Cedar Point's Blog is teasing us!

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Neuski said:
Putting Magnum in the bottom four is in insult. I demand that you apologize to her.

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I agree - we had the highest ridership in the park last year - apologize now!

Keith2005, thats an interesting observation on the "BT" in the photo file names. "BT" doesn't match-up with WWL, CP&LE Railroad, the title of the blog, or anything else I could find on the site.

I guess time will only tell, but you may have picked up on a clue to the new ride/area name.

My point exactly!

I'm curious to know what BT is referring to, but I really doubt that T & T know too much about what is going on.

BT = Back There

As in "Go get some pictures back there"

;)

I hate to burst your bubble Mantis, but TTD had it's best yr in 2005...The only time it had trouble was at the end of the year, other than that it was mabye half an hour wait

Hell, 90% of the problems in all three years was due to the breaks sticking and causing TTD to rollback

The other 10% would be

Cable got super duper hot and that's why we see water rolling through to cool it off.

Cable actually broke and got some people hurt, and man what a sound that was.. Standing in line for Magnum and all you heard was a whip crackin and then metal banging up against the track.

And the big engine inside the building was overheating, so Air-Conditioning was put in..

2006 looks to be even better IMO for this Ride

Kevin beat me to it. Saying Magnum has low ridership couldn't be further from the truth. It's easy to get on because it has high capacity. Magnum and Raptor are always at the top of the list for rides given. It used to be Gemini until they cut its balls off. MF and Dragster are well down the list due to capacity and downtime issues.

Comparing Magnum to Mean Streak and Mine Ride because they are all easy to get on is just not being very observent. Magnum is easy to get on because the crew is always busting their butts running three trains, hitting interval, maybe even packing the trains and moving 1500-1700 riders per hour. Magnum gives ~2 million rides a season. Mean Streak and Mine Ride give probably just under or just over 1 million. Big difference.

And to the person who said MF was Kinzel's best business decision. He actually said Magnum was his best business decision. And the coaster installation he is most proud of. And he told the story about how as soon as the first train made it around, him and the other higher ups at the time jumped in (something that would never happen today) and they rode. Jack Falfas was in controls. (Coasterbuzz Podcast #7)

Whatever CP builds I hope it is a genuine crowd pleaser along the lines of a Magnum or a Raptor or even an MF (seatbelt issues aside). With the Dragster fiasco, they really need to deliever something that works this time around to restore their reputation.

I always respect reports from those in the knowhow. I was simply basing my understanding of the situation on my personal visits (of which on two separate nights the ride closed in the 4-5pm range for the remainder of the day) but mostly online trip reports. I realize TTD has gotten better but I was still under the impression that it was farther behind the reliability of the rest of the parks coasters than maybe it actually is. After all my rambling, probably my point was after taking truly everything into account, realistically, putting wishful thinking aside, I was just surprised to see so many people believe in the 500 footer for '07. I'm not surprised it's out there, I just generally have a very good pulse for what parks do, I'm not seeing this, I respect people's views, but I just was surprised at the large momentum being gained. The parent company knocked down Hercules at Dorney two offseasons ahead of time and left the site dormant too. It only makes sense to not tear a ride down during the season so the WWL demolition and site prep does not convince me of anything other than they're getting something for '07. I just think it's too soon for them to go into uncharted territory yet again UNLESS someone will tell me that at 500 feet, it will be more than just a "tower" coaster, it will work all day, every day. If someone can tell me that cost, $30, 35, $40 million is not an issue for a 500 foot coaster that would also include much more than just a tophat, than of course it could happen (and find a manufacturer who wants to do it at this time/thinks it's pheasible). I just don't think they'd choose to build a ride that's almost the same as TTD but a little taller. Records are generally only discussed by enthusiasts and the park gets some press initially. All GP people I've ever known want a fun coaster regardless of the billing. Also, Intamin had its time, SFGA people, isn't KK still up in the air operationally?

MDOmnis, you said what I've been trying to say there at the end about the next ride. Thank you. I'll save people my million words next time and come to you as my literary advisor. *** Edited 2/26/2006 5:02:40 PM UTC by Mantis2***

You are correct about Dragster. It is still lightyears behind other rides at CP in terms of reliability. I don't care what anyone says. Was 05 better than 03 or 04? Yes. But the ride still was not anywhere close to the 96% uptime of the rest of the park. I bet it wasn't even 80%.

Until that ride stops causing itself irreparable damage to the propulsion system, it will never be considered reliable.

Mantis2, a 500 footer with an actual layout is possible, you just need enough land to spread out the elements to keep the G's down.

As for the cost issue, think about this...

Back in the 1999-2000 season they invested $25 million to build MF, and apparently it repaid it's installation cost quite rapidly. Then just two years later they installed Wicked Twister, and at the same time they were pouring the tower footers for Dragster. Now I'm not sure how a coaster payment plan works, but this multiple coaster construction would lead me to believe that they were both being paid for at the same time. So if you lump both rides' construction cost together, you get a $34 million dollar investment. After installing a couple flats for a few million a piece, that brings us to present day.

This should give you a good idea of how much money they are willing to throw at a company to build them what they want.

If they invest the same amount of money as back in 2002-2003, they will have $34 million at their disposal. It's possible that they could invest even more into the ride if you factor in a similar jump of $9 million between the MF and WT/Dragster installation. It wouldn't surprise me if Cedar Point ends up investing $35-45 million on this project. Are my estimates a litte high? Maybe, but anyone who thinks that money is the deciding factor in "how big" they go with their coasters hasn't been paying enough attention.

Good points CPgenius. That's more of what I was looking for, if I'm out of line, I want to hear more than just talk of CP's greatness or people dreaming of bigger rides. Of course I think CP is great, it's my favorite park. Ok, so they're willing to deal with the cost, no one has to convince me that 500+ is able to be done, experts have said that safety-wise or G-force-wise, height is not an issue. I guess I am wondering when it will slow down for CP, that is just building taller rides to beat someone else. I was thinking that they would take a break from the arms race this time around and address some things. It could be building a new signature woodie, or another traditional coaster with a long layout, many elements and strong reliability. Yes, I believe that someday they will go nuts again and push the limits.

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PKevin2004 said:

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Neuski said:
Putting Magnum in the bottom four is in insult. I demand that you apologize to her.

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I agree - we had the highest ridership in the park last year - apologize now!

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I apologize! ;)

But fact is fact! Although I went in the very end of June, it still got an idea on what was popular & what wasn't... and Magnum was a walk-on almost every time with the lines virtually non-existant and these were hot sunny days (maybe too hot?). I missed the days when the lines stretched. It kind of defeated the fun & anticipation for the ride....
...but then the non-existant lines meant more rides foe me!

Obviously, if there's a constant 20 min wait for Wildcat or 30m wait for Disaster Transport doesn't mean they're more popular or have better ridership... that just throws other variables into the factor... it's more or less just an observation and less-so a mathematical conclusion that Magnum's not popular. 95% of Magnum's trains were full & always running 3 trains... it's just the popularity has dwindled down over time. *** Edited 2/26/2006 7:13:07 PM UTC by DawgByte II***

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MDOmnis said:
You are correct about Dragster. It is still lightyears behind other rides at CP in terms of reliability. I don't care what anyone says. Was 05 better than 03 or 04? Yes. But the ride still was not anywhere close to the 96% uptime of the rest of the park. I bet it wasn't even 80%.

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I'm glad that TTD crapped out for the end of last summer. The hydraulics were leaking oil into the lagoon through it's oil/water heat exchanger. I can only hope that they fixed that problem.

Maybe they are making a new type of roller coaster that we have not even heard of yet that will infuse a roller coaster and a log flume that is bigger and better than any water coaster we have ever seen.

I think that problem had happened towards the end of the summer and was not the *final* breakdown the ride had.

They had fixed that problem in about a week if I remember correctly.

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Mantis2 said:
The parent company knocked down Hercules at Dorney two offseasons ahead of time and left the site dormant too.

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Well, to get technical, the site was anything but dormant in the year and a half after Herc. closed. (Labor Day 2003 was the last day it was open.) There was quite a bit of de-construction work of Hercules as well as Construction work of Hydra (including footers, land formation, etc.) I liked going to the park every couple days and riding Steel Force a couple times to see the progression of the work, and was even fortunate enough to be in the park to witness the topping off of the lift hill. :)

(yeah, I'm such an emgee)

As for 500'? My vote goes with probably not. Not because of costs, or they-can't-do-it chants, but the company has publicly acknowledged that they need to look towards families more, and IIRC CF exec's were seen touring PKI last year - my guess would be to get an idea of family areas, attractions, etc.

So I'd say that Moosh's logic would be well placed in that it'll likely be a whole new section with more family-friendly attractions, including possibly a smaller flume (I'd love to see an indoor themed one similar to Knott's!) Even without a flume, a family-oriented section with more than just kiddie rides would definitely fill a big hole in their lineup.

And if I'm wrong, well, I'll still ride the coaster ;)

Let's get serious here. Why in the heck would CP build a 500? This is not going to happen at all. Not at CP at least. CP and SF have both hit over 400 and I think they won't go any further than that for some time.

I think the next to company to hit the record would prob. be Paramount or even Disney.

Now, Dannerman.. I do like your idea, but I think your gonna have to wait for 2008 for the family rides to come into that area.. 2007 is the year for the big coaster at CP. May not be a big as everyone seems to think it is, but it will be big... They've got 5 or 6 acres to work with here, mabye even more since there is still more to take out..

Coaster Predictions:

Dive Machine, Dueling Flyer, 4D, Floorless or, or, or they might do what I Want..lol...TTD/Millennium Force type of ride...Now that would Kick some Gludious Maximous

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Dragstermania said:

I think the next to company to hit the record would prob. be Paramount or even Disney.

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I'd just love to hear your reasoning for that. Especially the Disney bit.

^^ Especially since I don't think that any Paramount Park has a coaster over 200 feet tall except Son of Beast... and that was back in 2000 as no Paramount Park has come close yet. Paramount Parks don't look for record breaking coasters. They go for different, themed, or fun.

I would have to say the chance of CP building a 500 ft + tall coaster is about .0000001%. Its not even that they wont do it ever, but next season makes absolutely no business sense whatsoever.

Sure, they could advertise, and yeah, people would come. But if in the event they build a coaster next year, (Im skeptical myself), I think they would really make more money off of a smaller coaster with a kick your ass layout.

Intensity is the next big thing these days over height. Im hoping its the first wave of all quality designs for a few years.

Im joining the woody for [enter US park here] in 2007 campaign.