CP - Force Seat Belts & T Bar Restraints

I almost wish I lived in Cleveland just so I can see this Scott Taylor guy live in ACTION! Probably just as bad as PXI in Pittsburgh - although they have an entire TEAM of annoying twits making life miserable for everyone.

And I'm glad someone else seems to be annoyed by the insinuation that only bratty, whiny people who need to get a reality check should even care that Millennium Force is not available to them. I mean, why can't they just go ride Iron Dragon and be just as happy, it's still a roller coaster, right? *** Edited 5/21/2004 4:06:40 PM UTC by Impulse-ive***

---

Gemini said:
There's a reason Millennium Force is one of the highest rated coasters in the world.

---

They bribe the voters???? (j/k)

I'll throw out a famous quote from Animal Farm to kind of describe the feelings some have towards MF and why they would not visit CP if they could not ride it.

"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others"

No one knows more than I do how much there is to Cedar Point outside of the big coasters.

Thats the reason why I have gone back to Cedar Point so many time. Because there is so much to do at that park. I love their shows! I love Millennium Force though and now that I don't think I will be able to ride, since I'm a big women, I really don't believe I will be there this season.

---

Jeff said:
Right... because the customer that buys $25 million rides couldn't possibly have any influence on the manufacturer...

---

I never said Cedar Point could have no influence on Intamin. However, if Intamin says "no", then "no" is the answer. After reading some of the comments Intamin (and, more specifically, Sandor Kernacs) has said about the issue it would not surprise me at all if Intamin refused to work out a new restraint system. If you're a park, you have the option to not buy anything else from that company, but you just have to deal with what the manufacturer says.

I'm not convinced this is a permanent thing either, but for right now, enthusiasts are just going to have to deal with it. Obviously Cedar Point is aware of the problem, and I think obviously they're going to want a different solution. For right now, though, it seems nobody really has an option.

Ridiculous petitions certainly aren't going to help.

-Nate

Agreed. That petition is about as useful as the one to take down ARN&R.

I've seen so much ridiculous stuff coming from enthusiasts lately that it's, well...ridiculous.

---

Rob Ascough said:
See, I interpreted it as her sympathizing with the enthusiasts that can't ride. Like you said, when words are put on paper, they are often hard to interpret.

---

Unfortunately, the article uses the term, she has little sympathy (which is words from the paper). She also chose to use the term billions instead of the number of the other rides. Exaggeration when it is not needed usually comes off bad.

Yogi Berra once said, "If people don't want to come out to the ballpark, how are you going to stop them?" If people are suddenly feeling motivated to not want to visit Cedar Point because of these issues with MF, how are you going to stop them? A just and reasonable solution needs to be reached in as minimal amount of time as possible. If Intamin is sitting on their hands hoping that this new policy is going to be the proper and permanent solution to the problem, then I have some issues with them and their policy making.

I think it's always been a question of what's an acceptable number of riders who are turned away. Plenty of people couldn't ride Millennium Force and Dragster last year. Cedar Point could change the policy and there will still be people who "just miss." What's the cutoff? Perhaps the park/manufacturer has gone too far this year with the new policy. However, some would argue that they had already gone too far, it's just more noticeable now.

I think another question is, why does Intamin seem to have this issue and other manufacturers don't? Wicked Twister has a restraint similar to Raptor, yet it is much more restrictive. From what I've heard, B&M Flyers are accommodating to larger riders (I don't know, I've never been on one or seen one in person - someone correct me if that's not correct). Obviously someone has found a way to protect larger riders on the most modern thrill rides.

*** Edited 5/21/2004 6:26:33 PM UTC by Gemini***

That's what I've been saying all along, and why I think that something could be done to make Intamin rides "safer" for larger riders. How many accidents have there been on B&M speed coasters? Inverteds? Floorless loopers? Those rides accomodate some very huge riders, and I can't recall a single incident where a rider got injured on any one of their dozens of rides in operation around the world.

Again, I point the finger at Intamin because they design their rides to accomodate a group of riders that is unrealistic in this day and age. I've said it before and I'll say it again- if you're going to sell coasters in the U.S., sell coasters that accomodate those riders. Or at least most of them.

If Intamin were to decide they would not modify anything, I don't think there's any reason why the the Point couldn't see if that other Swiss outfit could provide modified seats/restraints/maybe whole trains. If they could limit themselves to two seats across.

Didn't PKD bypass S&S on their last go-round on Hypersonic trains?

It's extreme, but who knows how much effect the current situation will have on attendence over the season.

---

coasterdude318 said:
.

I on't mean to sound insensitive, but if you want a permanent solution, you're going to have to lose some weight. The solution is there, it just means you're going to have to work for it.

-Nate

---

you insensitive JERK!! why are you assuming that everyone who is complaining is OVERWEIGHT?? i weigh 135 pounds at 5 foot 7 inches...

i am NOT overweight...but my BF is 6 foot 2 and 220 pounds. a nice, average sized male. but according to CP and Intamin, he is borderline at best. if HE CANT ride, i DONT RIDE. period.

please stop assuming that A) everyone who is complaining is overweight and B) that weight loss is a permanent, easy solution. try it sometime and see!!

LLG--who recently lost 30 pounds on her own and it WASNT EASY and had NOTHING to do with coasters.

When did I assume everyone complaining is overweight? What I said was that if you can't fit, your permanent solution is to lose weight.

You want insensitive? Try demanding that Cedar Point spend the cash to change restraints to accomodate you, your boyfriend, your mother, your children, etc, etc, etc while refusing to do anything about it yourself. Oh wait...

Honestly, chill out.

-Nate *** Edited 5/21/2004 8:20:49 PM UTC by coasterdude318***

and what do you think i should do about it myself??

all i want to know is why do you assume that weight loss is permanent? its NOT permanent. ask anyone who's been there. its NOT easy!

i struggle to stay at the healthy 135 my doctor wants me at. i cant eat what i want, i cant drink regular beer..hell, i havent had ice cream in SIX MONTHS.

like i said, try losing some weight yourself and try keeping it off longer than a month and then get back to me.

then maybe you'll see how insensitive your "permanent solution" remarks truly are.

LLG---wondering how many people here struggling to lose weight are offended by your offhand comments.

Perhaps you yourself shouldn't assume the people on here suggesting weight loss haven't struggled with losing weight. You practically scream at me for making assumptions, yet it seems you're making a pretty big one yourself.

I've lost weight myself, and I've kept it off. I've never been at a level where anyone would call me "obese" or perhaps even "overweight," but I know it's not easy to lose weight. I do realize, however, that it's the solution in this matter.

I think you're overreacting to the whole thing. From what I've read, unless your boyfriend has a large waistline, he does not exceed the weight limit (225lbs). He also meets (but does not exceed) the 6'2" height limit. So, I wouldn't be so worried if I were you.

-Nate (who does exceed the height limit but isn't worried and/or complaining one bit)

dont worry...you'll be complaining when youre turned away because you exceed the height limit...

---

Rob Ascough said:
That's what I've been saying all along, and why I think that something could be done to make Intamin rides "safer" for larger riders. How many accidents have there been on B&M speed coasters? Inverteds? Floorless loopers? Those rides accomodate some very huge riders, and I can't recall a single incident where a rider got injured on any one of their dozens of rides in operation around the world.

Again, I point the finger at Intamin because they design their rides to accomodate a group of riders that is unrealistic in this day and age. I've said it before and I'll say it again- if you're going to sell coasters in the U.S., sell coasters that accomodate those riders. Or at least most of them.

---

How many seat belts are there on Raging Bull, Nitro, or Apollo's Chariot?

None. Are you trying to imply something Eric? If you are, please excuse my ignorance as it's not getting through to me.

Just trying to point out that B and M feels confident enough in their coaster car design that the traytable type restraint is sufficient enough and that no secondary restraint in the form of a seatbelt is necessary.

Perhaps Intamin needs to look into ways to make the secondary restraint system, the seat belt, be independant of rider size. Not saying this is a correct solution but one I would throw out there.

My question is what is the number of enthusiast who would be *****ing up a storm, and petitioning CP currently if Millenium was closed opening day and for the rest of the year just because Intamin had a knee jerk reaction to what was basically operartor error.

I understand weight is a touchy subject, but in most cases and thier are exceptions, its due to your OWN habits

http://www.halls.md/chart/men-weight-w.htm

http://www.halls.md/chart/women-weight-w.htm

Intamin is a company that has to make a profit to stay in business, I am still pretty sure about half there rides are sold in Europe each year. Spending millions of dollars to completly beef up thier rides just to please a minority or Americans, is nonsense. I am sure thier of plenty of large Europeans who feel the same way, its quite narrowminded to say thier all skinny.

Its late, and may not have made sense, and I do not intend to insult anyone. But lets pause and think about what we are doing.

If you select few petitioners somehow get Millenium closed, the wrath from enthusiast not to mention the general public will be fierce.

Intamin may think that they could survive on only building European coasters but like it or not the United States is the biggest market for roller coasters and it would be stupid to take itself out of it.