Will Hercules not being there still bring you back to Dorney?
Hershey has some awsome wood Lightning Racer, the mixed reviews of the Wildcat (it seems to be a love/hate thing with most) and the Comet which is pretty tame. Thunderhawk is great but I'd sooner be on the GCII's. Hershey is adding the Rocket so their line up of steel is improving but just don't have the thrills compared to Dorneys.
Then theres Knoebels. Two awsome wood coasters, a crazy kiddie coaster and a lame corkscrew. Their prices are cheaper for food and I think better quality then Dorney and Hershey. Not to mention the free admission and entertainment.
I think Knoebels gets the rave reviews since they take great care of their woodies and you can spend as little or as much as you want at the park. Basicly at Hershey and Dorney you are spending between $30- $40 before you can hit your first ride or see a show. Not to mention it's "Traditional" feel.
Mamoosh said:
Unique would be an understatment. Look for a few firsts when this sucker is announced.
Well it doesn't seem at this point to be size or length or anything similar, so what else could be a first?
Hmmmm....
Quite interesting.
I really don't see how roller coaster enthusiests can hate a ride so much as to love its removal. I don't think there is a single coaster I hate. I don't prefer kiddie coasters and tiny wood, but I don't hate anything enough to have it torn down. A roller coaster like The black widow at the old riverside or viper at sfgadv are the type of coasters that I wouldn't really miss. But a nice big woodie like that is something I would like to remain at the park even if it wasn't great. Hell, I haven't even been to the park yet but I will notice something missing when I do eventually get there from all the photos and videos I have seen. I think that is the true pain, noticing that a huge woddie is missing, an empty lot, just empty. I know that with the new B&M it will be the home of a nice coaster, but for this coming season, all I can envision about that park and a trip there would be a feeling that a piece of the park is missing.
/\-AMEN! Listen I hate to see any ride torn down because I believe that with some true TLC a ride can be great but I also can't blame the park for doing what its doing. Its a business and if the ride isn't drawing in the crowds then its useless to them. Hey at least Dorney is tearing it down and building something else.
You know they could have just torn it down and put up a restaurant or nothing for that matter. I don't like it but I understand it. Fact is life will go on! I'm losing one of my favorie rides this year also (Orient Express) but I'm not getting a new B&M in its place. But is it going to stop me from going to the park? No! they still have other good rides and that means I will be there! Now everyone lets hold hands and cry together as we send off the spirits of our lost friends Herculse & Orient Express! *snif snif* ;)
(begin singing old spiritual)
Dorney's atmosphere wins points over SFGAd? *What* atmosphere? Endless expanses of patented Cedar Fair White Concrete? ;)
From what I could tell, Dorney probably had lots of atmosphere before, but ever since I've been visiting (1998), I don't think I'd count "atmosphere" as a point to Dorney. There just really isn't any. :-\
Oh, and about the floorless, unless Moosh is counting "first flatspin before a cobra roll ever!" as a first, this coaster (as far as I know) doesn't have any worlds firsts.
First coaster with five trenches? LOL. First coaster to NOT go down the side of the hill that Hercules sat on, maybe? ;)
As little atmosphere as Dorney has, I find even less at GAdv. I can go to Dorney and not really ride and still enjoy myself. (and have) I don't think I could do that at SFGAdv.
To me Dorney falls a bit flat on flat rides. :) A few times when I was there I world want to ride somthing other than coasters and find myself wandering aimlessly looking for a ride to go on (Especially down by Laser).
I must say Dorney is not the park it was 10 years ago. Old Dorney vs. New Dorney. I'll take the new one! Even though we lost the classic Lusse Bumper Cars, an Old Mill and the awsome Thunderhawk station. I guess they are a small price to pay for progress.
If Cedar Fair hadn't stepped in and bought Dorney I think we would probably just have a waterpark now if we were lucky.
I guess the real question is to define "atmosphere"
Surely it means more than plentiful trees.
Joe, who can't think of another park who played such wretched tunes
PS less white concrete. ;)
I'd take Nitro over Steel Force
Talon over Batman
Laser over GASM(GASM hurts like hell and Laser is smooth)
The Chiller I haven't ridden, but it looked amazing, and Medusa and Superman and Rolling Thunder definitely earn SFGadv some bonus points. So, I'd take GADV over Dorney any day, no matter how you slice the bread.
See, you've got it all wrong. If you didn't want Hercules to be dismantled, you should've been going to the park MORE often beforehand, and riding the hell out of Herc. Then, perhaps, park management might have said, "Geez... Herc is a maintenance headache, and the locals sure hate it, but boy is that ride popular! Let's tear down that Steel Force instead." So, really, it's your fault Hercules is gone.
;)
;)
-Mark
Never Has Gravity Been So Uplifting.
As far as Hercules is concerned, Hell yes I'm pissed that they removed a wood coaster only to replace it with metal. Instead of redesigning the ride into something great like Kennywood can do with Steel Phantom and Pippin, they putz around with it not fixing the real problem which was a terrible design and layout to begin with. Then they complain that the ride wasn't that popular and they couldn't justify spending any more money on it. How convenient is that?
This company does have a terrible track record with wood period. They don't care about the classic wooden rollercoaster and it shows. Ask yourself when the last time Cedar Fair built a wood coaster at one of their parks? How many metal rides do they have in the chain compared to wood? I had to wait 27 years for them to build another wood coaster at the Point after the Blue Streak. That is entirely too long, and look what they got for their effort. A wooden maintenance disaster thats lackluster at best.
People are so quick to slam Six Flags on this site. At least they aren't afraid to build new wooden coasters. Why do I like Knoebels so much. That should be obvious. Cedar Fair destroyed a perfectly good run out of the station and wooden lift hill for nothing. They could of completely built a new woodie out of an old one if they wanted to and they didn't. When will Cedar Fair build another wooden coaster? I wouldn't hold my breath.
Wood - anything else is an imitation
Wood seems to have had some large swings in popularity over the last 30 or so years in the eyes of park management. It seems like everyone appreciates the classic appeal, but then they're distracted by those shiny, brightly-painted metal rides. I blame adult ADD.
Both Blue Streak and Thunderhawk were giving better rides this year than I can remember in the past.
I'm not trying to imply anything, but if someday in the future, Cedar Point comes to a similar decision about MS, will we go through the same discussion?
SFGAdv is one of the nicest parks I've ever been to, period. It's well operated. It's gorgeous. The coaster selection rocks, save for the fact that it's missing a good wooden coaster. It's (normally) the most-attended seasonal theme park in the country for a reason. How many people do you think pass up Dorney for SFGAdv? It's clear which park is better.
Then there's Knoebels. Phoenix is one of the best wooden roller coasters in existence, period. I'm not a huge Twister fan, but many are, and it is certainly well-maintained. Then there are attractions you can't find anywhere else (like the Haunted Mansion) and a nicely wooded setting (if you like shade, this is your park). Asking why people go to Knoebels is like asking why people go to Holiday World. It's obvious.
And finally there's Dorney - two good loopers, a rough, boring, poorly-maintained, trimmed-to-death woodie and a handful of family coasters (Steel Forceless included). *Yawn*. Talon and Laser are great. The rest of the coasters suck. The park is just short of hellhole status atmosphere-wise. And it's not well-operated.
But hey, if you like rude employees, poorly-maintained rides, vast, treeless expanses of concrete, and family coasters, by all means go to Dorney.
-Nate
Even though I hate to see any coaster deconstructed, I have to say that I agree with the parks decision to replace it. It's just like RCT; if no one is rideing one of your rides, you demolish it and build another one in it's place. At least that's how I play the game.
I don't get this Knoebels love everyone displays. maybe I just expected some grass in the park instead of the parking lot. I just don't like all of the gravel. It is still fun, just "carnaval" fun. I must say they have GREAT wood and darkride though. I go once every few years.
Edit-I can never spell Knoebels right. *** Edited 1/28/2004 5:38:36 AM UTC by dexter***
coasterdude318 said:
SFGAdv is one of the nicest parks I've ever been to, period.
I'm sorry. Maybe this year you'll get to more parks.
I just had to ;)
Seriously though, opinions vary and while I disagree with yours I don't discount them as you seem to do with the Dorney supporter's.
Let me break it down, rebuttal style:
SFGAdv is one of the nicest parks I've ever been to, period. It's well operated. It's gorgeous.
Yeah, my daughter really dug the used band aid and hair weave she found in the little water area in the Looney Tunes section. True story.
I'm really, honest to God, curious what at SFGAdv could be considered 'gorgeous' with the possible exception of the waterfront. When I think gorgeous theme park Knoebels, Dorney and GAdv don't come to mind.
It's (normally) the most-attended seasonal theme park in the country for a reason.
Yeah, it's smack dab in between two of the largest metropolitan areas around - NYC and Philly. And it serves as their local park for the most part.
Then there's Knoebels. Phoenix is one of the best wooden roller coasters in existence, period. I'm not a huge Twister fan, but many are, and it is certainly well-maintained. Then there are attractions you can't find anywhere else (like the Haunted Mansion) and a nicely wooded setting (if you like shade, this is your park). Asking why people go to Knoebels is like asking why people go to Holiday World. It's obvious.
See this is where that opinions thing really comes in. I like Twister better than Phoenix (just a little). With the exception of the Haunted Mansion, I didn't really see any flats that aren't elsewhere. As for the trees, you really have a tree thing. You might feel more at home in some of country's fine national parks. Again, don't get me wrong, Knoebels is great and all but lets face it - it's a bunch of rides on a campground.
To me the attraction is not as obvious. Many enthusiasts dig Knoebels and I liked it too, but my current Dorney visit to Knoebels visit ratio stands at 36 to 1.
a handful of family coasters (Steel Forceless included). *Yawn*.
See I put SFGAdv's Nyquil...errr, Nitro in the exact same category. Harmless hyper. I think the two are way more similar than most people realize. One just has B&M attached to it.
But hey, if you like rude employees, poorly-maintained rides, vast, treeless expanses of concrete, and family coasters, by all means go to Dorney.
But see this is what you keep saying but never really back it up.
Rude Employees? Two years in a row we visited on Mother's day and each year my wife was wished "Happy Mother's Day" several times by park employees. That to me is spectacular customer service.
Vast treeless expanses of concrete? You keep saying it but never seem to be able to show these desolate, lifeless areas of the park. I already gave you more than a dozen pictures of the park showing how wrong that is in the other thread.
Family coasters? What park doesn't want to attract familes!? Each park has 4 coasters that would be classified as family or kiddie. Both have a tame hyper. Dorney got rid of their bad wood, while Rotting Lumber continues to...well, rot. Thunderhawk (I'm assuming this was the "overbraked" woodie) has exactly on trim on the final bunny hop before the end of the ride. Don't discount an entire ride because of one wasted bunny hop.
just short of hellhole status atmosphere-wise
Again, define atmosphere. I'm missing something there.
I think it's clear that for whatever reason you hate the park (as much as I really enjoy it), but your 'spin' and opinions without examples do nothing. Just because you say it doesn't make it true. Show us. I want to see the park without my rose colored glasses. Fill me with that inifinite wisdom. Make me see whay people drive by the park to go elsewhere. Don't just say things - show and explain them. I see lots of claims, but little proof.
coasterdude318 said:
The reason people choose SFGAdv and Knoebels over Dorney is so obvious it's not even funny.SFGAdv is one of the nicest parks I've ever been to, period. It's well operated. It's gorgeous. The coaster selection rocks, save for the fact that it's missing a good wooden coaster. It's (normally) the most-attended seasonal theme park in the country for a reason. How many people do you think pass up Dorney for SFGAdv? It's clear which park is better.
Then there's Knoebels. Phoenix is one of the best wooden roller coasters in existence, period. I'm not a huge Twister fan, but many are, and it is certainly well-maintained. Then there are attractions you can't find anywhere else (like the Haunted Mansion) and a nicely wooded setting (if you like shade, this is your park). Asking why people go to Knoebels is like asking why people go to Holiday World. It's obvious.
And finally there's Dorney - two good loopers, a rough, boring, poorly-maintained, trimmed-to-death woodie and a handful of family coasters (Steel Forceless included). *Yawn*. Talon and Laser are great. The rest of the coasters suck. The park is just short of hellhole status atmosphere-wise. And it's not well-operated.
But hey, if you like rude employees, poorly-maintained rides, vast, treeless expanses of concrete, and family coasters, by all means go to Dorney.
-Nate
O DAYUM! That one really hurt. Remove the stinger s-l-o-w-l-y. I find it hard to really credit anything you have commented on because like Gonch just said your really not showing any proof. All I can say is that I disagree with some of your remarks, tis all.
I'll humor you anyway and respond. For the record, I've been to close to 40 parks and ridden nearly 200 coasters. Dorney was the 23rd park I visited, Knoebels the 24th, and SFGAdv was 31st.
On my two visits, SFGAdv was clean, the park was extremely well-landscaped, and the theming complimented the park well. The incident you described with your daughter could easily happen anywhere, especially in a kiddie play area. I don't think any parks clean water play areas during operating hours. What impressed me most about SFGAdv was that it's literally built in a large, mature forest. The view from Nitro is breathtaking; it's the best view from a coaster I've ever seen. Whereas Dorney is all concrete thinly bordered by extremely young, nearly bare trees SFGAdv has gigantic trees growing in the center of pathways. I mean, excluding the Boardwalk area, compare this shot to the aerial ones of Dorney. There's no comparison. Take a look at the entrance to Medusa. How about this one? This? From your own site, compare the SFGAdv entrance plaza to Dorney's. The Lakefront is gorgeous. Frontier Adventures is gorgeous. The Old Country is gorgeous. Even Mainstreet and Fantasy Forest are great. The only ugly area of the park is the Boardwalk, which is surprisingly Dorney-like in its overuse of pavement and lack of landscaping. But hey, I define gorgeous by the use of landscaping, water, and trees and not concrete.
You're quick to point out SFGAdv's proximity to NYC and Philadelphia, forgetting that Dorney is about equally close (okay, it's further from Phily, but actually a tad closer to NYC). Yet Dorney gets less than half the attendance of SFGAdv. Why do you think that is?
I enjoy Knoebels, but do not have the love affair with it going on that some enthusiasts do. However, I'd rather spend a day at Knoebels than a week at Dorney. For starters, there are two of the best maintained wooden coasters in the country (not THE best maintained, but close). As for unique rides, Downdraft and Power Surge (if you like those kinds of things) are not too common in parks. Then there's loads of older, more classic rides still operating (Roll-o-Plane, flyers, carousel w/ ring, a well-run whip, and the skooters), none of which Dorney or SFGAdv have. Sure, Knoebels isn't the prettiest of parks, but it's charming in a rustic sort of way. I don't think anyone would rather have it all paved over in concrete (in other words, Dorney).
As for "famly hypercoasters", Steel Force fits that definition perfectly. Nitro isn't great - the airtime is pretty lame and the positive forces are far between - but it's still *far* better than Steel Forceless. On my 2003 steel coaster poll, I rated Nitro at 24, and Steel Bore-ce at 41 (2nd lowest-rated hyper after Magnum). The poll seemed to agree with their respective placement, with Nitro at #5 and Steel Force at #33.
Please see the other thread for the treeless pictures of Dorney.
Family coasters are fine, but when they make up the majority of your coaster selection (unintentionally) then I think there's a problem. Especially if you're trying to compete with SFGAdv (which Dorney clearly does poorly).
Thunderhawk sucks. It's been reprofiled so many times (and trimmed) that it has no life left into it. Throw in your Cedar-Fair-rough ride and it's worse than Rolling Thunder in my book. For the record, I ranked Rolling Thunder at #33 on my list and Thunderhawk at #45.
Again, see the other thread for atmosphere.
-Nate
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