Cedar Point's Blog is teasing us!

Cheers!

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RavenTTD said:
The forces on Wildcat are actually greater than the forces on MF for TTD, but that seems like more of a piece of trivia than an indication as to which ride the public finds more thrilling. Even if you do experience the height a bit longer on a drop ride, the thrill of height is still there on monster coasters for the majority of CP's customers.

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Exactly the point I made previously. I'm not saying that coasters shouldnt be bigger than 100 feet tall becasue all of the forces are the same. I do however think that when it comes to providing a traditional rollercoaster experience, and pushing it to the limits, there is an optimal height/speed that you can push and still provide a decent layout, ride time, and overall experience within todays amusement parks.

At a certain point its just going to be less expensive to strap 20-30 open air seats to the back of a stunt plane.

Redman, thank you for talking me down, lol.

It was only because of the REST of my opener, which you didn't quote, that I was saying that. ;)

I'm only sick of posting it because people read it, acknowledge it, then after a week or two break down and just start discussing the same drivel. I really don't care what it is or if you want to have fun with whatever idea, that's great, but man, some people are preaching the same little lines over and over that just don't make sense. It's really something when some hype dies down, then someone "hears from a good source that" it'll be what was just, basically, tossed out.

There is absolutely no point in building a 500ft coaster. And you know what? In hindsight, there was no point in building a 400ft coaster either. They're just bad business decisions and operational nightmares.

You wouldn't be saying that if Dragster didn't have it's problems.

Actually, I wouldn't be saying that if Dragster, Kingda Ka or even Superman:The Escape hadn't had so many problems.

But the fact is, they did and they have. So now why in the heck would you go and build one 500ft?

Any *logical* explainations out there?

I couldn't explain TTD after the operational nightmare that was Xcelerator...so obviously I don't know what I'm talking about... :)

Oh, and CP's blog isn't doing ANYTHING to *or* for me...although I'm surprised to see that Tony and Tyler are indeed real people - I had come to believe they were fictional.

I don't think anyone is saying that we are getting a 500 footer for sure. The point is that a 500 footer is very possible, and I am not sure why so many are dismissing the chance so quickly. First, this could be the reason for the blog in the first place...to tease us about the big one. It seemed like overkill for Skyhawk. Second, we all know this is the last big thing for Kinzel...take that for what it is worth. Third, we all know that MF was a huge success...high cost projects do pay for themselves if done right. Fourth, this is CP...they do like to markets "...ests". Fifth they seem to be starting way early for a small project. Even if there is more than one attraction, if they are all regular size, this much time is not needed. HW started much later for their entire new area. Of course it is possible they just don't want to taer anything down or move the tracks during the season. But most importantly, EVERYONE was saying a height record was out of the question before TTD was built. Then EVERYONE was saying that record would stand for years. I am sure a lot of the members saying 500 is not practicle could be searched on this site to find similar quotes pre-TTD. Do I know for sure that it is a 500 footer? No. Do I think it is probably a 500 footer? No. But do I think a 500 footer is just as possible as a giant woodie at CP? Yes I do.

Well here's another problem with a 500-footer: it would have to be absolutely, completely different than anything else the park has. Of the 2 logical possibilities for a 500-footer, the first, a 500-foot rocket, would be a glorified Dragster as previously stated. Or let's say it's a cable-lift ride. Now you've got Millennium Force, made obsolete in only 6 years. Or perhaps it will be more similar to Magnum. Congrats, you've just made Magnum obsolete and now have a 500-foot version, still relatively similar to MF (assuming it's an Intamin), and odds are ridership would drop because those people who wouldn't ride anything much over 200 feet will be too scared of the 500-footer.

Of course, it could always be a B&M hyper. Now you're shelling out $50,000,000 for yet another hypercoaster. Why? Cedar Point has enough in the way of size. Would a 500-footer really be much more than yet another novelty oversized coaster? No! As I said, they have enough in the way of huge coasters, and even more so, what they have is good.

Heck, they're fine without another coaster. Though I'd love to see them with a 17th, 1) it's way too many and unecessary for now, 2) a new themed area would cater to a far larger group of people, and 3) unless there's new technology for a 500-foot coaster that is completely different from anything else in the megacoaster market, there's nothing that would be different enough to keep it from overshadowing another coaster in the park.

Sirloindude, who says a new themed area with a Gerstlauer or Mauhrer-Sohne spinner would be a tactful way to add a 17th.

I haven't read anywhere of someone believing a 500 footer is coming. So why are people still debating about it?

Everything I have noticed about CP over the last couple of seasons has proven to me that they are seriously considering a more familial atmosphere over their previous enthusiast atmosphere.

They have done more than enough to seriously please most enthusiasts, but it seems like that had been getting in the way of younger kids and entire families. The last 2 rides, shorter, flat rides, and the most recent, essentially a swing that is not supposed to be very intense, shows me they are making a huge push towards appealing to the entire family.

I would not be surprised if, whatever they do, has a little something for everyone. I am really noticing a shift in who they are aiming to pull in here and I think it's really working to their benefit. Best of luck to their abilities to appeal to the masses because they could really turn that area into a lovely area for everyone.

I could really see maybe a flyer, or floorless, or dive machine, or even a woodie coming, hosted near a new resteraunt and/or themed area for kids, too. I am really excited to see where they go with this, but I'm expecting it'll be relatively tame and intensely appealing to everyone. *** Edited 3/1/2006 12:21:11 AM UTC by MForce2k***

I was thinking today, would it be possible for Cedar Point to add 2 new coasters in 1 year. SFMM is leading with 17 when Tatsu opens, I could easily see a water coaster and an adult sized coaster going into a retro-fitted frontiertown. Possibly a whole new area, restaurants, shops, the whole 9 yards.

It would give them back the title of most coasters....but who knows really. Only speculation as of now. *** Edited 3/1/2006 6:32:11 AM UTC by Geewhzz***

Possible? Sure! Probable? I wouldn't hold my breath.

Generally speaking it's enthusiasts who care a lot more about the "who has the most coasters" race than the folks who run Cedar Point [and, well, SFMM as well now that Snyder & Shapiro are running things].

The coaster wars are over.

So Kinzel started them, and now they end while he wraps up his tenure? Poetic to say the least...

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RavenTTD said:
The forces on Wildcat are actually greater than the forces on MF for TTD.

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Wildcat's peak positive g force is higher than Millinnium Force. Top Thrill Dragster has a higher positive g force than both Wildcat and Millennium Force

I think Jeff announced in the podcast that our assumptions are incorrect. Thus, no 500' footer.

Ugh, and unfortunetly no revolving restaruant.

What about a HUGE woodie? Any denying that yet?

Keith, can you direct me or post Jeff's comments from the podcast? Not that I doubt your interpretation, but I'd like to form my own opinion after reading the "facts."

I've read the entire thread and the logic here is amazing. Why would a 500 or 600 footer make MF obsolete if it were a looper? How would it make TTD obsolete with proven technology like a cable lift? I do agree there isn't a chance in hell the next coaster is launched, and seriously doubt it's wood. I'm glad to hear Jeff thinks enthusiasts will be pleased.

With what I've seen and read so far, I continue to think the CP has their eyes set on the height record again. Maybe 3 will be their lucky number and CP can retain the title for more than a couple of years!

Popular opinion seems to focus on wood or a looper of some kind. If it's a looper, then OTSR will be employed, and if the ride is over 500 or 600 feet, OTSR would make sense given the height along with a cable lift or verticle lift.

I read somewhere this project will the second one of it's kind. Isn't there only one verticle lift currently operating or under construction?

If MF was the best decision Mr. Kinsel made, and this is his final coaster project - call me crazy - a huge looper like MF makes sense to me! CP was the first over 200, 300, and 400 feet! If CP wanted to continue the trend and be the first over 500 and/or 600 feet - wouldn't it take two (2) off seasons to build?

Is this the EARLIEST CP has started construction of any project?

Tom

This is just getting ridiculous. I'm all for a healthy debate, but talking about possibility of a 500' looper is beyond the common sense spectrum.

I suggest you listen to the podcast, Tom, because Jeff made a few good points like the reason that they have expanded this project over two seasons is because:

1. The season now runs all through October (shorter off season).

2. You would have the demolition of a ride plus the construction of a new ride plus what appears to be the movement of the RR and there are most likely other things as well. Doing all that in an off season, for even a small coaster, would be very daunting.

Listen to the show and we'll all forget about the 500' looper nonsense.

I agree that I don't think it will be a 500 footer. But I have to disagree with Neuski that they couldn't do all that for a small coaster or another large attraction... yes the off season is a month shorter, but look at all the work that went into producing Raptor. They moved several rides and demolished the mill race. And I wouldn't call a B&M Inverted a small undertaking. Yet I am sure that they need the time for whatever they are doing otherwise they wouldn't have done it this way. Personally I think we could expect something with a different rider aspect like Floorless, Flyer, 4-D, etc.. etc.. whatever it is I am hoping its not another Intamin.