Both of them know I'm a huge fan of MiA and probably would be of WoF were I to actually visit. Many regulars also know I like SFGAM--hate standing in line, but like the park quite a bit. CBaby took on her first spin-and-spue there, her first adult coaster (Whizzer) and in the early 90s I wouldn't even bother visiting CP cuz SFGAM was better IMHO.
If you ever read threads I'm in, I rarely come out swinging on the first response. Behind the scenes, you might be surprised to find folks emailing links me to thread X or Y with some note to the effect of "Git 'em! Ooooh!" but I don't get involved.
Back on topic, tho--have you ever been on an Invertigo? For years, any major cap expenditure short of a B&M invert ticked me off...but these things are just deliver awesome rides, take up little space and are relatively inexpensive. Capacity? Well, that's the weak point--a glaring weak point--but if CP and SFGAM can make do with shuttles, I don't see why VF can't make do with one of these.
-'Playa
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
CoastaPlaya said:
Uhhhh, nobody claimed it was any more cutting-edge than anything else in the '70s when Arrow was cool.
I know silly head, but I was just stating that your particular Corkscrew is the standard model version with the vertical loop and then two corkscrews into a helix finale, that's all. Not a slam or anything on it, just point out that it's a cookie cutter.
As for SV killing an invert: Doubt it. Small ride with short track = small maintenance costs.
Unfortunately I think the LIMs might prove more of a mainteance headache than the track would. But that's besides the point. What I was getting out is space to put a large inverted. Where they placed SV was a prime spot to put a large inverted. They blew that chance when they put it in. I'm not familiar with the park's flood plane issue enough to know where it floods and where it doesn't, but I'm sure that back by Excalibur and Thunder River Canyon is in the flood plane, so I don't think they would want to build there. The only other spot I could think of is where the car ride is - are they willing to part with that?
Personally, I'd be tickled pink with an Invertigo and a wavepool for the next 5-6 years.
I think a wave pool and a water activity tree house would be a great addition to VF's water park. Both KBF, DP and WOF have received a water play house here lately, maybe VF will get one next year?!?! As for an invertigo, I wouldn't wish one of those on anyone. PKI's is the only one that I have been on that is tolerable, and that's only because of the great mainetance team they have there.
I'll let you get back to your war with those other people, that I could care less about what the heck they are ranting about.
-ciao
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SW:):)SH
midwestinfoguide.com
I remember! LMAO! Dude, where's my cigarettes, hair gel, and wire-frame glasses. ;)
Later,
EV
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Remember that if you're one in a million, that means that there are 5000 other people on Earth just like you.
I agree that a wavepool would be a great addition to Valleyfair, as well as some sort of interactive play area. Those who have been to the waterpark know it's small and cramped, and there's really no room for new additions. The only logical place I could see adding onto the waterpark would be if they completely ripped out the access road between Excalibur and the waterpark and built there. Honestly, I don't think it needs to be there anyway (why not route it around the parking long where people don't need to see it?). Removal of the road would free up a nice chunk of land, and eliminate that ugly tunnel heading to Excalibur. Swoosh can insult VF's waterpark all he wants, but at least VF's is *free*. I think that's argument enough for it to be smaller than others, but as Playa pointed out, the slides that are there are certainly quality.
Secondly, you cannot take a park's word for capacity. There's no way SV gets 950, no way Power Tower gets 1200, and no way Mad Mouse gets 1000. It can't happen. Joe did a good job pointing out why SV can't happen. Power Tower can *maybe* get 1000 if the crew rocks and every seat is filled (again, one minute+ ride cycle, one minute loading). And even Arrow claims just 700pph on their own site for Mad Mouse. All that said, I agree that Steel Venom is a much better fit for a park like VF than a park like SFGAm. I think SF really thought they could get away with two shuttles in one year (thus theoretically increasing capacity to that of a normal coaster) but it doesn't work that way, and not just because DV never operates. It wasn't one of their best decisions, but I'm still thankful for those two rides. Hopefully these impulses will keep out of the larger parks in the future, as they just don't fit there. And what's this bashing of the SFGAm crews? The V2 crew blows through people as fast as any other impulse I've seen, and this includes Cedar Point.
Finally, it's time to call Swoosh on a couple of his VF slams. First, he states that "linejumping is a given in Minnesota." Please. If you choose to visit a park on a school day, then deal with it. That's what you get. Linejumping is everywhere at *every* park on school days. That's just what happens when you fill a park with kids. Secondly, I don't know where you rode "at least three" other rides identical to VF's Corkscrew, but I suspect you only dreamed that. Valleyfair's Corkscrew is *not* a production model. Even RCDB lists it as a custom installation. I certainly have never seen an identical ride.
-Nate
As for this topic, I think that the smartest addition to VF would be a Talon clone. It would save a good amount of money to use a proven, existing design (much like they did with Steel Venom). Besides, nearly all of VF's patrons will never set foot in Dorney Park.
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Rich Genthner / PTC99
Swoosh: So what Invertigos have you been on that were headbangers? No other Vekoma models count here...
-'Playa
(who sez: In IMAX, you can see all the Matrix CG)
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
-Nate
Here, I prided myself on being a great big A-hole and these two guys show me up (I've been in arguments with both of them before, so it's nice to be on the observing end of things). Come to think of it, I'd probably enjoy a day at the park with them - that is, if I didn't get thrown out for fistfighting in line....
"(who sez: In IMAX, you can see all the Matrix CG)"
Playa, Did you see it at the Zoo? I was there for the 7:00 on Friday. Your right about all of the CGI being exposed, but it's still a great show.
My apologies to everyone for getting off topic.
Ok first I do realize how foolish it was to go on a "school day," but I wanted to go the park then and well that's how my days off fell. Besides it wasn't too bad - it seems that they were more interested in showing off for each other as opposed to riding. As for the particular line-jumping, perhaps it was just abad day - but you have to realize I have only been to VF that once and the only thing I have to compare to is Missouri's parks on school days - which is not nearly as bad.
As for Corkscrew's layout, I am fully aware of it being a "custom design," but to not rehash what we already stated - Arrow wasn't really up on being "innovative" at this particular time of their existenance and, to put it bluntly, one or two curve differences doesn't stop it from being what it is. As for the other two - one is gone and the other is CP's.
To answer CPlaya's question about Vertigos. I have only ridden PKI's (not too many in the Midwest) and I was basically stating my strong dislike for anything Vekoma (which is only second to Miler coasters).
I think I addressed everyone, if I missed someone just jump up and down - making a fool of yourself.
C'Playa, would love to show you around WOF if you'd make the trip. C'Baby and C'Midget would love the park.
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SW:):)SH
midwestinfoguide.com
I'll stand by the fact that VF's Corkscrew is fairly different than others (while still agreeing that Arrow was never keen on new ride layouts/designs). Cedar Point's doesn't have a helix, and Valleyfair's doesn't feature the awful airtime hump that the Point's has. I don't know what other ride you're specifically referring to (though I'd be interested to know!) but I don't believe any other Arrow corkscrew has a straight drop off the lift, a vertical loop, two corkscrews, and a helix...at least, not as far as I can remember. And on that note, how different is the Orient Express really from other Arrow loopers? ;)
-Nate
*** This post was edited by coasterdude318 6/23/2003 2:36:41 AM ***
I don't see where this debate about the corkscrew is going anyway. The only reason it's different is that CP needed another block for three trains and VF doesn't. It's just not a big deal of a coaster.
-'Playa
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
Now to answer your question about the Orient Express, CPlaya pretty much hit the nail on the head. There is nothing like it, not even close.
As to the line jumping issue and the corkscrew, get over them please you bore me.
Now back the topic...
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SW:):)SH
midwestinfoguide.com
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SW:):)SH
midwestinfoguide.com
I'll agree on the topspin for next year. It sounds about right since all of the CF parks (minus Knott's) have gotten one and VF hasn't gotten a flat since Chaos.
-Nate
Next.
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SW:):)SH
midwestinfoguide.com
That having been said, I have my doubts about a TopSpin. Our area has a good arsenal of inverting spin-and-spues (Enterprise, Chaos, Looping Ship, Rotoshake) and I fail to see how a TopSpin would make a big impact. Of course, that's my own opinion.
I will say this tho--if they go for a spin and spue, it should be a tall one (max elevation 60-80 feet) and be placed where the Trabant sits now. Despite SV's placement, they need to beef up traffic flow through the games area--and a flat ride tall enough to be noticed behind the Wave would be just the thing. The Trabant can always be moved to the former Bayern Kurve site, where it will draw as many riders as it does right now.
-'Playa
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The CPlaya 100--6 days, 9 parks, 47 coasters, 2037 miles and a winner.....LoCoSuMo.
VF vs. WoF battles are best left to the pros--and the offseason. At least we're entertaining when we go at it!
Hear here! I agree.
As for why I think a topspin. VF needs another water ride and when I said "topspin" I was referring to a model like ours, with the interactive fountain underneath that soaks the passengers. However, a KBG Afterburner (or even a Huss Frisbee) would look good at the park as well.
In another OT: [rewritten, because I didn't like how the old post sounded] I have received word from a friend who works at the park, that there are now flags appearing in the area that was rumored to be the location of project'04. I haven't been down there to confirm or deny the rumors, so as of now I am taking this as a grain of salt.
However, IF this is true, then we can expect that ground work will start occuring in late July, early August, much like what happened when Mamba was built. People who live in the area know that our winters are not very cooperative with building projects and this early start would give them around 10 months to complete the project IF this proves to be true. More information later as it comes.
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SW:):)SH
midwestinfoguide.com
*** This post was edited by Swoosh 6/25/2003 11:03:45 AM ***
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