Canceling trip to HW this world summer

rollergator wrote:

I'm a left-leaning Christian and I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure that our government remains secular - as Jesus intended.

Hmmm...Luke 20:24-25. :)

--Dave Althoff, Jr. (not generally one to quote scripture, but it seemed appropriate)

Don't you just LOVE these little wars? <LOL>

RollBackDog said:
The point is they DO have the influence .... the gentleman who represents the district where HW sits voted FOR the law.

Holiday World does not get to vote for representatives (as much as the Supreme Court seems to dabble in the idea the companies are people). Elected officials are accountable to voters, not companies. Unless it's at the federal level, then you can buy your congresscritter.

And as I said before, the call for boycotts was a little premature when the ink had not even dried long enough to see how the larger Indiana constituency would react. Clearly, it's pissed. Even Indianapolis' Republican mayor is even out front saying the law has to be changed or repealed.

Holiday World does not get to vote for representatives (as much as the Supreme Court seems to dabble in the idea the companies are people). Elected officials are accountable to voters, not companies

And as I said before, the call for boycotts was a little premature

You are right HW doesn't have voting rights but it's management does. My statement was assuming HW management and staff lived in the same district as the park. They would have an influence as voters AND as reps for a business that could be a very important revenue generator for the district.

We disagree on the appropriateness of the boycott. The truth is nothing will change without the boycotts creating pressure on the Indiana constituency. Remember it was that constituency that voted these folks into office. Now with even NASCAR making a statement ... the pressure is on.

Please note I appreciate the open conversation here and do wish the one Born Again Christian guy an enjoyable trip riding roller coasters in Indiana. He may not have to worry about lines at all this summer!

Heard back from Holiday World and Lake Rudolph with exactly the support I expected. Our trip is still on, though we may be spending a lot less $$ than usual on the way, especially in Indiana. Still, I am dedicated to steering clear of businesses that would treat me as inferior, and support those who are doing the right things.

While some Bakers and Photographers object to participating in same-sex marriages on religious grounds I'm sure more than enough businesses would gladly cater to the same-sex crowd. Remember, Christians have rights to, and some of us are getting tired of having our rights stepped on. Freedom is a double-edged sword, and it cuts BOTH WAYS!

Yes but 99.9 percent of your posting on the subject is mindless bigotry. It's the arrogance of "I'm getting raptures and you're probably not".

What happened to Jesus' teachings on love and repentance and the bibles lessons against arrogance,pride, and judging others.

You're judging others. That's why you're receiving it in return.

Jeff said...

...(as much as the Supreme Court seems to dabble in the idea the companies are people)...

In fact, in the Indiana statute in question, companies and other organizations are explicitly defined as people (or is it persons, I forget which) for the purposes of the law. Which, I guess, is where some of the hand-wringing originates, as it gives individual religious rights to organizations and corporations.

Let me point out something I mentioned over on Failbook. If you are trying to make a political statement aimed at the Indiana legislature by not visiting Holiday World, based on the idea of not contributing to the State, please note that Holiday World will notice your absence roughly 93% more than the State of Indiana will. Assuming the entire amount of a HoliWood Nights registration is subject to sales tax, that's less than $3. You can still go to the park and make a bigger statement by going across the border for gas and (especially) lodging, both of which are subject to a much higher tax rate than other sales.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

RollBackDog said:
The truth is nothing will change without the boycotts creating pressure on the Indiana constituency.

I don't think you're paying attention... we're not even a week into it and the outrage has been pretty effective without any boycotts.

Exactly. Threats work. Boycotts? Not so much. Just ask BP or Chick Fil A.

I'm not sure how one goes about boycotting an entire state. I understand that tourism and commerce play a big factor and actions can impact that. And I suppose I can throw away my Red Gold ketchup. But what about the 6.597 million people that live there? What are they supposed to do? Boycott themselves? Wither away to nothing? Move?

Not trying to be too simple here,...

Double post to respond to Tek.

I was just hearing a discussion on the radio tonight about boycotts, and they pointed out how they do work, but only to a degree. They usually only lose the customers that were the maddest anyway. Coors spent millions of dollars trying to win the gays back but to this day you don't see a gay dude with a Coors in his hand. Cracker Barrel claims to have come around by changing their policies but we still don't eat there. And even if S. Truett Cathy Jr. should marry his boyfriend (and as much as I love a good waffle fry) I will never spend a red cent at Chic Fil-A again as long as I live. Those companies, in spite of my efforts, continue to thrive without me and my gay brethren.

So as far as Indiana goes I feel pretty sure that they won't notice if I visit their amusement park or not, and that's a shame because I really would like to help. A better action, and we're talking about something bigger than a chicken sandwich here, would be for large, prominent organizations and corporations to promise to pull out and take their money and people with them if this isn't fixed. We know there's already serious discussion around that, so maybe it will work. If nothing else it's clear that Indiana's reputation as a nice place is in fat trouble and they will at least go down forever as an historical footnote.

As of today my biggest concern about a trip to Indiana this summer is that I might run into Regulus while I'm there and I can't think of anything I should avoid more.

Oh, Regulus....

I think it's cute that Miss Thing wants to take her "Fundamental" Christian dollars and spread them all around Holiday World, a park that "will always... respect every single guest who chooses to spend their day with us, regardless of age, gender, race, sexual orientation or religious beliefs." (Emphasis added.)

Spending your money at a gay-welcoming business is clearly the best way to prove something to the gays that are stomping all over the rights of America's poor, persecuted Christian minority....

Regulus affirms an observation I've made over my many years. Those that feel compelled to loudly proclaim their Christian values are those least likely to live by Christian values.

RCMAC said:

I'm not sure how one goes about boycotting an entire state.

I drove all the way down and around through Kentucky to get to Illinois from Ohio.

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to ramble on elsewhere....

What sporting organization is "...disappointed by the recent legislation passed in Indiana. We will not embrace nor participate in exclusion or intolerance. We are committed to diversity and inclusion within our sport..."?

NASCAR. Governor Pence has staked out a position to the right of NASCAR.

RCMAC said:

to this day you don't see a gay dude with a Coors in his hand.

Or anyone with taste buds for that matter...

Circling back on this topic one more time:

Josh Marshall has a very insightful analysis of just how much of a change this Indiana uproar has become, see the link way down the page.

I think Jeff (without putting words in his mouth) has been trying to articulate some of this, when mentioning how not going to HW, in an attempt to boycott all things Indiana, is no longer necessary. Jeff has been saying this for a while, because I think he grasped how large the pushback was, perhaps before a lot of us.

However, as I've said (a few pages back) I think it was very necessary in the beginning. Do you really think that if FB and Twitter hadn't exploded, that all of the Final Four teams would make formal statements about it? Movements don't just happen, they start with something, and usually that's in the form of a boycott threat, only because in the past, that was the only way to cast sunshine on things that needed it. It used to be very hard to get media/corporate attention focused on things that weren't in your own backyard. That's changed now (for good or bad we'll see), but it's definitely a new era.

As Josh says:

"I doubt very much that most of the companies and organizations that have announced boycotts or opposition in recent days thought they would be doing so before Salesforce's Marc Benioff made his announcement just five days ago."

I'll put HW out there as being in front of this as well, their post was online the day after the bill was signed (and if I could remember better, I would say it was probably less than 24 hours).

Full article at the link below. Yes, he's a liberal, but it's one of the best news and analysis sites on the web.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-bigger-deal-than-you-think

slithernoggin said:

NASCAR. Governor Pence has staked out a position to the right of NASCAR.

The NASCAR organization has consistently tried to differentiate their brand from their fans (as we've discussed before, I am not one of its fans). I'm not surprised by this at all, but it's a big big step, that shouldn't be laughed off. NASCAR as a brand is totally aware of the mood of the nation, even if its die hard fans might not be as far along in that discussion.

It's going to cause some very interesting interviews in local and national press, some that I'm sure the participants would rather not have had to face.

Kudos to them for it.

RCMAC said:

A better action, and we're talking about something bigger than a chicken sandwich here, would be for large, prominent organizations and corporations to promise to pull out and take their money and people with them if this isn't fixed.

One thing that's struck me as this story has developed is the response from just such organizations and corporations, including NCAA, NASCAR, Angie's List, Eli Lilly, Subaru, AFSCME, Salesforce, Yelp, Apple, Indiana-based Delta Faucet, Anthem and Emmis Communications.

Regulus said:

While some Bakers and Photographers object to participating in same-sex marriages on religious grounds I'm sure more than enough businesses would gladly cater to the same-sex crowd. Remember, Christians have rights to, and some of us are getting tired of having our rights stepped on. Freedom is a double-edged sword, and it cuts BOTH WAYS!

It would be great if everyone could respect everyone ... the problem Regulus is from this side it seems like the Christian Bakers and Photographer cherry pick from the bible what is against christianity for them ... It that kind of hypocrisy that makes it feel more like bigotry and less like a religious conviction ... check out the link below for and example ..

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/10-situations-where-chr...ing-cakes/