Son Of Beast to Re-open 2007

Well, if that's the case, Brian is right about having more potential energy ("stored" in the form of height) to offset the loss in kinetic energy (momentum lost due to a smaller drop).

If the lifthill is the same height, there SHOULDN'T be a risk of valleying at any subsequent uphill section.

Max. potential energy is usually at the highest point, at the top of the lift. Why "usually"? Some coasters have other means of propulsion... :)

Here's a trivia question. How many roller coasters have had their loops removed? (Obviously not counting coasters that are demolished or disassembled.) I can think of one other -- Steel Phantom, redesigned into Phantom's Revenge.

Drachen Fire had one of its loops removed about halfway thru its short life.

Both Great America parks *added* loops to their Arrow Corkscrews.

Ah, thanks gator... I didn't think about shortening the drop by raising the bottom, whic would indeed leave energy relatively unaffected... I was picturing chopping the 30 off the top, hence me comment.

My mistake... I misunderstod what you guys meant.

....I understood where you misunderstood... ;)

I can't think of ANY ride that's had it's lifthill lowered. But one that had it lift rraised, that I can think of...the original Mister Twister. The recreation at SFEG (or PARC-EG or whatever) was NOT as bad for me as I'd heard, but certainly is a pale imitation of what I gather from ALL accounts was THE crowning achievement in John Allen's storied history.

http://www.rcdb.com/id2102.htm

Did the Wild One at SFA have changes made to the lift hill at some point during its many reprofilings?

Rattler's lifthill was raised over the original design to get THE RECORD. The result was a shortened run off and a huge part of THE PROBLEM! This wasn't RCCA's fault either but the Park saying we are already this close, Why not take the record.

Chuck

Wild One operated for years without it's helix which was destroyed in a fire. I also think it had it's drop shortened by raising the bottom.

Chuck

My memory may be incorrect but didn't the lift height of Colossus at Magic Mountain get reduced slightly at the same time the double dip was eliminated?

I am not certain because I also recall they modified the speed of the lift chain so that it would slow down near the top of the lift.

One thing is certain, the speed on the first turnaround is so much slower now than it was originally.

Haven't posted for a while due to job demands but I've been keeping up with the boards day by day. Good to see most of old familiar characters are still here.

I've been working on an article on care and maintenance of wooden coasters, which has required me to interview quite a few people in quite a few parks, including several at Kings Island. Obviously, at Kings Island, Beast and Son of Beast were the focus.

None of these comments come from the Corporate Boardroom, so admittedly you can dismiss them as rumors among the rank and file employees. Nevertheless, those guys tend to know what their superiors are thinking. So, for whatever you might consider it's worth, this is what I have been told by several different guys :

l. Son of Beast was consuming more money, time, effort and meetings than all the other rides in the park combined. All the reasons already mentioned on this thread are correct : the loop required the heavy trains, which didn't fit the ride, which placed unreasonable stress on the whole structure, which accounted for the tracking problems, the rough ride, the bruises, etc., etc.
One of the targets of any major corporation is to reduce costs. Reducing this continuing maintenance drain became one of the top goals of management.

2. Every year, liability becomes more of an issue in the corporate world. Lawyers are quick to sue over any tiny incident, as evidenced by spilled hot coffee at McDonalds, a rough sidewalk at Yankee Stadium or physical contact with a cartoon character at Disney World. Decisions are made every day to reduce the risk of lawsuits, however frivolous. PKI officials were absolutely convinced they were eventually going to get sued by somebody who wrenched a back, sprained a neck, or bruised a rib on Son of Beast. They felt they had to eliminate this lawsuit waiting to happen.

3. The initial novelty of the loop has become a bit musty. People have been there, done that. The new trend is for these compact layouts with lots of laterals, under and overs, and, yes, helices. This year removing the loop, replacing the trains and smoothing out the existing layout may be the priorities, but there is discussion about redoing some of the layout to perhaps make this ride resemble Thunderhead or Kentucky Rumbler. That will take a longer time to design, though, so right now they just want to get the ride back in operation.

As far as I'm concerned, I had quit riding it because of the roughness. With the remodelling and new trains, I'll be eager to try it out again.

Happy New Year everybody. *** Edited 1/13/2007 7:19:50 PM UTC by Trekker Park***

...Resemble Thunderhead...

...Thunderhead runs Millenium Flyers :)

So would that make it a total of 3 credits from one coaster? One with the loop, one without the loop, and one with the thundehead-like-redesign? ;)

Sadly I don't have the "loop credit" so it would only be 2 for me ;)

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Charles Nungester said:
Raising the bottom, Such as they did with Screechin Eagle in 2002

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Chuck, I saw what they did to Screechin' Eagle. They raised the bottom of that drop only enough to stick a 4x4 under the rail so that they could maintain the gauge at the base of the drop instead of letting the rail sit right on the ground. That isn't exactly what you're talking about with Mean Streak or Rattler or Wild One.

Of course, the only reason Mean Streak didn't get the bottom of its first drop raised was because when they consulted John "Let's Raise the Bottom of the Drop" Pierce, the park wouldn't let him do that. Personally, I think the park made the right choice, but substituted the wrong "fix". It took nearly ten years, but they finally figured out that the solution was gauging ties, stiffener bents, steel reinforced stringers, and perhaps most important, surface lubrication. Funny how when they made the shrieking go away the ride got smoother...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

I just heard that sob will not open on time for opening day, and that ptc was contacted to build new trains for the ride but could not due to the time frame.

If ptc were to build new trains, does that mean that they are changing the track width?

They also mentiond that kings island may just end up retro fitting the current sob trains.

Track width will *undoubtedly* remain unchanged, the TRAINS have to be adjusted (NOT a minor feat by any means)...

Also, I think I recall seeing somewhere that Tom Rebbie wasn't going to be making the trains...too short of a deadline, too much work to make them special for Sonny (NOT your normal wood-coaster trains). And, as always, insurance probably plays a BIG role...

Since we *know* now that Sonny's not running MFlyers *or* PTCs....the retrofit of the Premiers certainly is beginning to look like the most-likely scenario...

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RideMan said:

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Charles Nungester said:
Raising the bottom, Such as they did with Screechin Eagle in 2002

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Chuck, I saw what they did to Screechin' Eagle. They raised the bottom of that drop only enough to stick a 4x4 under the rail so that they could maintain the gauge at the base of the drop instead of letting the rail sit right on the ground. That isn't exactly what you're talking about with Mean Streak or Rattler or Wild One.

Of course, the only reason Mean Streak didn't get the bottom of its first drop raised was because when they consulted John "Let's Raise the Bottom of the Drop" Pierce, the park wouldn't let him do that. Personally, I think the park made the right choice, but substituted the wrong "fix". It took nearly ten years, but they finally figured out that the solution was gauging ties, stiffener bents, steel reinforced stringers, and perhaps most important, surface lubrication. Funny how when they made the shrieking go away the ride got smoother...

--Dave Althoff, Jr.

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Actually Dave, They raised the bottom of the first drop on Screechin Eagle. 10ft.

Chuck

Is it really necessary to quote a two-paragraph post three entries up for a one-sentence reply?

Nothing huge, nothing surprising, but thought I'd pass it along anyway. Channel 2 news here in Dayton (OH) just announced that SOB wouldn't be ready for the April 21st opening. The only info. they gave thus far was over the ongoing construction where the loop was removed.

Like I said, nothing huge, nothing surprising, but just mainly wanted to pass it along if there was anybody possibly heading to the park for opening day/weekend with any hope of riding SOB.

^ How about "Bring your own train day" as an early-season promotion? You supply the coaster train, KI supplies the track! :)

I thought the promotion was going to be handing out cervical collars on the first day. :)

Hello all.Just signed up after discovering this site and from what I see it is a great site for info on coasters.
Now I am not an expert on coasters nor pretend to be.
I was reading the posts on the Son of Beast coaster and was trying to catch up on the details since the incident last year.
I did find info regarding the trains.As some are saying they believe that another manufacturer was going to build new trains for the coaster.However I did find(and I am not sure how reliable they are)that the trains were coming from the now demolished coaster Hurricane.
Now with the problems they have had I doubt they would use old trains and possibly have the same problems but just wanted to pass this info along.