Anyone Glad that Holiday's new coaster is not the longest?

Its funny how people's love for Beast dwindles the more they travel beyond Cincinnati and begin to experience some truly great wooden coasters.

They wouldn't even have to travel far, that is if LeSourdsville was open. :-(

Well said, Moosh. ;-)

-Tina

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Chitown said:
Were you disappointed when the Beast lost its tallest and fastest record to the American Eagle at SFGAm 2 years later?

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I'm guessing he wasn't alive then.

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Beast Fan said:
And yes, I do feel that it would be not a classy move to take away the Beast's longest wooden coaster record.

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Unless of course it was PKI itself that did it, right?

Moose:

I have traveled all over the usa and canada and have ridden over 120 coasters or so. This includes highly regarded wooden coasters such as Raven, Legend, Phoenix, Lightning Racer, Cornball Express, among others. In my opinion I rather be on the Beast than all those other coasters. Legend is a close second. If you want you could private message me to see my track record, and top 10 list for wood and steel, I have an excel file with it.

my top 10 wooden coasters:

1. Beast at Paramount Kings Island

2. Legend at Holiday World

3. Raven at Holiday World

4. Knobels Twister

5. Lightning Racer at Hershey Park

6. Wildcat at Hershey Park

7. Viper at Six Flags Great America

8. Thunder Run at Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom

9. Phoenix at Knobels

10. Cornball Express at Indiana Beach.

Just out of my top 10 are Gwazi at BGT,Hoosier Hurricane at IB, Grizzly and Hurler at PKD, and Blue streak at Cedar Point. Wood coasters are tempormental, but to me the Beast offered the most consistant ride, with skids or the new braking system. To me the ride is similar experience with either the skids or the magnetics, just faster in certain sections but greater braking acceleration for a shorter duration. Most of the ride is the same though.

The Beast is also the best night ride, with a close second and third for legend and raven. I understand why people like Legend and Raven, there second and third on my list. Just don't understand people making general comments that the Beast sucks now, that only local enthusiast that are not well traveled like it, or its popularity is dwindling. I see no evidence of that. If you could keep your personal feelings aside from the ride and look at it objectively, the ride is one of the most loved rides by the general public and enthusiasts. It is constantly ranked in top 10 list, it has its own video, two books, even two rides with that are related (its son and Beastie). Not to mention that Raven, Legend, and Voyage are inspired by the Beast, with their forest and terrain setting, and tunnels. If you think the ride is no good fine, but at least talk intelligently on the points you are making. It would be nice to have an argument with people that have some facts to support what they are saying.

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Beast Fan said:
It would be nice to have an argument with people that have some facts to support what they are saying.

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I think Moosh is off base making vast generalizations about people who still love the Beast (me included) and small ride counts but at the same time, taste is completely subjective. You can have all the "facts" you want about the Beast, but if it isn't someone's cup of tea, it just isn't going to change their mind.

Records are made to be broken. Cedar Point hasn't held onto a record for more than a year (post Magnum).

I think it would've been a great move for HW to go for the gold and break the world's longest record. But, since that didn't happen it's no big deal to me. I just can't wait to ride the darn thing....
:)

Jeff:

you are right that I was not alive, but speed and height records will most likely only last for a few years. It is more marketable to have the tallest and fastest coasters, but longest I am not so sure. Really did Cedar Point when they buit Top Thrill Dragster or Magnum or any other record breaker, care that it was not the longest. I just think saying that your ride is the biggest, tallest, and fastest around, brings in the guest.

Longest is a different story. Making a ride longer just for a record, might not be wise when it comes to marketabiltiy or economics. Does the extra cost justify the additional marketing advantage of claiming that your ride is the longest? I seem to not think so, or why would the Beast record stand for so long. Also you have to consider that to build a wooden coaster that long, you need to have two lift hills, or a really big first lift. Son of Beast is 218 feet tall and the tallest wooden coaster, yet it is 7000 feet long. It also probably could not go for much longer considering that it does not have much speed at the end of the ride, and how high the station is up.

Without going into the details of losses in coasters such as the two primary losses wind resistance from drag, and wheel resitance from the wheels and track, a wood coaster to break the length might need a 180-230 foot high lift hill to break the record. Either that or two lift hills, and you are talking about some major cost to build such a thing. Holiday world probably decided that it was not worth the extra dollars to do it.

Actually I was glad that son of beast did not break the longest wood coaster record, because once again not sure if even PKI breaks it how classy a move it would be. I am sure PKI made sure that son of beast was not the longest for that reason. I do feel that if a park should break the record, it should be PKI. Even still they are probably one of the few parks who have the resources to do it anyway. A track record that they can maintain large wooden coasters, a history of adding world class one of a kind rides and rides that have opened with records, and room to expand. *** Edited 7/14/2005 3:41:30 PM UTC by Beast Fan***

Oh don't mind Moosh, he's just jealous cause his home park has sucky woodies..LOL! ;-)A little love goes to the Colossus though. :-)

Nice list! 5 out of those 10 made my list as well as far as the GT awards....(not in any particular order except for the 1st 4).

1. Thunderhead

2. Lightning Racer

3. Legend

4. Roar

5. the coaster formerly known as Tsunami

6. Zippin Pippin

7. Viper (Great America)

8. Screechin Eagle

9. Raven

10. Thunder Run (SFKK)

A know a few of those don't have a snowball's chance in Hades (which I haven't ridden yet..lol) but they come from personal tastes like yours, from all my travels. Phoenix and Cornball would of made it as well if they allowed "ties".

What that saying? If we all agreed the same life would be boring. ;-)

-Tina

*** Edited 7/14/2005 3:46:35 PM UTC by coasterqueenTRN***

Alex Trbek: Under 100' tall, short, NASTY whups anything with 'Beast' in the name. Any day, any time.

Contestants: BUZZZ!

Contestant 1: What is Avalanche!

Alex: Correct!

Contestant 2: You mean, what is Cyclops?

Alex: Okay, that too.

Somebody in the audience: What is PHOENIX?

Alex: Oh, my

Quoth yet somebody else: RAAAAVVVEEEEEN!

Alex: 110' foot drop, but 80' lift hill. Judges? Correct!

Contestant 3: Why don't we just throw out this question, Alex? Only an idiot wouldn't have a good answer.

Alex: Correct!

-CO

Of course I was making a generalization. Some people will continue to love Beast no matter how many coasters they ride. But generally speaking the more truly great wooden coasters a person rides the more they realize how mediocre Beast really is.

I first rode Beast in 1983. It remained my favorite wooden coaster until I started travelling extensively in the early 90s. It is now currently ranked at #69 out of a total of 92 wooden coasters I've ridden.

But hey if you love it and it brings you joy more power to ya! ;)

If Beast is sooo mediocre, why did HW copy some of Beast's travelling of the terrain? When you get down to it, after the three 100ft. drops, it mostly just follows the terrain.

As my wife says...thankfully...it ain't the size (or length) of the ship but the motion of the Ocean.

The Beast isn't great because it is long. The beast is great b/c of the speed on the terrain, the drop, the helix, etc.

It was something that broke the mold back in the 70s. It's always gonna have its place in the park and a place in history, records or no. It's always gonna have a line and a place in people's hearts

For that matter, VF's WT is a big sentimental fave of mine--and why not? It's a hyper a half-hour from home. Before MF, it was the tallest coaster in the CF chain. For years, it had the world's longest zero-G zone (hill #2). It's still at least half of a great time, even when the trims are biting.

But hail it as a world-beater? Oh, puh-leeze. The next closest hyper just plain whups it in every way possible. I'd look silly naming myself after it and bringing it up in every coaster-related conversation.

See what we're saying?

-'Playa

If Beast is sooo mediocre, why did HW copy some of Beast's travelling of the terrain?

What makes YOU so sure they copied Beast? There are plently of other -- and BETTER -- terrain woodies to emulate. Looking at the layout it looks to me like they took their inspiration from any coaster[s] it was Tremors and Boulder Dash.

Why are you getting so defensive? Why are you so bothered by the fact that some people do not love your favorite woodie? Lots of people don't love my favorite woodie....do you see me crying?

*** Edited 7/14/2005 4:09:55 PM UTC by Mamoosh***

I'll agree with that Moosh. There are plenty of terrain coasters out there that don't have anything to do with the Beast. Actually...there were plenty before the Beast. Did the people at KI take their inspiration from the coasters at Kennywood in 77/78? I'm thinking...um...no.

Heres what I see in Voyage. First three hills. Shivering Timbers, hills four, five and six Tremors. The turn around is kinda like Boulder Dash but not. Only simularity is the elevation drop. The Return trip has Hades, Boss and Texas Giant written all over it with a touch of legend.

The ending can only remind me of SFNE S:ROS with its dive under and over the walkways and tunnel

Chuck, who's surprised Will didn't throw a cobra roll in there for good measure :)

I totally agree w/ya, matt. Seems to me the best place for GG to get their inspiration is from the terrain itself.

You guys are ridiculous. Nobody's crying except you. I'm not bothered that you don't like the Beast...good for you. But to say that only people who like the Beast have never been outside of Ohio, is, well, stupid. I have been outside of Ohio.

So what chuck, should HW called it"the shiveringtremorboulderhadesbossgiantlegendrideofsteel"now thats a mouthful;) *** Edited 7/14/2005 4:21:53 PM UTC by Tycoontitan***

How the thread title turned into "everything is better than the Beast" is beyond me, but I'll Bite.

Why does it matter? I'm gonna bring up my favorite coaster any chance I can get. Why? Its my favorite coaster. So what if Beast Fan talks about the Beast. It is far from my favorite coaster, not my favorite wooden coaster, but, and I was talking to chillforce about this about a month ago, I'm glad its still the longest.

Someone Said: I'd look silly naming myself after it and bringing it up in every coaster-related conversation.

Whatever. Beast Fan can name himself, bring it up in any conversation, and how that makes him look silly is beyond me. OTOH, trying to bully everybody that doesn't agree with one makes one look silly...

I'm glad Beast is still the longest. That was the point of the thread. You can agree or disagree. Noone here said it was the End all, Be all coaster. It may be Beast Fan's number one, but I don't recall Beast Fan ever telling me that I had to like beast better than my 2 favorite wooden coasters, one a sentimental (swampfox, my number one), and one an excellent coaster (Thunderhead).

Again, Yes, I'm glad, and I hope SFGAdv doesn't go for longest either at this point.

Edit: mOOSH never said the only people that like beast have never been out of Ohio. He just said that its amazing how most people get out of Cincy and discover better coasters. I agree with that, but I still like the beast, if for nothing more than it is a long, long coaster. *** Edited 7/14/2005 4:28:37 PM UTC by TeknoScorpion***