somebody's mommy? They'll give any park a budget when they can prove by the numbers and their track record that they can get ROI within an acceptable time frame. Not one minute before.
Moving beyond silly to disturbing is the fact that you're greedy enough to whine and complain, but too cheap to actually get out your wallet and do anything. Sure, IB is cheaper--and IB's last $5 million cap expansion was when? What gives you the idea any MiA prices would drop if they got approval for a hyper?
Of course, the oft-repeated, plain-and-simple, common sense statement that MiA didn't hit their goals after their $5 million cap ex year (or was it 6?) either sails in one ear and out the other or clunks into too much thick skull to penetrate. One after the other, reasonable people who can count on their fingers and read come to the same logical conclusion except you. Why is that?
-CO
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
*** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya 5/30/2003 9:20:51 AM ***
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I pray that the next coaster @ CP will be an Arrow 4D
*** This post was edited by Coaster Bob 5/30/2003 12:30:54 PM ***
As for me not liking MiA's woodies, well the way they were tracking, I'm not sure anyone would have liked them. Actually, I thought Zach's Zoomer was pretty cool (seriously!).
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The Trip: CP, SFWoA, PKI, KW, HW, IB, SFGAm, MiA and LeSourdsville too.
8 Days- 10 parks. May 2003
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I pray that the next coaster @ CP will be an Arrow 4D
ST was running horribly on opening day. Wolverine Wildcat was just awful (reminded me of Psyclone or Mean Streak).
I was out there on opening day as well, but I don't share your complaints on the rides. Sure, they were a little slow and rough in the morning (what do you expect after a MI winter?), but by afternoon, they were quite good.
I hope you can make it back here once the weather starts behaving and try them once more :)
*** This post was edited by Strijder 5/30/2003 7:40:59 PM ***
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I play in a really awful garage band, but it's still fun.
As far a MIA woddies go ST is not mediocre, WWC was much better when I last rode it (Smoother) and ZZ is not bad for a kiddy coaster.
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WARNING:
You are no longer who you were and tomorrow is now yesterday. In the event of an emergency, do not become alarmed. Move Quickly to the nearest exit.
*** This post was edited by Goku2216 5/30/2003 10:14:36 PM ***
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I pray that the next coaster @ CP will be an Arrow 4D
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WARNING:
You are no longer who you were and tomorrow is now yesterday. In the event of an emergency, do not become alarmed. Move Quickly to the nearest exit.
*** This post was edited by Goku2216 5/31/2003 1:54:08 AM ***
MiAJon said:
Yep folks, I'm leaking. This is why you can NEVER trust me with anything. A VERY reliable source at Michigan's Adventure kindly let leak as to future plans at the park. Here's the basics:->2004 WILL bring a steel coaster. They wouldn't say what kind, my guess is an Intamin rocket...
->Hotel/Campground as we know is in the works. This is a high point for the park right now, as they want people to stay for more than one day.
->Night hours are another thing the park is looking into. We already know this.
->Land, land, land, land, and more land! The park is attempting to buy land around the park to make the park into it's ultimate goal...
(This next part is from a high official) the park's ultimate goal is to purchase a lot of land and build up the park a LOT! Their model is................. guess who........ CEDAR POINT. I know, I know, you're telling me it'll never be as big as CP, but they say it will. And I trust this person more than I trust myself, so I know it's true. A high official even told this person
Michigan's Adventure is the Cedar Point of tomorrow.
Any questions?
MiA Jon
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Guess who's back... MIA JON!
Everyone is talking about how expensive a hyper will be. Buying more land when the tax assement went up now that is expensive. The overhead for a hotel (outragious). Expanding hours of operation. what's going to draw all these guest to the park to finance these ambitious projects? Marketing 101. World of Mouth is the best form of advertisment. So adding a Hyper and some sitdown resteraunts is a good idea. Not to mention the revenue from souvieneirs.
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SFMM is the mega looper coaster capital of the world while CP is the Hypergigaterra coaster capital of the world
*** This post was edited by Coaster Bob 5/31/2003 2:30:41 PM ***
MrScott
They require advancing wheels once you install a system that can't physically engage and dissengage a brake fin. Now your cost starts to go up. Granted a retractable system like what is used on Xcelrator or Top Thrill Dragster could be done. Also magnetic brake runs tend to need alot more lenght to be effective. Something that alot of coasters don't have the luxury of.
Either way.. you're now talking about an automated retraction system or advancing wheels.. Which of course requires more PLC programming so teh costs tend to rise tather fast. It's a great system if your ride can accommodate them and you have the $$ to modify everything.
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June 11th, 2001 - Gemini 100
VertiGo Rides - 82
Technical Services - 2002-2003
Frightzone Screamster - 2002-2003
*** This post was edited by Red Garter Rob 6/1/2003 10:32:26 AM ***
Back OT: I think they should bulk up on some newer flat rides before adding another coaster at MiA.
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SW:):)SH
midwestinfoguide.com
scott taylor said:
I was at the park yesterday. Rode Timbers a dozen times. CF needs to do whatever it takes to get attendance/spending up. The park was empty on a Saturday. The only line was to get a burger at the ONE open food stand.MrScott
My point exactly
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SFMM is the mega looper coaster capital of the world while CP is the Hypergigaterra coaster capital of the world
CoastaPlaya said:
So there's my point. Pffffffffffffffffft goes that argument. And that's before I mention CP's 2002 addition of--gasp--a family attraction! Heaven forbid!CF promised? Promised who? Is CF a corporate entity or somebody's mommy? They'll give any park a budget when they can prove by the numbers and their track record that they can get ROI within an acceptable time frame. Not one minute before.
Cedar Point owner buys Michigan's Adventure The park's founder says
the deal ensures a bright future for the popular attraction.
Dave Alexander / Grand Rapids Press News Service
05/07/2001
The Grand Rapids Press
3 - Chase
Page A1
(Copyright 2001)
MUSKEGON -- Michigan's Adventure Amusement Park -- one of West
Michigan's leading tourist attractions -- will be sold to Cedar Fair
L.P., the public company that owns Cedar Point in Sandusky, Ohio, and
four other amusement parks.
Michigan's Adventure owner Roger Jourden announced the pending deal
this morning, but no price was disclosed. He estimated that the deal
would be closed sometime this summer.
"This is a personal decision, a business decision and a life
decision," Jourden said today. "I started this 33 years ago. I have
mixed emotions, but my wife wants me to retire and it is time to back
off in life."
Early this morning, Cedar Fair officials were not discussing the
Michigan's Adventure deal. However, Jourden said the deal will ensure
that his amusement park will continue operating and growing.
"This is a marketing thing for Cedar Point," Jourden said. "Michigan's
Adventure will not grow as large as Cedar Point, but they did say they
will put in our planned steel roller coaster for 2002."
Jourden, who began Michigan's largest amusement park in 1968 when he
purchased a deer petting zoo, will receive limited partnership units
in Cedar Fair. Cedar Fair is a publicly traded company on the New York
Stock Exchange.
Over the course of the past 33 years,
Jourden has built a family-owned and operated amusement business that
draws nearly 500,000 people to the park between Muskegon and
Whitehall.
Michigan's Adventure today is known for its signature ride, Shivering
Timbers -- a nearly mile-long, 125-foot-high wooden roller coaster
that has been given critical acclaim worldwide since it opened in
1999. The park has dozens of other rides, including two other major
roller coasters, and Wild Water Adventure, a 20- attraction water
park.
Jourden's daughter, Camille Jourden-Mark, is the park's general
manager, and son-in-law Steve Mark is the operations manager. Jourden
said his children will remain with the park, but Cedar Fair will
appoint a new general manager after the deal is closed.
All other employees will continue with the new owners, he said. The
park employs 600 at the height of the summer season.
Or click here.
Moving beyond silly to disturbing is the fact that you're greedy enough to whine and complain, but too cheap to actually get out your wallet and do anything. Sure, IB is cheaper--and IB's last $5 million cap expansion was when? What gives you the idea any MiA prices would drop if they got approval for a hyper?
Actually, I've spent more this year at Michigan's Adventure than I have at Indiana Beach, and was one of those who was actually there over Memorial Day weekend. That said, $26 for a T-shirt is still too much.
Of course, the oft-repeated, plain-and-simple, common sense statement that MiA didn't hit their goals after their $5 million cap ex year (or was it 6?) either sails in one ear and out the other or clunks into too much thick skull to penetrate. One after the other, reasonable people who can count on their fingers and read come to the same logical conclusion except you. Why is that?-CO
So explain to me why you've accepted the proposition that MIAdv would be getting a steel coaster for next year? Perhaps some pot-kettle name-calling has occured.
*** This post was edited by Wolf 6/3/2003 2:41:58 AM ***
Of course, there was no hyper in 2002. I think most of us have figured that out. I think.
And of course, it's always amusing how you choose to single out one failed factoid and omit others, like this gem when they didn't get that 2002 hyper....
While Cedar Fair is committed to further upgrades in the future, the scope and level of subsequent investments will depend on how well annual capital improvements are received, Witherow said. "We'll work year to year and see how the market reacts this year and certainly build off of that," he said.
Oops, almost forgot....or cleek here.
Sounds a lot like what I've told you over and over and over, doesn't it? Huh? Well?
As for what I said earlier about MiA still hyper-lusting, let me put this in little tiny words again...Read and comprehend before posting. I think it explains itself quite well. Ask a friend to help you.
-CO
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
*** This post was edited by CoastaPlaya 6/3/2003 10:45:43 AM ***
Closed topic.