Will Hercules not being there still bring you back to Dorney?
Lord Gonchar said:
To me the attraction is not as obvious. Many enthusiasts dig Knoebels and I liked it too, but my current Dorney visit to Knoebels visit ratio stands at 36 to 1.
Thats about the exact opposite of me. How far are you from Dorney compared to Knoebels. I'm 68 miles from Dorney vs. 12 from Knoebels and Hershey is around 55. I may go to Knoebels twice a week Hershey twice a month and Dorney once a month in a good summer. It all depends on what I'm in the mood to ride.
To me I'm prefectly happy at Knoebels riding the bumper cars, Flyers, Haunted Mansion, Carousel, and Phoenix and Twister. I can do that all day. Thats just me though.
coasterdude318 said:
How can you prove an opinion?
Proof was the wrong wording - 'back it up'.
We finally weaseled it out of you though. That last post I can appreciate.
The bottom line is I never met someone with opinions on two parks that so represented exactly the opposite of what I feel. Literally, if you said it was black, I'd probably call it white and vice versa.
In fact I see SFGAdv as the quintessential, large corporate park. Almost everything you accuse CF of doing with Dorney is what I see at SFGAdv (except Dorney's flat rides actaully run) - the only difference is the whole tree thing.
The other thing that gets me is a clear, deep rooted hatred of Dorney. Like you really despise the place. I find that odd. Even as much as I don't care for SFGAdv, I still don't hate it. I'd rather be there than in surgery and I hope the park continues to grow and improve, but you seem like you'd like to see Dorney face a wrecking ball. That's weird to me to have what seems like actual hostility or hatred for a place.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. This will never go anywhere. Dorney is one of my favorite parks and SFGAdv very near the bottom. This can only go in circles from here and I'll never be able to convince you that you enjoy the inferior park.
coasterpunk said:Thats about the exact opposite of me. How far are you from Dorney compared to Knoebels. I'm 68 miles from Dorney vs. 12 from Knoebels and Hershey is around 55.
I was less than 5 miles from Dorney. It was about 70 to Knoebels. Just under 100, I believe, to SFGAdv and 65 to Hershey. (it was roughly an hour to all three and a few minutes to Dorney)
In the 22 months I lived there I hit Dorney 36 times, SFGAdv 3 (or 4?) times and Knoebels and Hershey once each.
For comparison in that same time frame I spent 6 days over 3 visits at Cedar Point (7 hr drive), 2 at Kennywood both 2002 and 2003 (4 hrs), 2 at SFOG 2002 & 2003(12 hr drive with kids), 4 days at USF/IOA (16 hrs) - all parks that I had visited previously
Again, that's not to dis the other parks. It's just that with Dorney literally down the road, I never felt the need to get to those other parks much. While they all have good and bad rides, none had anything that I just had to ride. Dorney was just as good. The main reason we even hit SFGAdv multiple times was:
A: SF season passes (not even from GAdv)
B: It was so crowded and we were so generally disappointed with the park the first time we visited that we left without riding many coasters. I returned the second time to finish up the credit whoring.
C: Superman's opening day. Only an hour away, I had to check it out. I haven't ridden it since. But I did drive that 12 hours to sample SFOG's again (and mindbender, which I missed the first time around)
Basically Dorney offered me everything the other three parks did. My single favortie coaster out of the lineups at those 4 parks is Talon. Second favorite? Steel Force-less. Followed by Medusa then Twister/Phoenix/Thunderhawk all ranking next to each other in that order. So for simple day trips it was no contest - 3 of my 6 favorite coasters from those 4 parks were at Dorney. None of the other parks offered anything made me feel the need to return vs what was in my backyard.
*** Edited 1/28/2004 8:26:16 AM UTC by Lord Gonchar***
coasterdude318 said:You're quick to point out SFGAdv's proximity to NYC and Philadelphia, forgetting that Dorney is about equally close (okay, it's further from Phily, but actually a tad closer to NYC). Yet Dorney gets less than half the attendance of SFGAdv. Why do you think that is?
That's easy. Free thinking people go to Dorney, while the mindless masses that have the ridiculous amounts of advertising and buy-one-get-one tickets crammed down their throats go to SFGAdv, because it's "so easy".
It's just like AOL. They are by far not the best ISP, but since they are such a marketing giant, people are brainwashed to believe that AOL is not just the best, but in many cases, they believe that it is the only option.
Antuan said:
Awwww, he is getting murred!!! Well congratulations bwoy!!! Can I have your lil' black book? :-)
Why? Do you want a list of women to AVOID?!?
;) jeremy
zacharyt.shutterfly.com
PlaceHolder for Castor & Pollux
Lord Gonchar said:
Why is it everyone rants and raves about Knoebels but Dorney gets mixed reviews at best. It seems out of place - especially in the context of this thread which seems to be "what does the coaster lineup offer?"Knoebels has two outstanding woodies, the lackluster Whirlwind and a kiddie coaster in HSTC
Dorney has Thunderhawk (a great woodie), One of the better (best?) B&M Inverts, a solid hyper in Steel Force, Schwarzkopf fun with Laser and rounds it out with family coasters (Woodstock, Dragon, Wild Mouse) and a kiddie coaster.
As much as it may seem like blasphemy, that's a no brainer - Dorney can compete in quality but wins with bonus points in variety.
Okay, I've never been to Knoebels, but I've heard enough people rave about it that I feel like I know what their mind set is.
It is generally regarded that Phoenix and Twister are above average woodies. Using the "Hawker" poll results 6/172 and 33/172 respectively. Although you call T-hawk "great", it is generally considered more middling than the other two woodies (77/172).
Now, even though Talon (32/275) could arguably be called the "best" B&M invert, is that really as strong of an attraction as one of the best woodies? I say this only because even the "worst" B&M invert, Great Bear, ranks a very respectable 57/275. Point being, a good B&M invert is *not* hard to find. Similarly, while Steel Force could be considered a fine ride in its own right (33/275), it's rather far down the list in terms of hypers.
Look at it like this, SFA and SFNE are about the same in most respects, including crappy service. However, you will see people (on boards such as this one) talk incessently about how "You need to get to SFNE", but it's okay to skip SFA. Why? Because the NE-S:ROS is considered to be one of the best coasters in the world. Sure the SFA-S:ROS is a good ride, but it isnt (supposedly) the experience that NE's is. Now SFA should win out on variety, but the percived quality of NE's S:ROS is a wildcard. I think that is analogus to Knoebels and Dorney.
Of course I *still* say screw them both and go to Hershey ;)
lata, jeremy
zacharyt.shutterfly.com
PlaceHolder for Castor & Pollux
You said it yourself why Great Adventure has more trees... it's built in the middle of the forest! Dorney is not. However, you make Dorney sound like a vast wasteland of metal and concrete, which it is not. Like Lord Gonchar has been saying, the park has been doing lots of landscaping the past few years... trees do not grow big and mature overnight. Here's my support:
Young trees on the lower midway
More growing trees
Looking from Camp Snoopy
Looking down the stream, lined with young trees
In Front of Zephyr
More for thought, compare these photos of Woodstock Express. The first photo was taken opening day 2003, and the rest were taken late August 2003. See? Things grow.
And lastly, you say the landscaping is better at GAdv? Let's compare Superman and Medusa to Talon
You don't have to like Dorney, but drop the argument about trees. *** Edited 1/28/2004 3:39:26 PM UTC by J2S***
J2S said:
And lastly, you say the landscaping is better at GAdv? Let's compare Superman and Medusa to Talon
hehe, great pictures! you da man. I too would have made that point by posting similar pictures but i simply didnt have the energy too, thanx for making my point for me though. like i said , u da man ;)
Dante, who also agrees that we should drop the whole tree thing. *** Edited 1/28/2004 5:26:14 PM UTC by DorneyDante***
I had a miserable time. Absolutey miserable. I honestly enjoyed my several rides on Steel Force, but it is easily my least favorite of all the hyper's I've ridden, Timberhawk was a big let down. I was expecting something skippy and fun like CP's Blue Streak, which I adore, and I was bored to tears on both my rides. Hercules was Hercules. Talon was fun, but probably my least favorite B&M invert. Laser was ok, but nothing to write home about.
Above and beyond, though, I just didn't want to be there. Horrible music everywhere, horrible atmosphere, nothing that delighted me, surprised me, made me happy, nothing, in between rides. I had a wonderful day before at Knoebles, I had a wonderful meal afterwards with my friends, and none of this had anything to do with some sort of negative predisposition to the park. I'll go back in 2005 for the new ride, grab a couple on Steel Force and Talon, and probably get the hell out as fast as possible to get me to the pure heavens I consider Hershey and Knoebels to be. I was ready to leave Dorney in 4 hours and I probably could have spent 2 days at Knoebels. Oh yeah, I really like SFGAdv, too. As I see it, Dorney is a park with no heart, no soul, and nothing to bring me back unless it drasitcally changes. I'm not a negative person when it comes to parks, there are only a handful in this world that I genuinely dislike. A very very small handful, and anybody that knows me knows that I can have fun just about anywhere.
So, what's the lesson of the story? It was fun to write this tirade about how much I really don't like Dorney, but defending, or attacking Dorney tooth and nail based on completely subjective opinion (or a few selectively chosen pictures displaying a very small portion's of a park's landscaping) isn't going to go anywhere. We all have opinions, and they're nice to discuss, but there comes a point when you might as well grab the ruler, unzip your fly, and settle it right there. Because that's all it amounts to.
Now everybody hit the penguin and git some of this out of our systems.
http://laget.kicks-ass.net/pingvin/pingu3.php
Feel better now?
Oh yeah, did I mention I really dislike Dorney? :) *** Edited 1/29/2004 2:20:05 AM UTC by matt.***
Lord Gonchar said:
The other thing that gets me is a clear, deep rooted hatred of Dorney. Like you really despise the place. I find that odd... That's weird to me to have what seems like actual hostility or hatred for a place.
Well, I think you just mistake my writing style in this thread and an actual hatred. I don't hate Dorney. I just think it's a really, really overrated park. Aside from Talon and Laser, the park has nothing (IMO, of course) to offer. And for a corporate park with corporate funding behind it, I think it's basically one large eyesore (again, middle section excepted). I admit that I enjoy ripping the park to shreds because I think it's poorly operated...but I don't hate it.
geneticfreak said:
That's easy. Free thinking people go to Dorney, while the mindless masses that have the ridiculous amounts of advertising and buy-one-get-one tickets crammed down their throats go to SFGAdv, because it's "so easy".
Oh please. Dorney doesn't have marketing people behind it? You act as if Dorney is still the little, traditional, privately-owned park it once was struggling against the big, bad Corporate giant (Six Flags). That's just not the case. SFGAdv charges $45.99 for a day at the park. Dorney charges $35.75 and usually less. And you're going to tell me that people go to SFGAdv because it saves them money???
j2s said:And lastly, you say the landscaping is better at GAdv? Let's compare Superman and Medusa to Talon. You don't have to like Dorney, but drop the argument about trees.
Well, I'll be the first to admit that GAdv isn't a perfect park (I specifically cited the Boardwalk as a problem area). But Medusa is surrounded by trees (not concrete, like the B&M at Dorney). Dorney definitely did some good landscaping work around Talon, but it's not the rides I have a problem with. It's landscaping and setting around paths, where it's most needed. That's where Dorney is sorely lacking. There's a reason the tree argument is so common when it comes to Dorney. It's a real problem, and small, young trees with few leaves don't do the trick.
matt. said:As I see it, Dorney is a park with no heart, no soul, and nothing to bring me back unless it drasitcally changes.
And that's exactly it. That's exactly what I have been trying to say, just put in a much more consise matter. Dorney is just sterile. Even those pictures j2s posted (especially the first) grates on my nerves. It's all so organized, so symmetrical, so whitewashed, and so thoughtless. It's so planned, so attempted-Utopian and perfect, that it ends up ugly. It's so sterile. That's what it means to not have any atmoshpere, and it's not a good thing.
-Nate
That's why this seems so one sided at this point. You're not going to find very many people (if any) with that kind of approach towards SFGAdv (or any park) no matter how little joy they derived from their visit. The best you're going to get in return is Dorney lovers supporting and pointing out the finer points of Dorney Park.
I still don't get the tree thing, but if it makes you feel better...
I just think it's a really, really overrated park... the park has nothing (IMO, of course) to offer. And for a corporate park with corporate funding behind it, I think it's basically one large eyesore... I admit that I enjoy ripping the park to shreds because I think it's poorly operated...but I don't hate it.
And that pretty much sums up my feelings on SFGAdv - except for the "enjoy ripping it apart" thing. That's just kind of...well, weird.
But I will give you the fact that SFGAdv has a lot of trees, so I guess the park has that going for it.
I had a bad time at Dorney. I disliked the park, on the whole. At the same time, its an amusement park. I'd still rather be there than say....the western civ class I'm about to go to.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
coasterdude318 said:
I don't hate Dorney. I just think it's a really, really overrated park.
Truthfully speaking, I don't think that Dorney is EVER overrated. Everyone seems to bash this place.
If I may interject a few thoughts, I promise to try and keep it short:
Dorney doesn't rank very high on my list of favorite parks. It falls in a category with a bunch of other parks that I like but do not love. That being said, I feel that the park has a heck of a lot to offer. As a modern-day version of the park that it once was (such as Kennywood and Lake Compunce), it is a complete failure... but as a modern-day theme park, it is fairly good.
A lot has been made of the trees/lack of trees issue, and I can't see why. Sure, there are expanses of concrete- I think that Dorney's entrance area is amongst the most sterile in the industry- but there are also many beautiful spots in the park. The path that goes underneath Thunderhawk (the original trolley path, if I recall) features some gorgeous old trees that make that area feel very secluded and peaceful. The area around the path the goes up the hill and connects the newer area of the park with the older area also has some nice trees. Every park has areas with trees and areas with no trees... to fault Dorney for that isn't fair, as its really no different from any SF, Paramount or Disney park.
coasterdude318 said:
I just think it's a really, really overrated park. Aside from Talon and Laser, the park has nothing (IMO, of course) to offer.
Why don't you just buy a T-shirt that says, "LOOOOOOOPIEESS!!" I mean, seriously. Tell the truth. You only eat Cheerios, Fruit Loops and bagels for breakfast, work at a tire shop for a living and if they had a ride that did nothing more than stand you on your head for ten minutes, you'd be the first in line. Go on, admit it.
Nothing wrong with being a LoopaDork. IS there anyone who doesn't know I'm a AquaDork? Certainly not any of VF's Lifeguard Staff who not only know me as the Raging Rapids Moron, but perhaps the only person in park history to fall off a tube, chase it and climb back on. Don't try that at home, kids!
SFGadv has more loopies and you like loopies. Loopies give you that goofy, faraway look that Tony gets on MF or Kara gets on ST or I get when kicking off a RR wall into yet another 360 like a friggin idiot. Get in touch with your Inner Dork.
And for a corporate park with corporate funding behind it, I think it's basically one large eyesore (again, middle section excepted).
I actually agree with you here...especially in a region loaded with parks with living, breathing souls to them. I visited DP the day after LC and you have no clue how sterile and joyless it felt in comparison. In a park that didn't have much theme or personality to begin with (VF/CP), the 50s stuff is tolerable to welcome. At DP, it made me flat-out nauseous. Worse yet, you could see patches of park that once had a soul; you know somebody killed it off. But on the other hand, they also had a big ol' wavepool, lots of slides and plentiful of excuses to fall on my backside--so I forgot alla that.
Do you think you could admit that you had so many goofy-happy SFGadv loopies you forgot it was still a corporate park? I mean c'mon.
-CO
*** Edited 1/29/2004 3:41:42 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
CoastaPlaya said:
Is there anyone who doesn't know I'm a AquaDork?
Ack, now I have this image of Playa in tights. Oh, wait, right, Minivan of Justice, that image has been with us for a long time already.
Would that be the Silver Age version with the giant seahorse, or the modern hook-hand version?
Personally I like Dorney. It's not my favorite park (not even my favorite PA park), but it's a fun place.
--Greg
"You seem healthy. So much for voodoo."
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