Cedar Point's Blog is teasing us!

"...you have to be impressed by the diehard fan base. That's gotta be worth something."

Something "quantifiable"? In terms of mph, height, pph, or even dollars...? Certainly, those people are LOYAL customers, and every business can use more of that...

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PsychoMonkey61 said:

And where in my post did I say they should tear down Mantis and Raptor?

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Nowhere, I was being facetious. Apparently it went over your head.

This thread is exactly what happens when people get spoiled by the coaster building spree of the recent past. How did we ever survive the 60's, 70's and 80's?

Pki is also open longer (april and nov) than cp is. Plus I am sure that there attendance will really be up now that they have the christmas thingy.

I would like to see a large coaster at cp, but it dont have to be 500ft. I was thinking something like kumba or perhaps shiekra(sp), but have it duel. I would also like to see a log flume ride return to the park.

But if they did build a 500 footer, my butt would be in the park more often than last year.

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PsychoMonkey61 said:
Why is it that the 8 of the top ten rollercoasters on the Golden ticket awards are air machines?

Also, how does the fact that TDD has had some issue mechanically affect its ride experience?

Obviously MF2k you are wrong considering the fact the majority have voted TDD above Raptor. And don't say it is because Raptor is older, because MF is older than TDD and it was voted above it.

Take a look at hte point buzz surveys too. MF, TDD, and Maggie, and then Raptor.

And where in my post did I say they should tear down Mantis and Raptor?

Also I never said that they weren't popular when they were built. I am saying that a Huge coaster is a bigger draw and more recognition than another looping type coaster. (The key word is MORE)

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Wow, you sure are quick to try and hammer out answers before anyone asks any questions.

Without pointing fingers, I'm just going to say that it's amazing to me how many people post here STRICTLY with an enthusiast mindset. You just aren't happy unless [CP] is building something that completely blows everything else out of the water. If TTD wasn't 420 feet tall, I'm sure people would still be coming back with their arms raised because of the EXPERIENCE, the RUSH of that launch and the hill, not because they care how many feet it is.

Raptor has packed lines quite frequently, and as I talk with my friends about going to CP, who are NOT enthusiasts, it is probably the favorite ride of 3/4ths of them just because of the kick the ride has all the way through, not because it's the fastest or the tallest there.

Some of you really need to get the heck off your high horses and stop thinking with CP's "grand" tunnel vision.

As you didn't feel the need to make a Nyquil comment Gonch, I won't make any comments about your (or gator's) well-honed ability to pick your own names out of a steaming pile of poo. ;)

You know what this thread's missing? A good old Den AIM-speak overhappy babble response. What ever happened to that guy? What the hell am I talking about, this is more posts in one thread than I've made in two months ...

I feel the need to contribute meaningfully to the thread: I LIKE TO HEAR MYSELF TALK 500' 500' 50' 600' 600' 600' 700! ARROW FISHHOOK! BRING BACK TOGO! 1000', 20-LOOP ANTON SHUTTLE SPINNER WITH REVERSE THRUSTERS AND A FLUX CAPACITOR!

There, my pants fit better (think Ron White folks ... )

Just a thought on the dueling flyers theory. The rides name could possibly be "Maverick". This was also the name of Tom Cruises character in "Top Gun". This could be CP's way of theming it to be a dogfight without getting in all sorts of heap with Paramount's attorneys.

A possible element could be an interlocking duel pretzel loop. The two tracks would be perpendicular to one another with the loops interlocked. As one train is entering their loop at the top, the other train would be exiting their loop at the bottom. Depending on which train you ride, you would see the other train either above you or below you moving 90 degrees to your perspective.

Given the verdict from Ohio, I imagine they would have to install a plexi-glass shield between the two to keep people from dropping items onto the other train (phones,spit,gum..etc). Wouldn't want CP to be negligent would we?

Yea, the park's goign to build two of a coaster style that has low capacity, questionable reliability, and name it after a movie that's 20 years old (i.e. - older than the much of the target audience for such a thrill machine) and whose rights are owned by another rival company. Almost makes the 500' idea seem logical ...

Flyer capacity can be improved. Reliability has improved. B&M has experience in timing dueling coasters.

The name could be a name of a fictional pilot that just so happens to be the same name as a movie pilot. Its one of those things that slip from movies to mainstream pop culture.

This might appeal to younger parents as part of a bigger section for the whole family.

Notice all of this has been labeled "could be". No one knows, we are just having fun with some speculation here right? I just figured I'd put it out there for different consideration. Unless of course you would like to continue the 6 and a half pages of "Its a 500 footer - no its not - yes it is - no its not" - rinse away dead brain cells, repeat

^The funny thing is I don't recall any posts in this thread saying it is a 500 footer. I could read it again I suppose and maybe there is one, but all I remember seeing is all the "know-it-alls" saying that it is for sure not a height record breaker. Personally I think there is not enough evidence to say one way or the other. The look of the footers leads me to believe that the chance of a woodie is very slim now, but I won't even say that is ruled out for sure. I will say that no one in this thread has convinced me that a 500 footer is impossible just because they are disappointed with high rollercoasters and down time. Even if this ride is not 500 feet, a 500 footer will eventually be built. I am still confused as to why people who have watched CP build 4 height record breakers could seriously say that CP could not possibly have an interest in doing it again. That is kinda their thing even if it isn't yours. *** Edited 3/8/2006 3:41:25 AM UTC by RavenTTD***

After looking more closely to the footers that are in place up at CP, I'm leaning more towards a 4D coaster here.

Could anyone find a picture of the footers for X, or mabye even BORG??

My point all along is no 500 for CP in '07. That height-park-year sequence is what I am betting my life on not happening. 500 elsewhere, 500 for CP after '07, any other scenario is possible because our world thrives on ambition.

On a side note since people are reading this thread and there's no point in starting another one. For Coastermania, they close the ride lines at 8:30 for Joe Cool and resort guests to come in at 9 I believe. Are the Coastermania people allowed to ride from 9-10 on the coasters they open early to the resort guests and Joe Cool members? I went there around 2000-01 and I swear we were allowed to just do what we wanted after ERT but back then, I remember ERT ending at 9:30. Thanks.

And I agree, I would be perfectly happy with having "Enthusiast-diehard-biased fanboy" threads on a topic and then "What makes sense-what park management is thinking" threads on the same topic. I think like the latter. In my little world, CP would need to and keep on building wooden coasters but I'm not going to get into a discussion about my little desires because that's stupid. I will predict though objectively that CP builds wood within the next two projects following '07 if it is not wood.

RavenTTD - I suppose we're on page 9, so we might need a refresher.

1. Dick Kinzel said building Dragster was a mistake.
2. Cedar Point's last two record-breakers held their records for two months and two years, respectively. Still think it's worthwhile to break records?
3. Weather - think the winds and air temperature are tough to deal with at 420 feet? Try 500 feet.
4. Physics - it takes a lot of space to get up to 500 feet, and it takes even more space to dissipate the energy generated from a drop of 500 feet. I'm sure the area vacated by a 60-foot log flume is enough for that...
5. Redundancy - CP already has a 300-footer and a 400-footer. What could a 500-footer do that the existing rides don't? Want a 500-foot looper? Tell me how big those loops will be.
6. Reliability - no ride over 310 feet in height has run reliably and consistently, for various reasons (technological, mechanical, freak accidents, etc.).
7. Cost - Cedar Fair isn't Disney. $35 million for one attraction is exorbitant (unless your park is Animal Kingdom and you desperately need an attraction... and Cedar Point has how many attractions?).
8. Capacity - I sure hope this expensive record-breaking ride can accommodate the enormous number of people who will flock to CP to ride it... you know, the ones who weren't convinced to visit for the 200-, 300-, and 400- foot rides.
9. As mentioned earlier, PKI still has better attendance than CP, and they have only one ride taller than 200 feet. Surely, they have no clue what they're doing.

But you know, of all of those reasons, #1 is the most important. If the guy in charge thinks the 420-footer was a mistake, then all the other reasons don't matter.

Ok, my turn to chime in (sorry).
1) TTD was a mistake, not going 420 feet.
2) MF held the record for 2 months and was a great decision according to CP
3)Wind and air have less of an impact with cable or verticle vs launch.
4)Yes a 500 footer would take up a lot of space, and MF uses it perfectly - the space vacated by a 60 foot log flume would easily hold station, que, and brakes. Maverick, like MF could have the lift and track run along the lake.
5)Redundancy? CP had a 200 footer why did they build MF?
6)Reliability? You are kidding right - there are 4 rides world wide over 310 feet one is SBNO and 2 are rockets - poor comparison imo.
7)Capacity - the lines for Magnum and MF their first two years of operation were 4 hours - come on - a 500 footer WILL bring the crowds.

I have heard the blog you all are referring to and you are over stating Kinzel's quote. He said TTD was a disappointment in the context of the downtime, and I am sure they are disappointed. However, he did not say it was a mistake or they would never go that high again. I think you all are reading way too much into that one statement. What was he supposed to say...we loved TTD's down time? Of course he was disappointed in it. So what?

I think we're really beginning to see some desperate arguments being made. I am all for the fun and discussion of rumors, but I think that there are such things as impractical ones.

I'm being reminded of a kid sitting and plugging his ears with his fingers while screaming just not wanting to listen to reason.

Not to point this at any one poster here or anything, that is. ;)

I guess I should put a flamesuit on.. I actually sat here for a solid minute deciding whether or not to post this message, but I think it's just got to be said. Of course anyone is willing to just throw this post out the window, or openly refute it, I accept that, just PLEASE have some civility to it.. *** Edited 3/8/2006 4:58:52 AM UTC by MForce2k***

Is that footer for the inverted flume ride? ;)

Footer: The Ride

Pure Genius! It's the tallest, fastest most inovative footer in the world. The ride is, you bend over . . . well, you get the idea!

This really has gotten out of control. I will certainly take this as a wait and see progress. True it will be exciting to see what they get but throwing out rediculous ideas is not worth everyone arguing with each other for they know what is right. Ive been involved in these for way to long and now it is time to act like regular enthusiasts that we are. You dont see Jeff, Gonch, Moosh, or any of the experienced players of these games jumping the gun here. I will treat it like it should be treated with patience. If i had the slightest clue anymore it would be fun to discuss, but its really not.

Besides the point i dont want to build it up to a point where the excitement will be killed for me. Its like a swift punch in the stomach to people if they get something less than what they want. IE like going to Cedar Point to ride dragster or millennium force and they arent open things happen, and if i have a decent understanding of the industry isnt it really about families.

At least for me this was how my infatuation with amusement parks began, whether its all about coasters to you or the fact that its about breaking some kind of hypothetical record that will stand for a short time, whatever happened to letting the park try new things and reinvent itself. I for one am pretty happy with what they have there and could care less as long as they continue to provide thrills and get the park running to where it should have finished last year, by the way it wasnt all that stellar. This park can provide for all and it is still a far way from hitting the kids demographic, because of the lack of any consistent area in my opinion. They have them thrown in a few areas throughout the park, and hands down that may be a good reason as a family to go to kings island. I certainly am one to commend them on the kids area in kings mills. Cedar Point has no atmostsphere to shape the kids, the closest they come is camp snoopy, and how many young children are really taught about him. So do it for the kids in my opinion. Nothing shapes amusement parks like the family.

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Thom25 said:
5)Redundancy? CP had a 200 footer why did they build MF?
6)Reliability? You are kidding right - there are 4 rides world wide over 310 feet one is SBNO and 2 are rockets - poor comparison imo.
7)Capacity - the lines for Magnum and MF their first two years of operation were 4 hours - come on - a 500 footer WILL bring the crowds.

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5. Because Magnum was 11 years old. If Dragster was a one-trick pony, what makes you think a larger ride would be different?
6. How is it not a valid comparison? Of the five rides 310 feet and over, four have had issues of various sorts. One is a traditional chain lift, one has a cable lift, one uses LSMs, and two use hydraulic launches. You have four different technologies propelling trains to heights above 300 feet, and three of 'em have had issues.
7. 4 hour lines = bad capacity

http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/news/story.cfm?id=171

Ironic, isn't it? ;)