TTD waiting for parts

ophthodoc,

I think we're arguing two different points now. You're saying they're doing a great job of keeping a problematic ride open. In fact, I think it's a miracle the damn thing *ever* worked, to be completely honest. But what I am arguing is the fact that it *is* down a lot. I know they're trying their hardest to keep it open and that is commendable (not to mention they have to, or risk losing tons of guests because of it), but the fact remains, it *is* down a lot! That's what I'm saying.

And about creating a laundry list of problems for new rides, if you look at Intamin's history, you'll see that this was basically to be expected. Almost all the US Intamins their first year are very problematic. I don't think that means I have to like when a ride is down though, just because it's typical for Intamin, ya know?

Ah well, my two cents.

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Top Thrill Dragster -- The most intense, unbelievable, and spectacular fifteen seconds on any coaster, anywhere, ever.

The problem likely is Intamin, but Intamin is the only company currently looking to smash records and try new technology. I think CP totally expected this and realized from the begginning that there would be a lot of growing pains.

The uptime of Dragster is just as good or better then any of the newer record breaking designs we have seen in the last 5 years. Xcelerator was worse when it was 2 months old, X was not even open, the Vekoma Flying Dutchman had serious problems, S:TE was not open for the first year, same with the Chiller, don't even get me started with Deja Vu.

The reliability of Xcelerator, the Dutchman, S:TE, and the Chiller (not counting the total rebuild of Batman). Is now very high.

By this time next year we will be thinking just how silly this entire argument was.

So they told you Dragster won't be open until after you paid admission? Geez, might as well tell you in the parking lot!

Man..

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2002/2003
KWTM

CP Twister, please understand that my post did have a hint of sarcasm. I am going out on a limb, but anyone who posts on a site like Coasterbuzz has enough coaster intelligence to know that there isn't another 420' coaster.

You did say one thing that I would like to correct. MF did not have the smooth opening you wrote about in your post. I don't know if anyone went to CP in May of 2000 but most days the ride opened at noon after the engineers worked all morning. Also in it's early days it only had 1-train operation. The lines stretched down the Frontier Trail.

In the future I will try to refrain from making any more comments that would be "the dumbest comment ever heard on a board".

It saddens me to see the complaining about this, especially since we're the enthusiasts who would travel to these parks and theoretically the ones who know better. Rides using new or relatively recent technology will very likely have many unanticipated problems that can't be predicted with the usual engineering testing. Especially when you think about the sheer number of times these things are run over a long period of time.

What are some of the late or delayed rides during their early days and what are the causes? Almost all of them can be attributed to the mechanical needs - 1 train load must go through at regular intervals constantly for over 12 hours of operation per day every day for months on end. Weather is a big factor because you have to anticipate heat, cold, rain, snow (in some areas), and direct sunlight. Of the ones I can think of off the top of my head:

Superman: The Escape - Uses LSMs (a very new technology at the time). While the prototypes worked, it was tough to sustain the constant launches and braking. The power requirements were known ahead of time, but the investment in making sure enough constant power was available to the ride as needed is always a big engineering feat.

Mr. Freeze/Batman and Robin: The Chiller - Uses LIMs (different technology than LSMs but no less power hungry). It is understood now that the small prototypes used to design the magnets were not scaled up properly and the magnets ended up being quite a bit weaker than needed, so the rides were closed for that summer so that stronger magnets could be manufactured, tested, and installed for the consistent use of the rides.

Millennium Force - Most likely, the big problem was the elevator lift (this is speculation on my part). Elevator lifts work all teh time, but I've never seen one that had to be outdoors in the Lake Eerie weather (snow-very hot weather and rain) and for 12 hours a day during the May-October seasons was constantly running back and forth (since teh trains are launched as soon as hte dog comes back down and hooks into the train only to be told to lift the next train load when it gets back).

Air/Superman: Ultimate Flight and X-Flight - Different designers and different ways of doing things, but the main thing that hurt both is the novel "flying" position and getting people safely on and off constantly.

Hypersonic XLC - Uses compressed air to launch. The air compressors and launch mechanisms had to be designed to continuously keep workign during the operating day.

Xcelerator and Top Thrill Dragster - Uses hydraulics to launch.

All of these use technology in new ways that are untested at this scale and this kind of constant stress. Compare this to the old roller coaster design where you just have a motor with chain to pull the train and then let it go. We should be amazed that these things work as often and consistently as they do and give safe rides so often.

Anyone have any word on when and if it will open today?

Or even tomorrow?

I really need to know if it's up by Tuesday, because after exams we're going to head up but I dont know if the rest of my party wants to go up if its not open...may sound a lil weird to some of you....

Thanks

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"Love can sweep you off your feet and carry you along in a way you've never known before. But the ride always ends, and you end up feeling lonely and bitter. Wait. It's not love I'm describing. I'm thinking of a monorail" -Jack Handey

i'm not sure i understand all the complaining. cedar point has only been in daily operation for what four weeks now? i have been to calfirornia 3 times in the past year and still have yet to ride x or deja vu. i expected there to be some problems with ttd. and i expect to see them resoved soon. you should see them run it with 5 trains. it's an amzing site to see. i'm sure that when cedar points get the bugs ironed out of this ride it will be right up there with all the other cedar point rides as far as imprssive operations go. i don't think it's intamin, either. it seems that almost all developers that introduce new rides have problems. b7m had problems when medusa opened, vekoma still cant get deja vus to work, s7s has problems with hypersonic, and do we need to mantion arrow and x again? but at least the intamin and b7m rides do seem to get working even if it takes a little more time. i went to sfgam this year and suf was close most of the day. it didnt bother me. i like ttd. i like most other rides too, even if they do have problems at the start. i'd like to get on x at some point and see what all the fuss is about but i'm not holding my breathe with that one.

coastingohio: your best bet is to call the park right before you go.

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http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~bnoble/

I give CP credit for building it and trying to get this thing to work after such a rough winter and only a small scale in California. I haven't ridden it yet, but I'm not going to complain. Coasters break down, we have to accept it. As long as eventually I finally get a ride on it, that's all that matters to me. Sure it would be nice to get a ride on it the day it opens, but too many people are freaking out because it might be another 3 months or a year before they can get back to the point and ride it. Be happy it is there, you will ride it one day. There are many other great rides in the park. I'm glad some can make this a good situation and say, at least they got to ride MF because it was broke last time.

"Rides using new or relatively recent technology will very likely have many unanticipated problems," makes no sense whatsoever. You realize this, right?

...the rest of the argument seems, well, like it makes sense. Rides are designed to operate all day, in varied conditions, with as little trouble as possible.

They often don't. That's downtime. It's not an engineering mystery. It's poor work. It's a lack of sufficient testing, on site or at the factory.

"This ride is broken today and tomorrow because it has to run all day, y'know," is not a valid excuse.

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--Maddie--
"yes I am on the online street team"
Wha? Online. . .street. Online. . . street.

Wow, I can't imagine how some of you would handle a real problem like the death of a family member, a friend going off to war, a high-risk pregnancy. A ride is having problems. That's it. That is what all of this is about.

So, let's say the park was having parts delivered. If it is like any other business I have been involved with that part could come the day you expect it, the day before, the day after, or never.

If the park says, "TTD will be down all weekend" and then it opens late Saturday...people are going to b & m because they decided not to go but it opened anyway. If the park says, "TTD will open this weekend" and then it doesn't people are going to b & m. The park is screwed either way.

Maybe the park should just tear down the ride and stop building new, interesting rides. That would keep people from getting so upset.
*** This post was edited by wahoo skipper 6/9/2003 8:39:06 AM ***

TTD is/was having hydrolic issues. That's all we were told. At least the park said they haven't had the temperature issues Xcelerator has/d.

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CBClub member #30 and #364 (renewal)

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CP Twister said:

I think Cedar Fair should have done another smaller rocket coaster at a different park and worked more of the bugs out of this before going so big at its main park.

*** This post was edited by CP Twister 6/6/2003 10:56:46 PM ***

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Cedar Fair does have a ride that is that is ran with the same technology....its at Knott's Berry.

I think he meant another one besides Xcelerator...

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CBClub member #30 and #364 (renewal)

How many do you want them to build? I mean really...things that are made have issues... and that’s everything. You can only afford to build so many "test" models. The idea is there...give them time to make engineering changes. The fact is that no "testing" will ever get weather and every day use scenario 100% on and until the TTD is put under these conditions in a real life operating model...nothing will be able to get fixed properly for a no-hassle ride. So expect growing pains....is it a sad moment not to get to go on it....I would say yeah...but wouldn’t you want it to be over with now(by the end of the summer) then in five years after they put it under whatever tests you think they should have....THEN have down time still because of unforeseen problems with installment and weather issues.-Heck the thing was struck by Lightning the day before media day....who would of THOUGHT?

Give these engineers a brake they have to work it out as it comes...they are just human. They can’t think of EVERYTHING and they are not psychic and just know what will happen in real life operation.

I think the hydrolics motors lack of power, no ?

No, that would be a rollback - it tested successfully (at least from the outside) many times during Coastermania, there was just something wrong that no one could see (unless yellow did roll back and that's why it got moved to the transfer?)

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"You know we got a good thing goin and I don't wanna see it end" --Reel Big Fish
-- Brett

I love non-engineers or people NOT in a related field taking a stab at the roots of TTD's problems. To me, it's broke. Be running later. Cool, next coaster.

Teaching, Coaching........uh.......Beer!

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There's nothing like a woodie...

no need to be engineers for see the TTD lacks of power...

Hey Tart-opomme: And your expertise is in what field again? Along with your third post, what is your analysis about Dragster that suggests more power, hydrolics and defective parts? Because your last 3 posts are a bit, shall-ow I say, VAGUE?

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There's nothing like a woodie...
*** This post was edited by Woody 6/9/2003 2:06:51 PM ***