GL's Steel Venom probably also on it's way out....

Wednesday, January 31, 2007 2:16 PM
As I'm following this thread one question stick in my mind that maybe didn't get answered since I jumped to the end to write this.

What kind of problems was SV having? It sounds like it's the only of the type with them.

Coasterkid - VF already has a SV of their own. If not pointed out by sombody else before me.


Thanks for another great season, VF!

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Wednesday, January 31, 2007 3:02 PM
they could be taking it out this year, and then relocating it somewhere else in the park for 2008.
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Wednesday, January 31, 2007 3:03 PM
GL's SV (originally known as Superman:Ultimate Escape if I remember correctly) was the first of its kind in North America. VF's SV was the last. There were obviously engineering 'improvements' made between--and after--each installation.

So in theory, VF's SV should have the fewest problems and GL's would have suffered the most from Intamin's miscalculations. Or at the absolute minimum, had the most time to sway back and forth.

-'Playa


NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.

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Wednesday, January 31, 2007 3:31 PM

Ensign Smith said:
One thing I don't understand: if CF is so hellfire determined to shrink the park, why did they build a huge $30 million waterpark all the way across the lake? They could have taken a few rides out, kept Hurricane Hannah's and perhaps renewed or expanded the wet ride selection, moved a few flats over from Happy Harbor landing, and sold off the entirety of the Sea World property. Voila! Smaller park, tighter footprint, and a tidy chunk of change from a lucrative land sale.

I agree with your theory. For that 30 million, they could have done so much more. They should have moved X-Flight to the other side of the park where that waterpark was supposed to be. Add some Sally dark ride (1.5 million). Remove the Raging Wolf Bobs, and Thunderhawk. Buy a B&M Invert (13 million), and a Gestauler Euro-Fighter (6 million) (that isn't crazy themed like Dollywood), Power Surge (remove Inverter), used Tilt-A-Whirl (again), used Cliffhanger (129,000), used Orbiter (blah carnival ride blah) and a used Himilaya (type of ride). Remove the Motion Simulator.

GL is fixed besides Villian!! I think for Head Spin people would have to bear even though I like it. It's rough though!! It's amazing what they could have done with 30 million. There plan didn't work, and they are removing rides. Shock! If half of the roller coasters are rough, people are going to come. Period. You can blame it on the animals, but the admission is super cheap. Those people get bored there because they only have flats, Dominator, X-Flight, and Steel Venom. Knock out two, and Dominator is left. Well, now they have a waterpark which should help, but it's on the other side of the park.

I've been there, and I like the park, but some of the rides are way too rough. If they are rough for me, they have to be rough for the general public. I'm talking about the roller coasters. Parks need to go more on the boring side for roller coasters to get people in. If they are all rough, people can't tolerate it. People love Space Mountain at Disneyland. I wonder why? I think it's boring. People love Raging Bull at Great America. I think it's boring. People aren't that crazy about Demon at Great America.

I wonder why? It's kind of rough. You can look at Iron Wolf also. I've been to Cedar Point, and I saw Magnum's line. That line was non-existant. It was at night, but Top Thrill Dragster had a huge line. Maybe, that ride is always packed. I don't know.

The point is GL has the roller coasters for the GP in which some of there lines are minimal. You can put in 20 coasters over there but if they are all rough rides, who in the heck is going to go on them besides the enthusiasts that want to rack up the coaster count.

Look at Cedar Point in reference to what I say are rough rides. I know Magnum, and Corkscrew are the roughest. What else is there? Mean Streak is a joke for being rough. Maybe, it was the trims, but I was bored out of my mind. Just maybe, you can add Blue Streak, but it did rough you up in a straight line, and I do greatly care about that ride.

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Wednesday, January 31, 2007 3:40 PM
eightdotthree's avatar Most of the removals have come from the same area of the park, leads me to believe they have a plan for the area. The new water park is a step towards making the park a smaller more regional park thats a great value for families and less of a destination park that Six Flags was trying to make it.

Even with the removals I think I would still be buying a GL season pass if it were my home park. I buy two Sandcastle season passes every year and go to Kennywood a number of evenings in the summer and fall. Why wouldn't I do the same at GL, kick but water park, a couple kick but coasters!


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Wednesday, January 31, 2007 3:43 PM
I think getting rid of a couple surplus rides and putting them in to other parks, is a good idea. It doesent only help the one park it helps the park which gets the new rides. CF knows whats it's doing and GL is a big park which could afford to lose 2 coasters and try to get a family feel.

Timbers crew 08

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Wednesday, January 31, 2007 4:16 PM
Jason Hammond's avatar

WildThingNative said:
What kind of problems was SV having?

From what I heard, the LIM's became misalligned. Then one early summer morning last year they launched the coaster for a test run and CRUNCH.


854 Coasters, 34 States, 7 Countries
http://www.rollercoasterfreak.com My YouTube

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Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:52 PM
^ I can't imagine how horrid the sound that must have made. Launching a ride at speeds approaching 70 mph only for a few misaligned staters to block the way...
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Wednesday, January 31, 2007 8:02 PM
Send the bloody thing to Dorney Park already!!! :)

Haha no I'm not giving Patrick the finger

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Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:08 PM

Ilovthevu' said:

Ensign Smith said:
One thing I don't understand: if CF is so hellfire determined to shrink the park, why did they build a huge $30 million waterpark all the way across the lake? They could have taken a few rides out, kept Hurricane Hannah's and perhaps renewed or expanded the wet ride selection, moved a few flats over from Happy Harbor landing, and sold off the entirety of the Sea World property. Voila! Smaller park, tighter footprint, and a tidy chunk of change from a lucrative land sale.

I agree with your theory. For that 30 million, they could have done so much more. They should have moved X-Flight to the other side of the park where that waterpark was supposed to be. Add some Sally dark ride (1.5 million). Remove the Raging Wolf Bobs, and Thunderhawk. Buy a B&M Invert (13 million), and a Gestauler Euro-Fighter (6 million) (that isn't crazy themed like Dollywood), Power Surge (remove Inverter), used Tilt-A-Whirl (again), used Cliffhanger (129,000), used Orbiter (blah carnival ride blah) and a used Himilaya (type of ride). Remove the Motion Simulator.

GL is fixed besides Villian!! I think for Head Spin people would have to bear even though I like it. It's rough though!! It's amazing what they could have done with 30 million. There plan didn't work, and they are removing rides. Shock! If half of the roller coasters are rough, people are going to come. Period. You can blame it on the animals, but the admission is super cheap. Those people get bored there because they only have flats, Dominator, X-Flight, and Steel Venom. Knock out two, and Dominator is left. Well, now they have a waterpark which should help, but it's on the other side of the park.

I've been there, and I like the park, but some of the rides are way too rough. If they are rough for me, they have to be rough for the general public. I'm talking about the roller coasters. Parks need to go more on the boring side for roller coasters to get people in. If they are all rough, people can't tolerate it. People love Space Mountain at Disneyland. I wonder why? I think it's boring. People love Raging Bull at Great America. I think it's boring. People aren't that crazy about Demon at Great America.

I wonder why? It's kind of rough. You can look at Iron Wolf also. I've been to Cedar Point, and I saw Magnum's line. That line was non-existant. It was at night, but Top Thrill Dragster had a huge line. Maybe, that ride is always packed. I don't know.

The point is GL has the roller coasters for the GP in which some of there lines are minimal. You can put in 20 coasters over there but if they are all rough rides, who in the heck is going to go on them besides the enthusiasts that want to rack up the coaster count.

Look at Cedar Point in reference to what I say are rough rides. I know Magnum, and Corkscrew are the roughest. What else is there? Mean Streak is a joke for being rough. Maybe, it was the trims, but I was bored out of my mind. Just maybe, you can add Blue Streak, but it did rough you up in a straight line, and I do greatly care about that ride.


I think thats a pretty bad way to spend the money. Move X-Flight to the old Sea World side? That would be pointless. Why not just keep it near the other rides instead of putting it out of reach to the public on the other side of the lake. Also, they won't be removing RWB as it was GL's centennial coaster. Also, it was just retracked it is riding almost like new. Also, have you seen the new waterpark? It is probably one of the best waterpark around. Plus, with two of northeast ohios waterparks closing, this makes Wildwater Kingdom the major draw to people seeking wet fun(besides the beaches). The old Hurricane Harbour park was so cramped and the slides were old and out-of-date. We already have a Himilaya but it is in the boneyard and may return sometime in the future. They would not invest in a B&M Invert for the park anytime soon because it isn't feasible.

BTW, the general public can care less if a ride is rough, they will still ride it.

And Magnum isn't rough at all.

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Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:34 PM
Also last time I was at the Point, Magnum was sporting a healthy 45 min mid day wait and 15 min night wait times, not too bad for a coaster pushing 20 years old, mind you this was with three train operation. Also, now that Ive moved to the area, I have to tell you that Magnum has now joined Gemini as one of the most beloved "classic" coasters at CP. Just because it is one of the best capacity rides in the park, and is no longer new does not mean that the ride is no longer popular. Remember it is a parks goal to minimise waiting time without sacrficing full capacity rides, so the ideal being strived for is a ride that manages to leave the station everytime full of people who did not have to wait in a line to ride.

2020 Trips: Canceled by Corona

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Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:44 PM
There is only one Classic coaster at CP and it's currently not operating in classic mode. Blue Streak

Chuck

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Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:49 PM
^I didnt say what I think is classic, just what the GP I know who have lived here their whole life consider "classic."

Since Im young (24) my age set really reached coaster age as Magnum came on the scene so that was their first "scary" coaster and the Gemini thier first "big" coaster, hence the "classic" tags. Not that I would call Magnum a classic as I call Blue Streak but I think we are now at a point that certain steel coasters can be considered "classics" (Matterhorn, LNM, Magnum, etc) for what they have done to advance the design.


2020 Trips: Canceled by Corona

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Thursday, February 1, 2007 8:42 AM
Not sure I understand how Blue Streak is not operating in "classic mode". Yea it does not have single position lab bars, and it has seat dividers and seat belts, but just about every other wooden coaster at a major park chain has the same. There are no trim brakes to speak of, and the ride still performs well for its age.

The last time I was at Cedar Point, which was 2005, I thought Blue Streak was one of the better performing coasters there. Of course I would perfer Millenium Force and Raptor to it, but blue streak to me was riding much better than some other wooden coasters I have been on lately. It was riding better than pki's racer or other john allen out and backs I have been on lately.

I almost think enthusiasts need to stop complaining about ptc trains being modified and having seat belts, individual lap restraints, and seat dividers. It seems to be common practice, and from a safety outlook, is really needed. I like having the seatbelt since its an extra restraint if the lap restraint were to fail. Not that a lap restraint pops open all the time, but it has happened, although very rarely. Its sort of the same deal with the seat belt being attached to the shoulder restraint on inverted or other looping coasters. Seat dividers, although not the most comfortable for larger riders, do minimize the amount of movement from side to side of the passenger which is what the park would rather have.

Some hold the position that the single position lap restraint does a better job of restraining the passenger, however I have a hard time believing this. I also think having that type makes it easier for idiots to stand up if they want to. I remember when I first went to Cedar Point in 1994, and Blue Streak was still in "classic mode" with its single position lap bars, someone tried to stand up on the lift. Its just much easier with that restraint to try something stupid like that. I am sure that was a reason for getting rid of them.

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Thursday, February 1, 2007 8:52 AM
Pagoda Gift Shop's avatar Don't quote me on this, but I think the fact that Blue Streak is not considered a coaster classic has something to do with the ride besides the trains. I thought I remember reading they did something to the track...

Edit: Nope, looks like I'm wrong on this one. I didn't realize it was because of the train that it lost the coaster classic title.

The funny thing is, if you do a search on Blue Streak, almost every hit has the word "classic" in it. I guess people really don't care what ACE thinks.

*** Edited 2/1/2007 1:59:51 PM UTC by Pagoda Gift Shop***

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Thursday, February 1, 2007 9:09 AM
matt.'s avatar There's a difference between a coaster being a "classic" and ACE determining it is an "ACE Coaster Classic."

More info is here -

http://www.aceonline.org/classics/

It's not a matter of "what ACE thinks." We're talking about two different things here.

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Thursday, February 1, 2007 10:04 AM
rollergator's avatar ^ "ACE coaster classic" has become an asynchronous way of remembering the nostalgia of the older rides, but the definitions seem completely out-of-place in the real world context...the insurance industry has changed the way wooden coasters are built and operate...

How many wooden coasters get built these days without seat dividers, seatbelts, or individual lapbars...Coney's Cyclone may be in its final days as a coaster classic (I expect seatbelts and/or dividers once "Thor's Classique Coney" opens in a few years) - once that's gone, what's the point of that designation anyway?

I guess what I'm saying is that Pagoda is CLOSE....but it's not only "regaulr people" who don't care how ACE classifies *classics*...enthusiasts see the definitions as out-of-touch as well...

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Thursday, February 1, 2007 10:23 AM
Bingo. Nobody cares what ACE says or what ACE considers a "classic" except for other ACErs.

It's like trying to argue with McDonald's for calling their hamburger "classic" because the bun has changed since the 50's. Does anyone really care? No, people don't. No ACEr is going to pass up riding Blue Streak because it isn't a "coaster classic," just as no ACEr is going to pass up eating that hamburger.

-Nate
*** Edited 2/1/2007 3:25:46 PM UTC by coasterdude318***

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Thursday, February 1, 2007 10:33 AM
The odd thing about an ACE Coaster Classic is this...

A coaster that may have been built in the 1920's or 1930's and has remaind relatively unchanged EXCEPT seat dividers were added at some point in time would NOT be considered a classic.

HOWEVER, if a brand NEW wooden coaster, even if it is a very small JR coaster, would be built with bench seats, single positon lap bars and manual brakes would open, then THAT would be considered a "classic" by their deffinition... never mind that the previously mentioned coaster is 70 or 80 years old.

Personally, I always considered the term CLASSIC to rides that have stood the test of time... REGARDLESS of the way they operate. Then again, I'm not a card carrying Uber-Coaster-Geek either.


"Yes... well... VICTORY IS MINE!"
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Thursday, February 1, 2007 10:33 AM

kRaXLeRidAh said:

Jason Hammond said:
It's not like these maps are gospel anyway. There are always things wrong with them. The corkscrew layout has been wrong since Cedar Fair took over.

Uhhh. There's a difference between an inaccurate drawing of a ride's layout on a map and a ride completely missing from the map altogether.

And when I said Steel Venom was photoshopped out, I didn't mean the park map. It was photoshopped out from a still image (the one with the four teens crossing the pedestrian bridge). Go click on the link again, you obviously missed it.


Here's a thought:

Perhaps they were originally planning to remove both coasters, and so they told the company that does the maps to "take X-Flight and Steel Venom out". Then they changed their mind, but it was past whatever deadline to tell the map company to leave SV in?

As for the edited picture... same thing. Marketing materials have to be done crazy early to make all the deadlines for all the hands it has to pass through. I remember in 1997 Dorney Park's fun guide was supposed to have a picture of Steel Force on the front. Needless to say, it wasn't actually Steel Force (the steps on the lift are on the opposite side).

If it were really going bye-bye, I'd imagine that they would have removed it from the ride list on the site as well, but it's still there.


"Life's What You Make It, So Let's Make It Rock!"
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