Canceling trip to HW this world summer

RollerCoasterGod said:

So please be respectful of their faith without twisting it to fit your logic.

I can barely read this through the irony.

Sorry for the double post...

Regulus: How nice that you've never had "a bad meal served by a Jew." Did they all offer you just one entree, take it or leave it? Or did they commit the wretched sin of offering you choices that might cater to your tastes?

RollerCoasterGod: "...please be respectful of their faith..." "There are reasons Muslims don't...." Well. I will take note of your wise lesson on being respectful of other people's faith....

LostKause said:

Sorry for the double post, but I just realized that my point in a post above might have been misinterpreted. I did not explain well enough, methinks.

The "don't eat pork" rule is in Leviticus. The "Don't be gay" rule is also in Leviticus. How can one rule matter and the other one not?

Because pork doesn't make Christianists feel icky. But gay sex does.

To my knowledge I've never met RollerCoasterGod, but I'm sure he must look like Eric Cartman.

CreditWh0re said:

LostKause said:

Sorry for the double post, but I just realized that my point in a post above might have been misinterpreted. I did not explain well enough, methinks.

The "don't eat pork" rule is in Leviticus. The "Don't be gay" rule is also in Leviticus. How can one rule matter and the other one not?

Because pork doesn't make Christianists feel icky. But gay sex does.

No not quite.

It's more simple. Christians eat pork because of later teachings in the New Testament, Words of Christ himself, Christ shedding his blood for All.

Christians (I use this loosely, because as we all know there are many types of Christians of many faiths...and I don't think any of us can speak for them all) do our best to stay on the straight path. Unlike pork, which was "cleared" for eating in the Bible. A man with a man, or a woman with a woman (I won't say Gay, because I haven't found any term in the Bible that says the word Gay) is still a Sin.

Not the biggest, not the smallest. I/We all have sinned. That's why like I said earlier, we/I can't be the one to judge (nor should any of us) on I'm soooo much better or you're sooo much better.

When I say respect others religions I guess I need to be more clear.

I have gone to a Mosque with my wife over in the middle East. She had to wear a scarf over her head. My wife NEVER wears scarfs over her head, but she did it as a sign of respect to their culture. I wear baseball caps all the time. I don't wear it a church. I swear sometimes, it's a sin. I know I don't do it when I'm around a religious gathering, as a sign of respect. We can go on and on and on...but that's my point of being respectful. There is a time and a place sure.

Some people consider different forms of Sin being "waved/shoved" in their face violates their beliefs (on both sides).

Again, I know the Gay thing keeps coming up. But their are many great many people out there (including the Gay community of which one recently backed up some of the statements on here with the pizza place and apologizing for others of the "attack".)

These "lenchings" have to stop on all sides, not matter what faith. Can the law be worded better? I'm sure. but right now it covers all walks. Ones I agree with, and ones I don't.

Do you take this act on the road? You're one big piece of performance art aren't you?

CreditWh0re said:

Do you take this act on the road? You're one big piece of performance art aren't you?

No act, just genuineness. I'm lucky enough to have met many walks of life, experience other's religions and culture while traveling the World with friends and co-workers...all while riding some amazing roller coasters with amazing people. :)

I am not sure if it has been mentioned before, but this silly boycott can be lifted now, because our government has made it illegal to use the RFRA to discriminate.

This chapter does not: (1) authorize a provider to refuse to offer or provide services, facilities, use of public accommodations, goods, employment, or housing to any member or members of the general public on the basis of race, color, religion, ancestry, age, national origin, disability, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or United States military services; (2) establish a defense to a civil action or criminal prosecution for refusal by a provider to offer or provide services, facilities, use of public accommodations, goods, employment, or housing to any member or members of the general public on the basis of race, color, religion, ancestry, age, national origin, disability, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, or United States military Service

http://cbs4indy.com/2015/04/02/watch-live-indiana-lawmakers-announc...ation-act/

Slither, this was a set\up by the left to force thier agenda down the throats of those who disagree with the gays lifestyle. As someone asked about my lesbian friends holding hands. IT's ok as long as they don't force acceptance as normal on others. Slither being hetero is natural and is accepted while the gay and lesbian lifestyle is something they choose.

When someone says something stupid like that it makes me wish one or more of their kids would turn out to be gay. Not that I'd wish for a gay kid to be raised in that environment, but to illustrate that sexual identity is not a matter of choice, and to lead someone to a better understanding of the actual process.

I know it worked for my parents. All they had to do was get one of their own.

Screamlord said:

Slither, this was a set\up by the left to force thier agenda down the throats of those who disagree with the gays lifestyle. As someone asked about my lesbian friends holding hands. IT's ok as long as they don't force acceptance as normal on others.

This isn't about getting anything down your throat, or any other throats. It isn't about acceptance either. It's about not being an asshole to other human beings. It's not more complicated than that.

I think that might be the biggest disconnect. This notion that there is somehow religious persecution is completely absurd. Those people running the pizza joint don't deserve threats of violence, but the idea that they're being targeted for their beliefs is ridiculous. They're being targeted for being assholes toward a segment of people that didn't do anything to them.

I really get tired of the whole Christians shouldn't eat pork. You all do realize that the mosaic law was for Jews practicing Judaism, not Christians following Christ, right?

Travis, I completely understand the hang-up with the Leviticus side of things, and I think Christians set themselves up to get called out when that's the direction they go. Acts 10:9-16 offers an explanation on why pork is no longer considered unclean. Romans 1:24-27 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 offer New Testament discussions on homosexuality. Hopefully that fixes some of the issues over the Leviticus side of things.

I particularly like verse 11, though, because it's a subtle reminder that salvation is for all, and I think it's a reminder we as Christians should take heed of any time we start thinking we can take a self-righteous approach to such issues. I know that passage is directed at the Corinthian church, but honestly, is today's church any different?

Now, if you want to really hit us Christians back with Scripture, I'd recommend just about the entirety of Romans 3, and I also found a nice passage in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13. That passage pretty much torpedoes the approach we as Christians so often take. Our ignorance of the fact that every one of us (I'm referring to Christians specifically here) has his or her own laundry list of sins is why we can't have nice things. ;)

Also, if I may offer an additional point, when we place homosexuality on some sort of elevated plane where it's regarded like some sort of epic sin that is far worse than most others, we've really gone off the deep end. In the Scriptures I referenced, lust is brought up as well, and I really struggle with that one myself. Hence, I'm in no place to judge.

Again, I know how touchy this issue is, but I want to express my appreciation for those who don't consider themselves Christian for offering some accountability to those of us who do. We're far from perfect, and I apologize for the times where we try to come off like we don't ever do anything wrong. This entire conversation has plenty of examples of how we as Christians are as sinful as they come, and it is to our benefit to be reminded of that.

Well, as mentioned, in Paul's letter to the Romans, 23-27 he might actually be pointing out the sin of lust (as he references the inflamed passions) of the people's in 24-27, not the act itself. There's also the part of being unclean, as in unclean for the temple, (just as a woman wasn't allowed in during her time of the month), just because "it" didn't get showered off completely. but again, I digress.

As mentioned above, the Indiana bill, has been modified, so, now let's all get on the road to Holiday World. I'd love to change/edit the title of this post but I don't think the system allows that.

Things I've learned from this:

1) Big Business trumps social conservatives in the Republican Party

2) A universal truth is that no one expects gays to have pizza at their wedding

3) There is an F-Ton of money to be made (over $450K so far) by being first mover to proclaim your bigotry on television.

4) Mike Pence will now be so toxic that he won't even be invited to the GOP convention next summer, let alone have any hopes for being part of the national ticket

On the subject of your second point, and this is the question that I think should have been the first one asked, but who caters their weddings with pizza anyway? Is that some Indiana-specific thing? When I think of cuisine at such formal occasions as weddings, Papa John's doesn't come to mind. ;)

Seriously, EVERY article I've seen, is followed up in the comments with tons of "what self respecting gay would have pizza at their wedding" snark.

But she who shall not cater has raked in close to $500K so far on the GoFundMe thing, and she's on Fox Business this morning completing the grift-o-rama.

I was referring to weddings in general. It was a light-hearted comment made in an attempt to lighten the mood. No snark was intended.

"Sin" might be the worst idea humankind has ever come up with.

You want to look to the past to follow the good examples of an historical figure? Fine.

You want to believe in an afterlife because you are afraid of death, and can't stand the thought that you will never see your lost loved ones again? Fine.

You want to believe in a higher power because you face difficult challenges in life and want to think that you're not alone, that there's some divine force driving you? Fine.

But when you start linking human morality to post-death consequences that will last for eternity, it's a recipe for disaster. When people become convinced that their god wants them to do this or that and wants them to refrain from doing this or that, bad things happen. Just use common sense and, as Jeff says, don't be an asshole to other people. Do it not because that's what God wants, but because it's the right thing to do. Morality comes from within, not from above. I'll take the Bill of Rights over the Ten Commandments every day of the week.

Bakeman31092 said:

Morality comes from within, not from above.

I actually agree with the majority of your post. But regarding the above thought, if there isn't some greater authority for morality, is it really just the whims of the people of the time?

Re: Homosexuality and the bible
I don't have much more to contribute to the discussion except to say that homosexuality in both Paul's time and in Levitical times was very different than it is today. There was absolutely no avenue for homosexuals to have a life-long committed relationship...or any committed relationship for that matter. Both Paul and Leviticus condemned promiscuity among heterosexuals right along side homosexuality (which could only be expressed in promiscuity). I don't think it's clear that either was reacting to who was being promiscuous as much as the promiscuity itself, hetero or homo. (Not to huge laundry list of other sins mentioned along side homosexuality that we don't seem to give a rat's ass about).

Sems weird so many are getting caught up in Leviticus. I don't have any tattoos in large part because I'm pain-averse, but if you're going in for a penny, might as well go in for a pound. Tattoos are even more prevalent than homosexuality, and I don't have a problem with shellfish either (or with pork, ham or bacon - the holy triumvirate of pig products).

Jesus was pretty short and to the point, though (and I paraphrase):

• Love God with your heart and soul.
• Treat your neighbors neighborly.

Trey and Matt made it even simpler than Jesus did: "Now Skeeter, he ain't hurtin' nobody."