Cedar Point's Blog is teasing us!

CPgenius, excellent point. I don't buy into that CP vs MM arguement, CP has said the hotels represent huge money, so getting people to travel from NYC, DC, Boston, and Chicago works just fine for them I am sure since we have to spend the night!

Tom

If that is to be their niche, it's a very limited one, and one that eliminates people who don't just like endless thrill rides. And you know what? That's perfectly fine.

My point still stands though. For people like me, it takes more than big coasters, long waits and lots of downtime. I don't have the patience for it, nor the money to put into it. That's just a personal thing, but I suspect I speak for lots of park goers.

It has nothing to do with a CP vs SFMM thing, other than the fact that both parks have backed themselves into a "can you top this" corner which has completely distroyed SFMM, and made CP a whole lot less interesting. *** Edited 3/9/2006 3:52:41 PM UTC by DWeaver***

DWeaver: So I guess Maggies long lasting appeal doesn't count because it is only 200 foot? I would also assume that MF won't count either IF they ever did build a 500 footer.

hrm.... Very odd.... Magnum is 5 years older than Raptor, yet still ranks higher in polls. But I guess it has crappy lasting ability, or isn't counted in your list of rides since it is only 200 feet tall?

Correct me if im wrong

^^^ You're wrong because for whatever reason you're basing everything on polls voted on by enthusiasts in several of your posts. If you wanted to truly measure "lasting appeal" you would need to account for how many people ride it in a given year, how that compares to previous years, what the ride's max capacity is, what percentage of people coming into the park ride it, and (IMO) how large the spread is of people who are *willing* to ride it.

If everything was based on enthusiast polls you'd be missing out what is the very essence of what defines "lasting appeal" in the coaster world: Space Mountain.

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CPgenius said:
...and what if that is to be their niche?

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I think a lot of us have to come to the conclusion that that niche isn't working as well as it used to. Someone else can point you to the actual quotes from Kinzel's interveiws and elsewhere but dropping prices should be your first clue that for a lot of people, 2 coasters over 200 feet tall, one over 300 and another over 400 feet tall isn't enough to justify the price of gas, parking, admission, and feeding your family when you get there. *** Edited 3/9/2006 1:13:28 PM UTC by matt.***

Page 10 recap:

1.) CP blog shows picture of footer.

2.) Geeks pee their pants, and begin 20 pages of incessant babble, to be followed by 20+ more.

That about sums it up. Just copy and paste this in about 20 pages. :)

-Tambo

Space Mountain is a bad example because WDW has a unique ability to draw new people all the time. Most park have to rely on repeat business.

WDW is unique, but the fact remains that just because a coaster (or any ride for that matter) ranks highly among enthusiasts doesn't mean that it has any more "lasting appeal" than any other ride. I think what is popular among enthusiasts is mirrored closely with what is popular with your average park-goer but you can't use it as a litmus test like that.

If you want to look at another example, check out where The Beast ranked on the last Mitch's wooden coaster poll.

*** Edited 3/9/2006 2:32:02 PM UTC by matt.*** *** Edited 3/9/2006 2:33:43 PM UTC by matt.***

I have taken my 5 1/2 year old and my soon to be 3 year old to CP the last two seasons. You'd be astounded by the amount of rides they were actually allowed to go on. None of the big coasters of course, but all four of us could ride WWL, Himalaya, Tilt-A-Whirl, Troika, Sky Ride, CP&LE, Giant Wheel any of the 3 car rides, plus my daughter was allowed to go on Ocean Motion, Scrambler, Monster, Woodstock Express and the Matterhorn. Since I started them young they actually prefer to ride the big rides to spending time in the Kiddielands. It's amazing how many people think that when they go to CP with little kids they have to stay in Camp Snoopy or the Kiddieland at the front of the park at can't do much else. Granted, it's not Nickelodeon Central, which I do want to take my kids to, but PKI has somewhat stricter height requirements and they seem to remove more family flat rides than install new ones. When it comes down to it Waldameer is my best bet. There's only one ride there my daughter can't ride and 4 that my son can't!

I'll still take a nice new themed area though.

If the new themed area includes a new coaster, a new flume and another ride... I'd take that MUCH more than a single mega-ride. The single mega-ride would have at average, a 2hr wait during its first year... would the other average coaster? Maybe... but there'd also be other rides for sheer variety.

I'd like to see that area keep the theming of a quaint western-town like atmosphere... with that in mind, they COULD put a nice sized B&M flyer, a new flume, and maybe a small Huss ride and have it keep the general theme of the area.

Yea, it'd be nice to break the 500' marker... but c'mon... how much capital would go into that and what would be the lift/layout? It'd definately require either a unique lift, or a lot of land on top of an original layout where the ride doesn't just last 16 seconds.

Quality over quantity... but quantity is nice, too... with variety.

Good point Matt.

I based my argument off enthusiest opinion because it was just as accurate as Me going and looking at the lines in the park. I think that would be innacurrate unless I have actual figures of how many rides have been given per year. As lines and waits are false because they are based on capacity and what rate the ops at that time.

Either way it is a lot more complex math to prove a relatively simple point. Which of course is that maggie still has appeal.

Also lowering their rate is to find the optimal point in which to get people into the park and make more moeny. They won't lose money on the deal. Its actually pretty smart for CP.

People often forget that attendance isn't actually reflective on the rides ability to draw people into the park. Such things as economic situations, gas prices, ticket prices, blah blah blah. Lots of variables. I lower gate price brings more people in. A good ride also brings people in.

And saying their niche isn't working for them isn't exactly right. Obviously they are not hurting by any means. Studies probably told kinzel that lowering the price to 39.95 will bring in X more people. So this years attendance will be X more people from price cuts + X more people because of skyhawk.

Also don't forget that eventually without new rides attendance will continue to decrease. Economics to a park are a lot more complicated than the initial attendance.

The real question is: when will see that Beach Front woodie?

It would be amazing.

OK yall, I'm not good with how many of them are out there but How Many 4D coasters do we have out there?

Only 2 that I can think of would be X out in SFMM and the one under construction out in Japan i think??

Now, if this is true then the only one in the US is in SFMM and we all know how these wars between coasters with CP in the mix, so now I'm convincing myself that yes indeed CP will be a 4D coaster and it will smash alllllllllllll records including the one ova there in Japanese land....

Also, anyone know what the height,speed,length etc the new 4D ride over in Japan is???

We all know about what coaster wars? We know about the coaster wars that some believe is/was happening, but CP's next installation will have nothing to do with SFMM in any way, shape or form.

Just curious, what records are you saying the hypothetical 4D will smash? It wouldn't be hard to be the tallest, longest, fastest and have the most inversions for a 4D. But a 4D coaster will not be coming anywhere near the current height, speed and length records. Not gonna happen!

The real question...

Can Cedar Point build an attraction who's theme doesn't have the potential to kill someone. IE. TTD's tires and DT's huge rock that was hung overhead.

They did make those snazzy bleachers. ;)

Incidentalist, totally agree - a 4D won't break any world height, speed, loops, or length records - but the name Maverick fits perfectly with a 4D and CP could continue breaking records with a 4D.

There has been a lot of talk about Raptor, which when it was built broke all inverted records.

CP markets their rides by breaking records or benchmarks - Maverick could be a 4D, a mega ride with the most loops, or the tallest coaster. Whatever it is, I strongly suspect the design will use proven reliable technology.

Hope it's the tallest, but I'll be happy with whatever it is!

Tom

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Incidentalist said:
We all know about what coaster wars? We know about the coaster wars that some believe is/was happening, but CP's next installation will have nothing to do with SFMM in any way, shape or form.

Just curious, what records are you saying the hypothetical 4D will smash? It wouldn't be hard to be the tallest, longest, fastest and have the most inversions for a 4D. But a 4D coaster will not be coming anywhere near the current height, speed and length records. Not gonna happen!

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Oh but CP's coaster will have something to do with SFMM next year, I'm serious...There is only 1 4D in the US os A and CP will get the next one... What records your might ask? ALL OF THEM!!!

I only worked at Cedar Point for four years so I don't know everything...to be sure. But, I was full time and I heard things from various folks whom I know where in the know. But, I never sat in on a meeting or heard from anyone else for that matter about a situation where someone said, "uh-oh....look what Magic Mountain is doing out West."

I've said it a hundred times and Jeff has said it a thousand times: CP and Magic Mountain are not in competition. Now, Magic Mountain and Knott's Berry Farm is a different story. *** Edited 3/12/2006 12:35:20 AM UTC by wahoo skipper***

CP and SFMM are not in competition for the same people, but when your marketing approach is limited to "most, biggest, and best on the planet" then you do have to keep an eye on what else is out there on the planet. Last time I checked, SFMM is on the planet.

Hardly. LA is clearly its own little universe. ;)

*** Edited 3/11/2006 10:11:06 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

Okay, I lied. I never really checked.