CP - Force Seat Belts & T Bar Restraints

The mention of the test seat at the entrance of MF and TTD is quite interesting. I just got back from CP yesterday and was able to ride TTD. I actually was told I could not ride MF and was asked to leave (sorry everyone to hold up your lines). I fit into the MF test chair fine, and can get 3 to 4 inches of extra belt slack without being uncomfortable in the least. And the gate attendant also said I was fine to ride.

Here's the problem... I am short with short arms, and have a problem getting the seatbelt locked (the lower side position of it kills me). It kills my fingers even more getting it unlocked (that's another complaint for another posting though). So when I needed help locking my belt, the ride op just said "I don't think so. You have to get off". This was not the case on TTD though for me at all, or for some of my larger friends who rode MF. I can say though that CP makes it a point at MF letting you know that you need to be able secure your own sealtbelt, so you could say that I was at fault. It's just funny though that I can ride every ride at CP without any problems, but it's a no go for me and MF. Or maybe it was just my op that day.

The last thing I need to say about the test chairs though is that they also need to be moved. They are actually holding up the lines at the entrances of the rides, specifically MF. If it not humiliating enough to be asked to leave the ride, I think it's worse holding up the lines for those who don't need to try the test chair.

What irks me the most is the fact that they have the nerve to use the term guests of exceptional size when the numbers they give are hardly what I would refer to as indicators of such. A 40" waist on a guy is considered exceptional size? Since when?

Not that it matters, though. I'm once again in agreement with Dave Althoff (Rideman) when he says that waist size has nothing to do with it, and that the problem exists with the size of rider's thighs. If you sit down and your thighs are wider than the 19" seat, I think you are pretty much S.O.L.

I don't understand why CP doesn't admit that this is a problem related to the design of the seat and the restraint system and at least offer some kind of indication that they are going to look into a permanent fix that addresses the problem. That is the ONLY way that people who have ridden the ride in the past but cannot ride now (such as myself) are going to be satisfied. No amount of explanation is going to do it. Telling people that they can pay to enter your park but not ride the two feature attractions is like letting people dine in a steak house but telling them that they can't order the most popular items on the menu.

...At the very least, why can't we get a straight answer out of them as to what the extra inch of dead strap is supposed to accomplish. If the lap bar is properly positioned across the thighs, what more could they possibly want? If they are employing a measuring device, why not use a measurement device that actually indicates a useful measurement?

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

My guess on the slack is they want to have some "give" if there is a hard force applied. They probably figure it would be less likely to pop loose. I think that is dumb, but that is my guess.

Isn't there something to prevent the belt from getting pulled through the strap? If so, what is that extra slack supposed to accomplish? If a hard force is applied (as RavenTTD said), doesn't the belt tighten and lock immediately?

Sorry... I think Intamin has no idea what to do and is merely talking out of their *sses in regard to this one.

Just a note...my coasterbuddy could ride MF last year, but until she lost some weight, could NOT ride TTD.

This year, she is down quite a bit, fits easily into TTD but had a tight fit on MF on opening day.

Obviously, we are both concerned. Did the new restrictions begin on opening day? Or did the restrictions get put into place afterwards? The death occured on S:ROS the week before opening day, but were Intamin's restrictions updated by then?

It's one of those cases where she has been working to lose weight for a year, lost enough to fit into TTD and Wicked Twister by the end of the season last year, and is now facing the possibility after losing more weight during the off season, she may not be able to ride MF.

Yeah...that sucks.

I'm all for safety, but when someone works so hard to lose weight to fit, and then comes back to find she can fit on rides she couldn't before, but one she DID fit on she can no longer ride, it's a bit frustrating.

Actually Rob, its like a fine dining restaurant telling you that you cannot order a steak because you are oversized to begin with and it unsafe for you to be eating so much food. Those people across the room can order the steak because they aren't larger than our recommended nutritional standards.

That canned response letter still skirts around the issue of why certain sized people were allowed to ride before and now are unable to. That seems to be the most contentious point with a lot of folks.

I wonder if anybody knows how many complaints GR has received since this policy was instituted. Unless it can be proven without a reasonable doubt (and Dave seems to do a good job of refuting it) that this new measure enhances guest safety for all riders, it seems more to be a solution of sweeping potential problems under the rug.

Look at the launguage of that letter and that should tell you - I can smell the legaleese and form letter from here ...

Of course its a form letter. If GR is fielding half as many letters as I expect, then there is no way that they'll be sending personalized responses. The thing is, the letter doesn't dictate why the manufacturer (Intamin) established that rule and when (or if) the park is going to do something to change things in the future so that many riders aren't prohibited from riding.

That's what I mean - the fact that it's a form letter should tell you the sheer volume of those responses they're sending out ...

All right...lets put an end to much of this. I called Cedar Point this afternoon (5/20/04) and inquired about the new restrictions....here is what was said.

"MF does not have any new restraints. The ride ops are simply paying more attention to the size of the rider. They are enforcing the saftey rules much closer. If there is any doubt about the rider's saftey, the rider will be asked to leave the train. There must be at least one inch of slack in the belt for the rider. If you were able to ride MF earlier in the year it should not be an issue"

Now...me...I am 6'2..240 (and still slimming down)..waist 40 - 42. I was able to fit nice and snug into MF w/o any concerns. However!!! I did notice that it seemed that MF had a much more snug fit in the front row.

I will agree that the "restrictions" listed are broad.

Use your best judgement, check the ride seat at the entrance of the ride. And to ensure a ride on MF. Sit straight up and all back in the seat to be secured. If you slouch at all in the seat you will not ride.

Think about it...if you rode MF recentely and have not packed on any weight you should still be able to ride. Hell, I was riding it at 250 pounds last summer.

But don't let this discourage you from visiting a nice thrill park. There are 14 other coasters that you can ride. Yes...adults can ride Woodstock Express. I did it a few weeks ago.

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Rob Ascough said:

I don't understand why CP doesn't admit that this is a problem related to the design of the seat and the restraint system and at least offer some kind of indication that they are going to look into a permanent fix that addresses the problem. That is the ONLY way that people who have ridden the ride in the past but cannot ride now (such as myself) are going to be satisfied. No amount of explanation is going to do it. Telling people that they can pay to enter your park but not ride the two feature attractions is like letting people dine in a steak house but telling them that they can't order the most popular items on the menu.

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THANK YOU!!

i too feel that if CP would just tell us they are working on a PERMANENT, EFFECTIVE solution that doesnt remove so many from the riding pool, it would help things immensely.

it would certainly restore my faith in the park and make me want to go back...

What do you expect them to do? What the manufacturer says goes. If the park doesn't obey the manufacturer's guidelines, they are at fault for any incident that may occur. I don't blame Cedar Point one bit for not wanting to be responsible for accidents.

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but if you want a permanent solution, you're going to have to lose some weight. The solution is there, it just means you're going to have to work for it.

-Nate

Losing weight isn't a permanent solution. Because when another Intamin ride somewhere tosses another rider because they didn't fix their seats the first five times, they'll make the belt an inch shorter again. And then maybe YOU won't fit.

I think I know what my next technical article is going to have to be about.........

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I may sound like a little bit of a fan boy here but I honestly dont think CP is to blame for the changes, Intamin is. If CP was truely worried about their MF then they would have closed it like SF did to theirs, this comes directly from Intamin as some one (Im too lazy and its too late to check) pointed out earlier in this tread. Ohio law dictates all manufactuers suggestions (which go above and beyond requirements) have to be followed at Ohio parks.

Unfortunatly, in order to motivate CP/Intamin into buying/designing a newer seat the park must be hit financially. Writing a letter to Intamin is not going to do anything' we are not their direct source of money the parks are. Hence another reason for me not to go to CP this summer.

Be assured that the park will do something to correct the problem, but it won't be until the off-season. Like I pointed out even though everyone thinks it is laughable:

Cedar Fair as a chain have two really high profile rides -- TTD and Millenium Force. If the park suddenly comes out and closes MF for an extended period of time to get the necessary fix "now" (which, incidentally won't happen until the trains can be redesigned, manufactured, delivered, tested and any further modifications that need to be made are made -- which will take _months_) the entire chain will take a stock hit.

If you were a regular person and you heard that MF was closed for the season, you would be a lot less likely to visit the park. And if you go and are too big, but the problem is being addressed and is fixed, you probably will return.

The last thing that Cedar Fair is going to do right now is come out and say that they are working on a solution. Working on a solution means that there is a problem with the current set of trains, and if there is a problem with the current set of trains, they should not be run.

There is not a problem with the current trains beyond the fact that they do not fit some body types.

Let them leave the ride open to satisfy the large percentage of the population that can fit with the current configuration. I don't understand why people who claim to be "enthusiasts" want to shut down one of the marquee rides for the entire world just because they can't get on it any more.

For those people, you have some options -- If you are overweight, try losing some weight. Heck, I'm trying to, and it isn't even to ride MF. If you don't want to do that, or are too tall, wait until the off-season to see what Cedar Fair does with it. If they do nothing, complain all you can because there si a problem. Until then though, whining about it on a message board really isn't going to get anyone anywhere. Intamin made a decision, Cedar Point has to enforce the decision. Case closed.

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thecoasterguy said:

Cedar Fair as a chain have two really high profile rides -- TTD and Millenium Force. If the park suddenly comes out and closes MF for an extended period of time to get the necessary fix "now"...the entire chain will take a stock hit.

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I DISAGREE with this coaster guy. I feel people would see that the company Intamin could be at fault here for a defective product, and it is now just being caught. People would also see that Cedar Point would be taking simple precaustions to ensure the safety of all guests and riders. Seeing that a company really does care about their guests, will probably even INCREASE their stocks, as investors will know that Cedar Fair's number one priority is safety.

Having stated that...i think we should get a petition going to get Millennium Force SHUT DOWN so it can properly be fixed and not just a make-shift adjustment in the seat belt. And if the shut down will not happen, then I feel a boycott the park should be implemented!

Please go to this link to sign the petition we need tons of people's voices to be heard!

http://www.petitiononline.com/1CedarPt/petition.html

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CP Boy said:

Having stated that...i think we should get a petition going to get Millennium Force SHUT DOWN so it can properly be fixed and not just a make-shift adjustment in the seat belt. And if the shut down will not happen, then I feel a boycott the park should be implemented!

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Not meaning to question your beliefs, but do you want to see the ride shut down from a personal standpoint or wanting it fixed for everyone? I think this whole situation seems a little forced, but coasters and their trains have to be designed to certain safe standards and sometimes that means placing a safe limit on guest sizes.

-Brian, who's girlfriend wears size 16 pants and hopefully can fit in under this new policy during our July trip..

I want it fixed for everyone. It was stated earlier that the coaster companies should get together to make one unique seat that will fit all people and i think that that is a great idea. And if that wont happen, I think Intamin should realize that the people of the US aren't all 32" and weight 150, and something should be done to ensure that many people can ride their products, or they may end up shutting down when amusement parks start realizing their competition is producing products that fit the heavier crowd.