Canceling trip to HW this world summer

Yeah, this "religious freedom " thing is a smoke screen and a joke. Who's religious freedom are we referring to? Every american? Or a convenient select few? Mulslims? Atheists? Santanists?

slithernoggin said:

kevin38 said:

The Americans with disabilities law is being used to attack the few older businesses that may not conform.

A business (or an individual) has the choice to obey a law or not to. "Not conforming" with a law because gay sexytime, Jewish mixed-race lesbians or people with screen names like kevin38 makes the business owner feel icky isn't an option.

We have a difference of opinion .I did not attack you personally for yours.

I would rather a business be able to tell me they do not want my business.

Than have them do a bad job of whatever it is.

I someone with a screen name of Kevin38 comes into your business are you going to do the same great job that you would do for someone you like ?

Seems like the internets took swift action against that pizza shop in Walkerton, Indiana:

http://www.memoriespizza.com/

I'm dying laughing at that. Kudos to whomever.

Hahaha

Did Anonymous do that?

it's not a hack, so no idea who did it. I'm too lazy to go to whois

With a link to Sean Cody video!

Who's phone number is that? (I'm not calling it)

Edit to add: read these Yelp reviews. Some of the reviews made me die laughing.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/memories-pizza-walkerton

CreditWh0re said:

Andy may have meant "McDonald's and Yum Brands" (collectively, though not related).

At the time McDonald's held a significant stake in Chipotle at one point (early 2000's I believe).

Yes and yes. An agreement to improve labor conditions was reached with Taco Bell in 2005 and McDonald's in 2007. I could go into more details of the organization, approach, and effect, but I didn't think anyone cared.

If you do care, the press release of the resolution is here: https://www.pcusa.org/news/2010/11/18/pcusa-leaders-praise-florida-...kers-deal/

Pete said:

Through the ages, religion has been the cause of more war, conflicts and death than any other cause devised by humans.

Pretty sure money/power is still higher on the list.

But while I don't disagree that religion can be a source of division, you're also conveniently leaving out a lot of data. How many homeless shelters, justice movements, food pantries, charities, schools, social welfare agencies, and non-profits are championed by religious people with religious ideals? Remember the Mother Teresa lady? And the MLK Jr. guy? Religious people. You can't point the finger with one hand and not acknowledge the benefit with the other and it's certainly disingenuous to argue that religion is inherently and eternally a force of division, oppression, and injustice.

kevin38 said:

I would rather a business be able to tell me they do not want my business.

I would rather a business sell me the thing they sell -- cakes, cigars, books, whatever -- and have the business owner not concern themselves with things that are of no concern to them, such as who I sleep with or which deity I worship.

What we're all witness to is the pathetic last-ditch effort by uber-conservative far-right zealots reacting to the reality that they are all about to be on the wrong side of history.

No one can deny the simple truth that it is now only a matter of months, really, until same-sex marriages are finally granted equal status by the Supreme Court. No one can deny the enormous strides made by the LGBT community in terms of acceptance.

What absolutely dumbfounds me was the reaction by every viable GOP candidate to vocally state their support for Governor Pence and this law. Do they even want to try to get elected? Or is it their mission to prove once and for all that in social terms their party really is living in an alternate dimension.

Religion can be used for good or evil.

Extremism cannot.

Amen to that.

OhioStater said:

What absolutely dumbfounds me was the reaction by every viable GOP candidate to vocally state their support for Governor Pence and this law. Do they even want to try to get elected?

Actually it's very simple. They HAVE to win over the rabid right wing faction of their party in thee of the 4 early primary/caucus states (Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Nevada). Without strong wins there, they can't make it to Super Tuesday (see Giuliani, Rudolph). Primaries and Caucuses are usually low turnout, but the voters are heavily motivated. Which usually means higher levels of evangelical Christians than the normal demo of the party, and certainly of the population at large.

Iowa caucuses are totally dominated by the religious right so they have to appeal to them (as proof note that the winners of Iowa for the last two cycles were Huckabee and Santorum).

What they think can happen is the Mitt Romney "Etch-A-Sketch" plan, where once they win the Republican nomination, the restart at the middle with a clean slate, and then try to win the Moderates (assuming the base has no other place to go.

It's cynical, horrible, and true. However, I don't think (with Indiana RFRA as the example) that they're going to be able to ignore or evade their positions come summer/fall of 2016.

John Knotts said:

Santanists?

I didn't realize Carlos had such a die-hard fan base.

All I know is I'm so tired of being used as a scapegoat every time some lazy Republican wants a quick road to Washington.

I was reading about the Indiana pizzeria whose owner appeared on the local news saying they would never cater a gay wedding. (I'm guessing they've also never been asked to cater a wedding, gay or otherwise.) Social media went crazy; they subsequently said they are of course happy to serve gay couples in the pizzeria.

And I thought, what? So it's cool to take gay money here, but not there? The owner's religious beliefs can't tolerate endorsing same sex marriages, but their religious beliefs are AOK with counting the same sex dollars that walk in the door?

It reminded me of a Winston Churchill bit. He asked a woman at a party if she would sleep with him for five millions pounds. She said she probably would. He asked if she'd sleep with him for five pounds, and she responded "What kind of woman do you think I am?" His answer: "We've already established that. Now, we are haggling about price."

I have to think that the bakers and florists around the country who can't bring themselves, due to their deeply held religious convictions, to "participate in"* same sex weddings are perfectly happy to otherwise accept orders from gays and lesbians.

Short story long. Certainly in the case of that pizzeria, and most likely with many of those bakers and florists, their principles are for sale. Now they're just haggling over price.

*I don't get this objection. Unless they've an invitation to the wedding, then they're like the caterer and the tuxedo rental shop: vendors, not participants.

I don't get the concern over the pizza shop.

If you find that I'm serving pizza at my Big Gay Wedding let me know right away, as there's been some huge mistake, k?

The last big gay wedding I went to did not have pizza, but it did have a french fry bar toward the end, which was perfectly timed after many fruity drinks. It was the best wedding reception I've ever been to other than my own.