Inverted w/ lapbars

Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:10 AM
Do you think there will ever be an inverted coaster without OTSRs or horse collars? even the arrow suspendeds have horsecollars that aren't really needed. Will they ever just put lapbars on them?
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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 7:18 AM
I have to disagree with you assesment that suspendeds dont need OTSRs, the way that good rides (ie BBW) swings your back would be twisted in strange directions if there was no OTSRs.

I dont think you will see it, for one thing what are you going to attach the bar to, since their is no floor/not enough room in the car for them. Inverts would have to have some bar come down from above or it would have to be anchored to the car in front of it (and not interurpt loading/unloading, I dont see that occuring.

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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 7:39 AM
Umm.... look at the swinging inverted water coasters (Flying Super Saturator).....
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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 7:54 AM
Oops, forgot about those. It still doesnt negate the argument that the laterals will be too strong on non junior coasters.
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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:44 AM
Not necessarily. Coaster designers could design their rides with lower laterals through loops and inversions.
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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:58 AM
I doubt you will see an inverted coaster without OTSRs. Even if it were hypotheticaly possible, parks would want to cover their rears.
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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:57 AM
Have you ever heard of Runaway Reptar/Silver Streak at the Paramount parks?
They're inverted and they have just lap bars...

...then again, they're "Vekoma Junior Inverts", so they don't really do anything more than just a few drops, a helix & some other turns...

...then again, if it did indeed do anything else more than that, would it really be safe? Would inverted coasters that DO inversions, make sense to have lap-bars? Especially when you can sometimes get some hang-time on the rear seats? I dont think so!

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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:06 AM
Considering most inverted and suspended coasters highlight positive Gs over negative Gs I don't see a reason why lap-bars wouldn't work.

*** Edited 3/31/2004 4:15:04 PM UTC by Mamoosh***

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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:29 AM

DawgByte II said:
Have you ever heard of Runaway Reptar/Silver Streak at the Paramount parks?
They're inverted and they have just lap bars...

No.
http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery1897.htm?Picture=6

-Nate *** Edited 3/31/2004 3:29:31 PM UTC by coasterdude318***

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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:42 AM

Mamoosh said:
Considering most inverted and suspended coasters highlight positive Gs over negative Gs I don't see a reason why lap-bars would work.
Did you mean you 'don't see a reason why lap-bars wouldn't work'? *** Edited 3/31/2004 3:42:29 PM UTC by Vater***
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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:15 AM
Oops...yes, Vater ;)
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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:48 AM
i think that lap bars would work for an inverted ride, but that the coaster will not be very fast, have very many elements, or be all that fun...though i would give it a try
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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:29 PM
And you base that conclusion on what?
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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:37 PM
I don't think high laterals on inverted coasters is a strong argument. If The Chiller can have lapbars, then any invert out there can!
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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:37 PM
Um...yeah :)

You can't get out of those lap bar only cars even if you have to! (I remember reading about people trying hard and failing at Iaapa. I don't see any reason why any B&M couldn't run with a proper lapbar setup. In fact, it might even be more "safe"...I've seen people slip out of B&M, Intamin, and Arrow OTSRs who have tried!

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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:01 PM
Yes, Peabody, I remember the guys at the Setpoint booth making exactly that argument. Someone asks, "Where are the shoulder bars? Won't someone slip out?" In response, they put the person in the seat close the lap bar, and ask, "How?"

It's a geometry problem, folks, and lap bars can solve the problem just fine if you implement them right. And there are many ways to implement them right.

Meanwhile, the artist's drawings for Rugrat's Runaway Reptar Roller Coaster (Vekoma junior inverted) at Kings Island showed Setpoint-type seats, but the ride has shoulder bars. It's the only ride where I watched an operator tell a kid to keep his hands outside throughout the ride. A kid can climb out through the middle of those shoulder bars. If it were a lap bar, he'd have nothing to pull against to climb out.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:35 PM
I honestly thought the moment PKI and PKD converted their Flight of Fear trains would have put an end to any question about the need for OTSRs on just about anything.
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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:38 PM
Yep, and chiller/freeze sealed the deal with their backwards inversions, in-line rolls, etc
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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:31 PM

Vater said:
I honestly thought the moment PKI and PKD converted their Flight of Fear trains would have put an end to any question about the need for OTSRs on just about anything.

I really hope you didn't truly mean that. "End to any question about the need for OTSR's on just about anything"? Horse-collar restraints are necessary on many amusement rides - it all comes down to the dynamic motions produced by the attraction and how it affects the riders. S&S rides and all free-fall style towers will never operate with just a lapbar and seatbelt restraint configuration. Neither will stand-up coasters, floorless coasters, many traditional looping coasters just because of the way the rides are designed and the way they affect riders.

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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:38 PM
No way man. Almost any ride (sans standups) can operate safely (if not more safely!) with a proper lap bar. Please cite an example of a sitdown coaster that would absolutely require a horsecollar and not be able to operate with a proper lap bar.
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