CP - Force Seat Belts & T Bar Restraints

I just watched the Local News Channel 5 News in Cleveland and they just did a story on this controversy. And i was curious...so i went to CP's site and they changed the guests of exceptional size. it now states "Due to rider restraint system requirements, guests of exceptional size may not be accommodated on some of our rides. This may apply, but not be limited to, males who exceed 6'2", and those who exceed 225 pounds, have a 40" waistline or 52" chest or females who exceed 200 pounds or wear size 18 or larger. Each person has different body proportions, so it is impossible to determine exact size and weight."

All I can say is that all hell will break loose this summer if this crap keeps up at this park and other parks around the world.

The park should have known this when the bought the ride!?!?!?! Coasterdude what are you smoking because it must be some good stuff.

Hello this is a new safety procedure that just went into place this week by Intamin, up to this point their seat belts (variable with MF being the shortest of the lot) were much longer and they were the test of weither or not a rider could ride or not. Intamin just changed their specs this week there is no way the park could have known that before this.

Cincinnati Just ran a story on wcpo TV about disgruntled guest at CP and it's policy.

IMHO and not telling anyone what to do, Why not shut it down and fix it right instead of pissing half the visitors off?

Chuck, taking his money elsewhere

Does anyone have a link to the news stories?????

People cannot sit there and say that this is a cut and dry situation about people not wanting to go to CP if they cannot ride MF. This is not a situation where the ride is not open to everyone. This is a situation where people who have been previously able to ride are no longer being able to ride due to a policy change. I think a guest has ever reason to be upset if they are now excluded from riding because if Intamin says this is for safety purposes, then they are willingly admitting that the ride was unsafe for these guests previously and they were allowed to ride. If modifications are done that reduce the amount of people who are able to ride, then Intamin also has on its hand a situation where they are creating a reduced customer base, also a bad situation.

Safety should be of the utmost concern but they are creating a bad scenario where the park is risking alienating a significant portion of its guests. Cedar Point and Intamin need to be working on a solution that returns the number of eligible guests to the level that it was at the time the ride was opened or the bad PR is going to snowball.

Has anyone thought that this may just be a temporary thing while Intamin reviews everything that has happened and does some research and testing. Someone lost their life. Maybe after a few weeks of R & D, things will go back to normal.

It may be just a temporary thing but that will not make it up to the people who were excluded from riding for that short period of time.

As has been mentioned numerous times, there are times where it is better that nobody gets to ride as opposed to an exclusionary policy.

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Touchdown said:
The park should have known this when the bought the ride!?!?!?! Coasterdude what are you smoking because it must be some good stuff. Hello this is a new safety procedure that just went into place this week by Intamin

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Those who have worked Intamin rides have said there has always been a restriction on weight. So hello, no it's not a "new thing" if that's true. Those Unfortunately, because you can't expect people to be weighed before boarding, parks have been relying on seatbelts to do the trick. Now the seatbelts have been reduced in order to more accurately reflect the manufacturer's guidelines.

My point is that just because the rule/guideline is now being enforced doesn't mean it hasn't always been there. So yes, the park should have known about any restrictions (including restrictions regarding weight, as they have always been in place) before the ride was purchased.

-Nate

Maybe it is time for all of the major parks and all of the major ride manufacturers to get together, sit down and come up with a standardized seating plan. I mean most everything else in life has some type of standard. Why can't there be a standard for ride seating. The seat would fit say a 44" waist size, be able to accommodate a 6' 4" tall person, say a chest size of 58". It would not be hard to do and would make life easier for everyone. You would know right a way if you could fit the seat or not.

As for closing the ride because a few of us larger folk can't fit does seem awful selfish, don’t you think? Close the ride because "I" can't ride. If the next time I go to The Point I find out that I do not fit the new standard, I will be a little upset, but I won't expect them to close the ride and deny everyone a ride. Come on people. I do expect them to do a better job of having people try the test seat before waiting in line though. *** Edited 5/20/2004 1:01:38 AM UTC by CP ismyhome***

CPismyhome, look at it this way...why for SOME and not for ALL??

especially if MOST of those SOME are now excluded??

i, and a few others, i think feel that closing it TEMPORARILY and coming up with a PERMANENT, EFFECTIVE fix is better than THIS fiasco.

maybe if you thought about it a little more, you would see the logic in that...

It's going to be on the Channel 8 news at 10pm also.

No news on Channel 8's official sight, but they ran it as their man story at 10pm tonight. It was about a 5+min story. They interviewed a few people who definetly weren't large and didn't fit. One guy said he rode it last year, lost weight, and still doesn't fit. He said it was his favorite ride there and is disapointed. Though he says he would be more disapointed if he dies. The story was layed out acting like if CP didn't do this the world would die (typical news build up). The news did say it was because of SFNE Superman, and showed a picture of it. They mentioned Intamin and CP both made the ruling. They mentioned websites were over loaded with upset people. The story mentioned that CP should offer a discount for those who can't ride...and Cedar Point said no way. They also interviewed Robbin at CP and he said CP can not "give" in any form to stretch the new ruling on MF.

There was NO mention of TTD.

Here's an OFFICIAL News Link I found from Channel 5 (if someone wants to submit it to the News section go ahead):

http://www.newsnet5.com/entertainment/3324814/detail.html

*** Edited 5/20/2004 2:20:28 AM UTC by RollerCoasterGod***

I'm sorry, but I can not see shutting down a flagship ride because a few of the larger guests (probably me) who used to be able to ride now can't. And what is "the fix?" Everyone wants it fixed. Just fix it! How do you fix it? It may take several months to come up with and test "the fix." This isn't some old clunker in your drive that you can slap a little Bondo on and call it a fix, millions of people ride it and need to be safe on it. Until Intamin comes up with a resolution, we will just have to live with it. I'm as sorry as the next guy, but we can't have any more accidents like the one at SFNE. Do you want to see more accidents, more accidents where the lawsuits may force them out of business? Or a park out of business? Or BOTH? Someone died. There will be lawsuits and someone will have to shell out millions of dollars. Intamin and CP are not going to put themselves in the line of fire again. A few heavy park guests compaining is not going to change that.

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ThePhantomLives said:
AS I SAID, Intamin's requirements are right there in thier SOP's, it's the parks choise whether or not to enforce them. PP was a great example of that, the lady was NOT SUPPOSED to ride if she weighed over 203 lbs, PERIOD. So yea, for all you overweight individuals, technically Intamin isn't at fault at all, they covered thier ass as someone said.

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And as Dave said, you're still wrong. That's not what the requirement is.

I hardly find anyone over 203 as "overweight" either. Don't be stupid.

This is affecting my financial decisions concerning CP but not in a way you'd expect.

I have a CP visit planned for the end of August. I was trying to nail all my reservations down now but I'm going to wait on CP. Obviously, I'm only interested in staying on site for the ERT, and I'm not sure if I'll get either MF OR Top Thrill Dragster ERT with this controversy going.

Yes, I can easily fit in the restraints with a 30" waist as can my wife. However, I'm worried all the complaining about this new procedure is going to cause a long ride closure as MF's trains go through some major overhauls. If CP is looking at on the one end legally following Intamin's orders and on the other hand a growing furor with angry and humiliated park guests what can CP do other then somehow change the ride?

I'm going to hold off on my reservations with my fingers crossed and watch as this develops. Sure, I'll absolutely still be going to CP, but if MF is down for the count I won't risk staying on site for finicky TTD ERT.

I hate this requirement stuff. I mean at a certain point it is necessary though. I am 6'2 and half inches, a whopping 170 pounds and according to the cp site, im past the height restrictions. I'm sure there be no problem, but it's all a joke.

In regards to the comment about people still going to the park before MF was built... this is true... there are other things to do and i used to agree with you as well, until this whole incident occured...

... i think a lot of us like to compare rides and like to go for certain rides, because they were in fact built, obviously. For example, SFDL used to have Viper and Predator... that's it. I remember going to the park as a kid and riding those all the time and had a great time. Coming up this monday is physics day at the park, and i know that i will be dissapointed. Sure i still have 4 other coasters (which i don't particularly like, in comparison, and riding them so many times), but everybody knows superman is the star attraction, in fact many people in my class were really looking forward to riding it and practially talk about going every day -- and after i mentioned the news it would be closed, they all kinda seemed pissed off [@ me of course ;P]...

At first I never really saw the view in the stance of the Geauga Lake case, but now that it happened to a ride that i really like (superman), i can see why people can be angry (when the animals were taken away)...

I hope this issue can be taken care of. things just seem to get worse every year.

-- alan j.
*** Edited 5/20/2004 3:06:56 AM UTC by SFDL_Dude***

I have one more comment and this is in reguards to Cedar Point's new slogan...ABSOLUTELY AMAZING...if they are so ABSOLUTELY AMAZING then i think they should so something to fit us guests of "larger size". The only thing they are amazing at is ripping the fun times of a good coster from people who can fit in the seats and ripping you off at the gate.

Look - quit blaming Intamin, Cedar Fair, Markie (who I agree is a complete idiot), or anyone else.

The US is the fattist nation on earth, and it's getting fatter - this is not something to be proud of.

Go see "Supersize Me":

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390521/

It's really frightning.

(Not affiliated with the movie in anyway, etc..)

Some more replies:

Touchdown said:

First of all coasters should not be for a "chosen few" of the pool of potential riders. Ideally all riders who want to ride should be able to. If the ideal is not possible the park needs to choose what is best for all of their guests.

Basically, the park needs to decide if they want to close MF for "mechanical reasons" and midly upset everyone or severly piss off part of the population. If the lines of people at Guest Relations get longer and longer and more people start vowing never to go to never return I bet the ride will eventually close.

My reply:

I don't agree with you. MF is one of the marquee attractions for Cedar Fair (yes, the entire chain). Closing it down would take away a marquee attraction for the entire year. The management at Cedar Fair decided to keep it open because it would be such a high profile ride to close, and would negatively affect attendance more this year. I think a lot of people here are drastically over-representing the amount of the general public that will vow to never come back due to one non-ride on Millenium Force. I have seen people not fit into all different types of rides that were very disappointed by it, but most of them understand that it was for safety reasons.

RavenTTD said:

Do you honestly think the people that were allowed on MF last year were in any danger, or are you just grandstanding for the park? Please give me a break. This has nothing to do with safety. If anything, it is BS regulations. More than likely it is

My reply:

Yes, it is for safety. When was it implemented? After someone flew out of Superman. That person had on his seatbelt. That person had down the harness, but it wasn't low enough because Intamin doesn't design that into their rides. Intamin decided that for safety, this new policy had to be implemented. Cedar Fair implemented it. This isn't a BS regulation.

Jeff said:

Wow... and people think I'm a fan boy...

My reply:

I actually do not like Cedar Point at all. I have been to the park about five times and honestly only enjoy a few rides. I am *not* a fanboy. I am looking at this from the same standpoint that the industry is. Those of us that can't cope with a park enforcing a strict safety rule after someone DIED in a similar situation aren't in touch with reality.

CP IsMyHome said:

As for closing the ride because a few of us larger folk can't fit does seem awful selfish, don’t you think? Close the ride because "I" can't ride. If the next time I go to The Point I find out that I do not fit the new standard, I will be a little upset, but I won't expect them to close the ride and deny everyone a ride. Come on people. I do expect them to do a better job of having people try the test seat before waiting in line though

My reply:

Oh good, another fanboy to join me. Thank gosh I can band together with someone!

LadyLegolasGreenleaf said:

CPismyhome, look at it this way...why for SOME and not for ALL??

especially if MOST of those SOME are now excluded??

i, and a few others, i think feel that closing it TEMPORARILY and coming up with a PERMANENT, EFFECTIVE fix is better than THIS fiasco.

maybe if you thought about it a little more, you would see the logic in that...

My reply:

Okay, first off all, most of those some are not excluded. That would be a ratio greater than one out of every two people couldn't ride the ride, and if that was the case, yes it would be shut down.

I am *positive* that they are working on a fix, but again -- the fix probably won't be ready to go for a year. Look at the posts about everyone complaining that S:ROS won't be open and see why CF decided to keep MF open. I'm sure that you'll see new trains on it next year.

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So what it really comes down to is this...

- I have people now calling me a fanboy because I think that a death on a ride means that the operating procedures for that type of ride should change.

- Everyone here seems to want "big boy" seats, although not one person has explained what you could tell small people that didn't fit into the ride that they couldn't ride, nor how you would make that determination.

- How telling someone that is the wrong proportion to ride in this case is any different than telling someone that is too short to ride that they can't. Lets start a new thread complaining about how we know people that are only 40" tall and they can't ride TTD, so they will never return to the park! The restraints should be made for those people 40" tall! That's a bit part of the population!

So, to sum up everyone's feelings, Cedar Point should keep MF open with no restrictions on weight because no one has fallen out yet. That's a really dumb way to look at it, and if I'm a fanboy for saying that, so be it. I would much rather the park be safe than sorry.

And you know who else would be? Someone a hell of a lot more powerful than anyone in this conversation, and the same group that will really make an impact with Cedar Fair if they close the ride down -- the shareholders. Anyone notice how far Six Flags dropped on the day of the Six Flags incident? Cedar Fair is a much smaller chain. Closing down a marquee attraction (the second biggest in the chain) for the rest of the year would have a HUGE impact on shareprice.