X Gone at SF Magic Mountain

Damn Six Flags for This !!

That $6,000,000 loss os Sf's own fault. The pressured arrow into selling them the ride and blame arrow for the loss. Thats a bunch of BS !!!!

I hope they dont get thier $6M that they don't need of they have not already gotten it. Arrow needs it more.

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"We are the Few, The Proud, the Coaster Enthusiest !!" Did I spell Enthusiest right ?

You don't pressure grown men in established business. Arrow and SF has only themselves to blame for this mess. It takes two to tango...

I heard a rumor about X. It drug a rider through the whole ride because the chairgave way due to stress. THIS IS A RUMOR. Do you guys have any clear answers?

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The former Newbie to coasters. Ridden 100 coasters. Not so new anymore :)

If riders were really endangered, hurt, and/or killed then it would have been on the news. Six Flags doesn't have Disney's clout to cover stuff of that magnatude up, so it's all silly rumor.

Don't you guys remember what happened with Superman The Escape.

Marine World Freak said:
Man this sucks! I'm planning to head out to LA on June 24th to ride X and now it will most likely be down! Well I guess i get Deja Vu and Xcelerator.............

...And Ghostrider, Montezooma, Goliath, Superman, Riddler.....

timbobarry said:
Don't you guys remember what happened with Superman The Escape.

Ya but they didn't open it to find out they had to fix it. They were willing to wait and fix the problems.

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Veck
http://pumpingrct.topcities.com/

This certainly spells doom for any 4-D's popping up anytime soon. We do need to thank Six Flags for destroying not one, but two manufacturers while trying to make themselves look good. By pushing Vekoma and Arrow into building rides that were not fully tested, they were both forced into bankruptcy. I'm not saying that this would not have happened anyway, but it certainly helped the process along. Personally I can't stand Vekoma's rides, but they were competition for the industry, and competion is good. Arrow is not afraid to take chances (Magnum), but they should have known their limitations and just said no.

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geneticfreak said:
Arrow is not afraid to take chances (Magnum), but they should have known their limitations and just said no.
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And that is Six Flag's fault???? I could swear some other park chain had problems with Vekoma back in 2000 also...(sarcasm)but then again that's probably Six Flag's fault too. (/sarcasm)

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God is Good!

Hmmm.... no wonder the two mechanical engineers for the X vehicle quit mid project

I posted a news item about this, but Coasterbuzz.com never accepts my news articles! Anyways, the X rollercoaster is closed and will possibly remaian close for the whole season. From what I heard the ride had an accident in which they were left with no trains to operate on the track. The event is so serious that SFMM has taken all links to the ride from their website. An official announcement from the park is expected later this summer.

Six Flags asked Vekoma to build not one, but FOUR of these untested beasts at parks all over the world, not to mention X-flight and Batwing. Think of the millions of dollars Vekoma had to shell out to build these six coasters only to have Six Flags hold the payment for them the only one that might run properly is X-flight, but I'm not sure if it can run at capacity. So yes, because of Six Flag's pressure, they forced Vekoma to spend millions of dollars based on the prospect of being paid millions. When the payments weren't made, that spelled bankruptcy.

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http://www.lizardcam.net

No offense "geneticfreak", but those coasters you are talking about are flying coasters, not 4-D coasters. And the company that we are talking about is Arrow not Vekoma.

Maybe this point needs to be repeated. Arrow and Vekoma were not forced to do anything by Six Flags. Arrow and Vekoma are ran by mature businessmen who knew the risks involved with the deal and freely chose to accept the offer. Six Flags has not forced these companies into bankruptcy, they went there voluntarily. It is not the fault of Six Flags, it is solely Arrow's and Vekoma's fault.

Pointman,

You are correct, although Arrow was two weeks away from closing their doors when SFMM contracted with them to build the X prototype. This was a last ditch effort on Arrows part to stay afloat, they gambled and lost

This is all really a big shame. What would be pretty funny is if Cedar Fair contracted Arrow to construct a 4D and gave them sufficient time for design, quality assurance and testing, and the ride ran smothly with multiple-train operation.

PointMan said:
"Maybe this point needs to be repeated. Arrow and Vekoma were not forced to do anything by Six Flags. Arrow and Vekoma are ran by mature businessmen who knew the risks involved with the deal and freely chose to accept the offer. Six Flags has not forced these companies into bankruptcy, they went there voluntarily. It is not the fault of Six Flags, it is solely Arrow's and Vekoma's fault."

Despite my inherent disdain for "me too" posts, I'm going to repeat what Pointman said because, well, it bears repeating. It is HILARIOUS that some of you think that SFI is capable of using bully "Gestapo"-like tactics to *force* these coaster companies into submission.

In reality, you all should look at it this way, SFI was ACTUALLY the nice guy. Paramount was through with Vekoma after Stealth. And nobody wanted anything from Arrow other than a mouse and a cauldron. SFI was the ONLY theme park operator that was even willing to give these guys a chance.

Apparently, everyone was clear that this would be a little risky (new projects often are). I dont know the specifics and neither does anyone here (and if they *did* I doubt they'd talk about it). But all the terms were spelled out in the contracts. BOTH parties have agreed to be bound by that so that is what happened!

But I know that doesnt please you Six Flags Haters so maybe I'll just be quiet now...
lata,
jeremy
--who reminds the kiddies "Dont let your mouth write checks your ass cant cash!"

And I'll follow on with the "me to" posts.

It is not Six Flags fault that Arrow seriously underestimated the costs of building X.

It is not Six Flags fault that Arrow seriously underestimated how long it would take them to finish building and testing the coaster.

Arrow went into this knowing full well the risks, and they bit themselves in the tail. As much as I love X (and trust me, I do), if it's not working right still, then there is no reason that the park should be paying full price for a coaster that's not working the way it should.

Arrow should have known better than to build such a huge first model. Instead of a vertical drop, they could have gone with a 60-70 degree one, easing the forces and possibly making the ride much more viable. Or a variety of other things. Instead Arrow went all out. Very possibly a huge mistake that may cost them the company.

It's sad. I really like Arrow overall, and would hate to see them disappear, but there's no one here at fault but themselves for promising to deliver a product that they couldn't.

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Sometimes it's up. Sometimes it's down.
But with God, life is one thrill ride that you'll never regret being on.

Sir Willow,

Bravo, you have summed it up nicely, and today is the day Arrow is in Federal court in Salt Lake City to determine their future

First, I'm glad to hear the SFMM has shown the class to remove "X" from all of their advertising while it is down. This is unlike another park that has continued to feature a coaster in its advertising even thought the coaster has not opeated all year.

Second, design and fabrication issues. No matter how much the customer pressures you, you must be careful to not take on a project that you can't successfully complete. If you do let yourself get pressured into it, then you and the customer are both fools. Note that I have no knowledge of what actually happened here.

The track design should be straight forward. Given the weight of the train, You can easily design a track to carry it. Nothing here is ground breaking. Early photos indicated poor welding as a source of problems. It is beginning to sound like there were also design issues. The design of the train would be more complex.

If I owned "X" I'd also be doing my best to get all of the drawings and design calcs. With that much money tied up, I would want to try to get enough information that I didn't have to reengineer everything to be able to get the ride functioning.