What are they (HW/SS) up to now? (Timberliners on Voyage)

a_hoffman50 said:

They want it to be more comfortable. Were guests commenting that it wasn't?

I would imagine they were. The general public is not used to riding the way we do.

So how exactly does the GP ride?? On their heads? :)

No. "Coaster people," like us, are able to kind of read the track and are able to brace and position our bodies ever so slightly so that we can be in a better position to take the force.

a_hoffman50 said:
I suggest taking off your gravy colored glasses and look at it from a general public point of view and it really makes sense.

LOL....I wonder how those compare to Gonch's rose colored glasses?! ;)

The article from the Courier Press states the cost to be $540,000, and that the old trains are going to another park.

Anyone know if the $540,000 cost reflects a "trade-in credit" for the old trains? The reason I ask is because $270,000 for a brand new train is much lower than I expected. Under $300,000 seems like a fantastic price point for Gravity Group.

Anyone know the cost of a new PTC train, or a new Millennium Flyer? I always thought they were closer to half a mill each.

I am guessing Holiday world is getting a deal for buying the first set because the design is still unproven not the a doubt it will work I have complete faith in the teams backing this change up both tgg and hw. And can anyone confrim the previous stament about no need to gease the track. Wood track is not perfect so the train still need play (by design} meaning it can still slide around slightly to follow changing track direction will they really not need to grease the track anymore and will that make it faster if they dont?

zeus said:
I am guessing Holiday world is getting a deal for buying the first set because the design is still unproven not the a doubt it will work I have complete faith in the teams backing this change up both tgg and hw. And can anyone confrim the previous stament about no need to gease the track. Wood track is not perfect so the train still need play (by design} meaning it can still slide around slightly to follow changing track direction will they really not need to grease the track anymore and will that make it faster if they dont?

The reason a wood coaster needs grease is so the road wheels can slide on the rail to help it turn. Most wood trains have ONE GUIDE WHEEL ON EACH wheel set and they DO NOT STEER. TL's have two guide wheels on each wheel set with a drag link connecting them. As the track turns, The wheels turn. No sliding needed.

The testing on Raven was done pre season. The PTC was squeeling like a banshee. The TL did not squeel at all. Granted they were testing four benches (Eight person car) Vs and full train. From what I hear the TL was a little slower speed off the drop but was still within a second of the PTC train. (Consider that the TL was several thousand pounds lighter and not broke in a bit).

I really don't consider the trains to be UNPROVEN. Unridden maybe but Unproven? They spent the day collecting data.

buckeye brad,

Granted the numbers are probably a little different due to inflation, but Legend's two PTC trains, station and ride control modifications were done prior to the 2002 season at a cost of $400,000.

If I remember correctly, Voyage's station is significantly longer than what was needed to accommodate the PTC's, I'm sure there will be some changes made to the loading area and gates but nothing as extensive as Legend. I wonder if Voyage's station was designed with this in mind.

~Rob

Also, when talking about the speed of the tests on Raven you have to keep in mind that those were pretty much bare train frames and sandbags. There was very little extra hardware and body to the train. I would guess the weight of those frames would be about 2/3 of what a complete 4-bench would be. So what speed was not present in those test runs will probably be gained, plus some if you include any other improvements since then that may have increased efficiency.

Fun said:

But my whole bone of contention here is that if these trains don't save or generate $540,000 for Holiday World, then there really is no point to this.

I think it's important to remember that GG and HW have a buddy-buddy relationship. I would be shocked if there weren't some sort of hidden incentives to HW for buying the trains. To sell Timberliners, they need to show what they can do. Where else would they go to try to show off their new product?

They may easily save 540K on maintenance over 10 years if these trains perform well. Plus, maybe HW gets some sort of kick back for any Timberliners GG sells in the next 5 years? This whole deal is about HW taking advantage of their great relationship with GG.

I applaud HW for sticking to its pattern of continuing to improve the rides they have while adding new ones rather than let them fall apart over time. Can you really say there is any greater value outside of the Orlando parks?

I forget who told me this. But, for some reason I was thinking it was while I was at an event. So I'm thinking it was either someone at GCI or Beech Bend who casually said that a Millennium Flyer was about $1M. Take that with a grain of salt.

I think they are just trying to find a reason to actually use the MCBR

DanLinden said:
I think they are just trying to find a reason to actually use the MCBR

LOL One thing about Voyage is, Yeah theres air and lots of different types of it too. But it actually is doing something ever second and a half of its course. You thought it screamed before? .............................. HOLY!

Pagoda Gift Shop said:

This whole deal is about HW taking advantage of their great relationship with GG.

I was with you (and may still be)....but I think the key here is to perceive the relationship as "mutually-beneficial". I'm fairly positive both HW and TGG see it that way... ;)

Well, I must say I am very interested by this announcement. While I think the Voyage is a great coaster, the second half of the ride just rattles me too much to enjoy the ride. These new trains look like it will help eliminate the problem.

I think Holiday World got those trains for a great price. At the same time Gravity Group got a great place to test their trains without needing to build a special facility just for testing.

If the $540,000 figure does not include the money HW will get for selling the three PTC trains, they may actually make money off this purchase. I'd estimate three new PTC trains for Voyage to cost approximately $2 Million. Surely they could sell them for at least $540,000.

I am most interested in the "steering" ability. Is this going to lead to new track designs? Since less maintenance will be needed on the wood will this lead bigger parks into making large wooden coasters again? I also wonder if HW is going to use the audio capabilities, or even the magnetic brakes. What park will be the first to launch a wooden roller coaster?

First park to launch a wood coaster? That would be Kings Island. Ever ride the Beastie as it catapults out of the station? Also, Son of Beast was supposed to have a rudimentary launch mechanism on the mid-course brake because the brake was built lower than the top of the loop.

Seriously, though, if you want an idea of what kind of thing the Gravity Group trains can potentially do, go to Indiana Beach and ride the Lost Coaster of Superstition Mountain. I'm not sure you could do that with a 14-car Timberliner, but that ride has curves on it down to a minimum 6-foot radius, which is the standard to which the Splinter car was designed. The Splinter car is, as I understand it, nothing more than a Timberliner lead coach with the front seat turned backward.

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

^The Beast was originally supposed to 'launch' out of the station. Are the friction tires still there? Maybe they were supposed to push the trains out fast or something, I remember reading that in early Beast promo stuff.

Yes the push out wheels are still there and still used, SOBs are used only to start the train rolling but were meant to accellerate it if it was not moving fast enough to clear the loop. A friend of mine was on a SOB ride they stopped it midcourse for some reason. It made it, BARELY! and often in the morning it would hang on the final hill to the end brakes Anti Roll Backs

If you are not a Gravity Group Fan on Facebook become one! Korey is holding new timberliner pics at ransom in exchange for 1000 fans they have about 860 right now, so if anyone who is not a fan becomes one that would help. Hopefully the pics are of Voyages trains (which I am guessing they are). Paula says the trains won't be on site until next weekend so if they don't make a thousand fans we all have to wait 7 more days. :(