Kings Island Fast Lane

Perhaps I lack empathetic emotion on the subject because I didn't grow up as one of the 'rich kids' and can count on one hand the number of times my family went to an amusement park with fingers left to spare...and yet I somehow survived.

My problem is that when we get to the touchy feely aspect of it there are WAY bigger things than amusement parks to worry about people not having access to.

There is way more to enjoy in life than money. But if you want to enjoy an amusement park, it's going to require money to some degree. That varying degree will include and exclude certain segments of people. It'd be nice if we could all have everything, but we can't.

I'm still not one of the 'rich kids' although I think some people get that impression from my comments. I just keep a realistic perspective. Wishing for gumdrops and rainbows isn't going to get us anywhere. Understanding the reality of the situation and finding a way to best acclimate and adjust to thrive in it will.

That's where I see what I think is the fundamental difference in people's responses and perspectives on the subject.

Lord Gonchar said:
My problem is that when we get to the touchy feely aspect of it there are WAY bigger things than amusement parks to worry about people not having access to.

I do agree with that 100% and believe we have lots of work to do in terms of ensuring access to things like food, shelter and health care to the less fortunate among us. Although since it's a coaster forum, I figured I'd just stick to the amusement parks aspect. :)

There already is "tiered" pricing at some parks.

Knoebels is one.. Pay per ride, P.O.P wristband that gets you on most rides, and then the P.O.P plus coasters wristband for the rest.

I'm sure there are others. Don't be surprised if this takes off at the big parks. Pay a price to get in, then pay additional fees to ride the "premium" rides.

I have a problem with this statement:

"Every guest pays for admission in some form (day ticket or annual pass) and deserves to have the same experience"

First, I'm not sure I agree that everyone deserves to have the same experience, because--and I know this has been mentioned before, probably by Gonch--few people are paying the same admission price at the gate.

Second, even if they were paying the same price, no one has the 'same experience' at an amusement park whether they're handing over more cash for cut-the-line passes or not. I could have six rides on Roller Coaster 1 in an hour while Dick Loser over there waited 2 hours in line for it and never got on because it e-stopped. Or, Hugh Jass could be enjoying a perfectly cooked filet (it could happen) in a nice sit-down atmosphere while my head is in a trash can liberating the processed twelve dollar burger I just grabbed at the Crap Shack stand.

Fortunately, if I'm at a Cedar Fair park, there are a lot of available trash cans.

You know, I grew up quasi-poor, or at least not well-off. I wouldn't characterize myself as rich in adulthood, but I certainly do OK. The point is, I can appreciate being that kid. That said, poor kids not being able to go to amusement parks doesn't seem like a real tragedy to me. Poor kids not being able to eat, or not having access to quality education certainly bothers me, but amusement parks? Come on.

Thing is, we're not even talking about poor kids not being able to go to the amusement park. We're talking about poor kids potentially being less able to power ride their favorite coaster when they do go to the amusement park.

It's not going to prevent anyone from riding. The coasters are still going to pump the same amount of people through, just some people are going to have to wait less than others.

I think I just broke another keyboard with my forehead.

+1 Jeff.

My biggest fear with pay-to-cut is that it may become a slippery slope. The day may come where one pays either $50 to ride three rides, and another pays $350 for all-day unlimited rides.

I don't know how we can celebrate that.

Dude, now you're just being dramatic.

I think when you get right down to it, the biggest fear I see here is the destruction of the P-O-P system. That in itself is neither a good nor a bad thing; the amusement industry survived for many decades without P-O-P, many carnivals continue to operate without P-O-P, and even Knoebel's, an enthusiast favorite park, offers P-O-P only grudgingly, charging an inflated rate that is more than you are likely to spend in tickets without working very hard at it, and intentionally reducing ride capacity when POP is offered (also not distributing brass rings on the carousel during POP).

But what feels so wrong about it is that we can envision a future in which we have effectively gone back to the old ticket system...but the remnants of P-O-P remain as a sort of enhanced general admission. The result is a combination that is sort of the worst of both worlds: the high general admission cost of the P-O-P system, combined with the ticket handling and inconvenience of pay-per-ride. Would you feel better Travis, if the park gave up the charade and simply abolished P-O-P in favor of a traditional pay-per-ride ticket system?

(Personally, I hate ticket systems. I'll pay extra for P-O-P just so I don't have to deal with it.)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RideMan said:
...and even Knoebel's, an enthusiast favorite park, offers P-O-P only grudgingly, charging an inflated rate that is more than you are likely to spend in tickets without working very hard at it, and intentionally reducing ride capacity when POP is offered (also not distributing brass rings on the carousel during POP).

You've just done the enthusiast equivalent of telling a kid there is no Easter Bunny. :)

Seriously though, this speaks volumes about the presentation/perception part of the equation.

Thing is, though, Knoebels doesn't charge a $30 admission, claim it covers admission to all the rides, and then charge extra if you actually want to ride anything.

The not-entirely-illegitimate fear is that this is where some of the park operators are heading with their pay for play schemes.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

The REAL problem here is that the amusement park industry is getting SO greedy and starting to upcharge everything right and left. King's Island is a great example, with all of its upcharge attractions in place of flat rides that used to be in the park. This is yet just another VERY high priced upcharge which definitely changes the daily experience for the average guest.

I have been to the park a couple times since this was implemented and the lines are definitely moving slower.

RideMan said:
Would you feel better Travis, if the park gave up the charade and simply abolished P-O-P in favor of a traditional pay-per-ride ticket system?

(Personally, I hate ticket systems. I'll pay extra for P-O-P just so I don't have to deal with it.)

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I would feel okay about a ticket system as long as they don't offer red tickets for the "stand-by" line, yellow tickets for the "wait-your-turn virtual queue" line, and green tickets for the "cut-whenever-you-want-to line". :)

Actually, Knoebels could make a killing off of upgraded ticket plans. lol

Edited to add... Or they could just charge different ticket amounts to ride...

Twister pricing:

Stand-by - Four tickets

Virtual Queue - Eight tickets

Front-of-the-line access - Twelve tickets.

..Just typing that infuriates me (in a funny way).

If Holiday World ever went to tickets per ride, the following would apply for Voyage:

Break your neck - Four tickets

Crack minimum of 2 ribs - Eight tickets

Only sore muscles - Twelve tickets.

Now wait a minute, this may not be Voyages finest year, but really? To suggest a park would vary the safety of a ride based on how much you pay...

It would be an interesting experiment if instead of Fast Lane you walk up to a ride and you see a sign "The wait from this point is 90 minutes. Why Wait? Just hand $5.00 to the friendly greeter to be expressed right onto the next train"

Tis a joke Dave... I actually enjoyed the hell out of Voyage.. rough, but a fun ride.

But I'm sure a park may implement something like that in the future.. Front row will cost XX dollars, rear row X dollars and anything in the middle is part of the POP plan..

Coasterville Dave said:

It would be an interesting experiment if instead of Fast Lane you walk up to a ride and you see a sign "The wait from this point is 90 minutes. Why Wait? Just hand $5.00 to the friendly greeter to be expressed right onto the next train"

Didn't SFOG try that in 2006 with Golitah? I thought I remember reading for $5 you got to go in the Flashpass entrance even without using a Flashpass.

PPFOL (pay per front of line) would be pretty neat. Just seems logistically difficult.