CP - Force Seat Belts & T Bar Restraints

rdreaming, I don't think that they would close the whole ride down midseason to do mods to it. If they do any mods this year, I would bet that they would do one train at a time and keep it open.

You honestly think the share price rides on what rides are open and closed? Does that mean that I lose money on my stock when it's a rainy day? TTD can't run, so obviously, investors are closely watching the CP web cams on the floor of Wall Street and must be calling for a massive selloff of Cedar Fair stock. Get a clue dude, the stock price would not fall because MF closes for a few weeks. In case you didn't notice, there was a more "signature" attraction down in Sandusky for the better part of 3 months last year, and that entire time, guess what happened to the stock? It went up. That's gotta be one of the most ridiculous statements made in this thread.

Close the damn ride, and make some changes that make sense - when news stations in Cleveland and Cincy are running bad-PR stories about this, you know something's wrong. I sincerely hope that the board room at CP is running on all cylindars today ...

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Cameron said:
Look - quit blaming Intamin, Cedar Fair, Markie (who I agree is a complete idiot), or anyone else. The US is the fattist nation on earth, and it's getting fatter - this is not something to be proud of.

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...Says the insensitive kid who has never had to try to lose weight. Stupid.

ok coasterguy, for once i agree with you. they are doing what they needed to do after seeing the restrictions not enforced and someone died. the man that died at SFNE had ridden sros in the past. so that made it safe for him right? if CP wants to keep its riders alive and safe, the are enforcing restrictions that always existed, but were overlooked. closing MF to everyone would be absurd, working on a fix for later in the season or next year would make sense.

and Jeff, not to open up a can of worms, but who are you to call someone insensitive? calling someone stupid at the end of that sentence really enforces your concern for ohters feeling and your true sensitivity!

I agree with Jeff, it was a stupid and insensitive comment. People who can easily tell people to simply "lose weight because the country is too fat" are people that have never had to struggle through the painful task of weight loss.

Its time to face the facts- Americans are big people. On the average, Americans are larger than Asian people. They are larger than Europeans. You can b**ch, moan and complain about it all you want, and that is still going to be a fact. There is nothing you can do to get this country to shed about 20% of its total weight, so you have to accept the fact that people in this country are BIG.

I'm sorry, but there is some kind of flaw in the Intamin design. B&M speed coaster trains are more or less similar to Intamin mega coaster trains as far as restraints go (I'm talking basic theory here) and there has NEVER been an issue with them, so its obvious that there is a way to properly restrain riders without telling a large portion of the population that they can't ride. Its a design flaw that Intamin's customers should push the company to find a solution to. Not only are park PR departments going to suffer a tidal wave of nasty complaints for the forseeable future, but Intamin stands to lose business. I know that, if I were a park, I wouldn't want to add an Intamin mega coaster and have to deal with patrons that should be able to ride but cannot.

*** Edited 5/20/2004 1:09:58 PM UTC by Rob Ascough***

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COASTINGTHRU said:
and Jeff, not to open up a can of worms, but who are you to call someone insensitive? calling someone stupid at the end of that sentence really enforces your concern for ohters feeling and your true sensitivity!

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I am who I am, and I sure as hell don't need to justify that to you or anyone else. If it smells like crap, I call it crap. That's the way things go here in my little corner of the world.

I've watched a friend die of anorexia at one extreme and another with heart problems from being morbidly obese. You and Cameron can get back to me when you've spent time in my shoes. I'm fully qualified to dog big thinkers like him when it comes to weight and eating disorders, thanks.

Not only are people generally heavier. People are getting bigger genetically.

Take a trip to any old town, Old log cabins or houses over a hundred years old. Dude, Im 5'10 and not tall by todays standards but my head hit's the top of the doorways in those old houses.

hmmm, i don't remember saying what was said was not stupid, i just don't understand calling someone insensitive and following by calling them stupid. and being someone who was once anorexic myself, i guess i do understand that disorder a bit too. i'm not claiming to have been "in your shoes". maybe its just my own stupidity, or naivety, after all i'm pretty new here. but thanks for the warm welcome :) *** Edited 5/20/2004 2:07:34 PM UTC by COASTINGTHRU***

wow I just heard the news and read these posts.
first off Im a big man around 240 lbs 42 waist.
I've been a cp season pass holder for the last 5 yrs or so.
The new restrictions on MF stink..but I will just have to deal with it. I have rode MF many times in the past. If I want to ride it in the future I've got drop some weight.
but
a post says

Yes, it is for safety. When was it implemented? After someone flew out of Superman. That person had on his seatbelt. That person had down the harness, but it wasn't low enough because Intamin doesn't design that into their rides.

umm could it ALSO be that this man suffered from cerebral palsy and the ride ops didnt secure him in all the way ?

another post states..
there are 15 other coasters at CP(more than most other parks aside from a certain park in LA)for you all to enjoy so instead of complaining about the one coaster you may no longer be able to ride just enjoy the remaining ones that you can.
Please lets not include the kiddie
coasters.. Gemini jr and woodstock into this

I doubt I will get a pass this year becuase I'm afraid this new restriction maybe impilmented to other rides as the season goes on. I know im selfish for wanting to ride MF.
Its a great ride ! I kinda feel like CP is telling me..to stay away . The local news station is calling it " TOO WIDE TO RIDE ". Im sure some of the GP watchin this in cleveland are second guessing their trips to the point. I hope CP will consider in moding MF trains with a new seat design to accomidate us larger framed riders, and in their future ride designs. In the mean time I will be going to the gym and try to lose some of this weight.
From Bear to Cub.. oh my ! *** Edited 5/20/2004 2:20:30 PM UTC by Dennis***

The problem I have (and Im going to assume most other people argueing the same points) is that the seat belt rule does not make the ride safer. The restraints are designed to work when the bar rests safely on your thighs, for me it does but because of this new ruling I cant ride.

Also, coasterdude the height limit for MF right now is 42," or 3ft 6in if they had to raise the height limit to 48" very few people are going to complain because 99.9% of them are children who will just have to wait one more summer to ride the ride. It happened to me when I was young with the Yankee Cannonball, it was disapointing but I knew that the summer after I would be able to ride it. Having a car that is turning alot of grown adults is not good for park business (they are the ones who have the money).

The problem remains that Cedar Point is going to have a hard time on its hands justifying these procedural changes to the general public, specifically those who are no longer able to ride. Safety is important but by making these changes, they are implying that Millenium Force was previously run in an unsafe manner for these larger guests who are no longer able to ride but have ridden previously. If they counter by saying that it was safe to begin with but they are making it safer, then the argument becomes, why was it not safe enough before? What degree of safety needs to be imposed?

This reminds me a bit of the Texas Cyclone fiasco and the infamous coffin cars.

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Dennis said:

umm could it ALSO be that... the ride ops didnt secure him in all the way ?

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That is what seems to be missing here...

The former restraints, IF USED PROPERLY, were adequate and safe. The belt was secured... the T Bar was NOT in the correct position. With shorter belts, IF the T-Bar is still not in the correct position, is the ride any safer?

SLFAKE..
It was a combination of the ALL the elements that cuased this tragic death to happen.

Woah Jeff, get up on the wrong side of the modem this morning?! :)

Actually, your post gave me a really good laugh (thanks!) ... In one breath you made totally inaccurate assumptions about me, and then you called my comments stupid! You know absolutely nothing about me, nor have you even met me - if you had, you'd at least know that I'm not a kid.

Can you please show me where I said that losing wait wasn't difficult? Also show me where I said that I don't feel badly for over-weight people.

As far as casting the "you're stupid" stone, you didn't even read anything about the movie to which I linked. I know you'll claim you did, but it's painfully obvious that you didn't.

OK, I'll paraphrase:

The movie (documentary) is about a guy who eats nothing but McDonalds for a whole month. Three meals a day. He only eats stuff that's on the McDonalds menu, and will always super-size the meal if offered.

Now that's all just a bit of a gimmick, and is merely a catalyst for the real meat of the movie - which is the facts. Most of the facts are quite disturbing.

Did you know that the average American kid sees around 10,000 ads for fast/junk food every year? So even if that kid is lucky enough to have three home cooked, healthy meals every day; along with a bit of information on nutrition and healthy living - that the junk/fast food ads will still out-number the kids parents *10 times*.

Food services that cater for schools are nearly always selected purely by cost, and not by the nutritional value of the food they provide. (In Illinois, the same company provides foods for schools AND for prisons!)

The McDonalds Yogurt (with nuts) contains more fat/calories than a Sundae. The McDonalds salad with ranch dressing contains as much fat/calories as a Big Mac.

I could write pages and pages (or, you can just click on the link I originally provided and read the reviews and comments). But the main point of the movie is that we live (in the US) in a society which promotes obesity. It's all around us, starting from when we're infants ("McDonalds" is one of the most common first words that babies utter - often even before "Mum" or "Dad").

Jeff, the very point of my post was to point this out. The documentary compared weight loss to giving up smoking or drinking (in many ways it is more difficult, since fast/junk food (and being over-weight) isn't as socially unacceptable as smoking). While I don't (for a second) think that personal responsibility should be discounted, I do believe that the entire culture in the US needs to change. There is no reason why Americans need to be any larger than any other western nation.

Cam.

In the short term, would CP be well-off to put more test seats at the entrance to the queue? It would cost them a few more employees but if people knew they couldn't ride before standing in line I would think it would take some of the sting out of it. The problem is certainly compounded when the person who can't ride has stood in line, built their hopes up, and has them dashed at the last second, especially if they're with a group.

The ops on MF were really going out of their way yesterday to try and get people to fit, and appeared to be handling those who couldn't ride in a manner as unobtrusively as possible.

Not to get off subject, but since Supersize Me was brought up, we should look at the whole picture:

http://www.dailyherald.com/suburbanliving/mcdiet

http://www.techcentralstation.com/supersizecon.html

The guy ate 5,000 calories a day and didn't exercise. You can eat 5,000 calories of vegetables, stop exercising, and you'll gain weight. Granted, 5,000 calories of vegetables would be a lot of food, but going into how many calories are in a gram of fat, carb, protien, etc, is beyond the scope of this site. The point is, at the end of the day it's how much you eat versus how much you burn.

McDonalds isn't the problem. The problem is how much we eat and how little we exercise. IMO, that's largely an emotional issue.

*** Edited 5/20/2004 5:46:24 PM UTC by Gemini***

Just in case anyone is interested---I wrote a letter to Cedar Point and this is the reply that I got:

"Thank you for your interest in Cedar Point and for checking in advance of seat accommodations.

You have heard correctly that all seatbelts must be tighten an inch prior to being cleared for dispatch at Millennium Force and Top Thrill Dragster. This season, all seatbelts at these rides are consistently the same length as well, per manufacturers requirements.

Safety of each of our guests is first priority at Cedar Point. All passenger restraint systems, including lap bars, shoulder harnesses and seatbelts, must be positioned and fastened properly to allow guests to ride.

Due to rider restraint system requirements, guests of exceptional size may not be accommodated on some of our rides. This may apply, but not be limited to, males who exceed 6’2", and those who exceed 225 pounds, have a 40" waistline or 52" chest or females who exceed 200 pounds or wear size 18 or larger. Each person has different body proportions, so it is impossible to determine exact size and weight.

For safety reasons and per manufacturer’s instructions, we do not have seat belt extensions. The lap bar must lock and the seat belt must fasten. The seatbelts are an additional safety precaution to ensure that the harnesses or lapbars are lowered to the proper position to safely restrain each guest during the dynamics of the ride.

Our larger guests may experience difficulty on Millennium Force, Raptor, Mantis, Mine Ride, Blue Streak, Power Tower, Monster, Wave Swinger, Disaster Transport, Chaos, Corkscrew, Monster, Wicked Twister, Wildcat, Mean Streak, Top Thrill Dragster, RipCord and most Soak City attractions. These rides are designed by several different manufacturers who each have strict but different safety standards that may not be altered.

You may ask to enter the ride via the exit to ensure the restraints function properly prior to waiting in line. We have test seats at entrances of Millennium Force, Wicked Twister, Top Thrill Dragster and Raptor.

We hope you enjoy your visit.

Peggy Bertsch "

With this new policy I highly doubt I will be going to C.P. anytime soon.

My lovely wife and I were planning on attending Coastermania with the family. However, being that I'm over 225 pounds and have a 48" waist I guess I won't be able to ride MF or TTD. So, C.P. has now lost a family of 6 coming there in Sept. In fact, there's a good possibilty I won't ever go until this policy is changed.

MF and Raptor are the main reasons we go to CP and we had hoped to add TTD to that list. We've never ridded TTD as it was down every time we were there. I guess now I never will ride it.

With all that said, I'm sure C.P. doesn't give a crap about a few less attendees. :(

*** Edited 5/20/2004 6:15:32 PM UTC by DEK*** *** Edited 5/20/2004 6:16:00 PM UTC by DEK***

"Our larger guests may experience difficulty on Millennium Force, Raptor, Mantis, Mine Ride, Blue Streak, Power Tower, Monster, Wave Swinger, Disaster Transport, Chaos, Corkscrew, Monster, Wicked Twister, Wildcat, Mean Streak, Top Thrill Dragster, RipCord and most Soak City attractions. These rides are designed by several different manufacturers who each have strict but different safety standards that may not be altered."

Why not just simply say "Our larger guests are just S.O.L., unless they are content to simply sit back and watch everyone else enjoying the rides."

Because Magnum, Gemini, Iron Dragon, and Demon Drop didn't make that list? I took a friend who was pushing 365 and we hit all those rides and had a great time. Of course, he came back this year at 260 and did all the rides- even Millenium Force.