shirtless in parks-how do you feel
Look at old photos of amusement parks with people riding roller coasters dressed in top hats and hoop skirts! And it wasn't that long ago when it was not socially acceptable for anybody over the age of 10 to wear shorts in public. Perhaps society just isn't ready for throngs of bare-chested men roaming the earth but how is that different from bare-legged men (or women) walking around?
I still agree that Mike131 is completely dillusional, though. He'll learn as he grows older when he sees the skin-cancer-free, non-wrinkled, and well preserved shirted majority still enjoying life in their old age while those who thought they were "living life the to fullest" find out that they're still alive at 60 and living life in a rocking chair covered in a shawl.
It might be a safety issue, but then again if you chose to take your shirt off and go on a ride shirtless then obviously you accept the potential risk that some bug might hit your bare chest. Thats whats so great about this country is people have the freedom to chose and they have the freedom to accept whatever consequences come as a result of their choices.
In a less law suit happy world then yes I would agree with you, but in todays society where the smallest thing will bring a law suit then I can understand the parks requiring people to wear shirts on coasters, just as a preventive measure.
And even if the parks would win the case, which is not a given considering how some cases have gone, it would still cost them money. Alot more than it would to just ask someone to put their shirt on.
I will say that when I worked at amusement parks, I would have to ask people to put their shirts on. I would always do it politely and tell them that it is the parks policy. And that is the crux of it, the fact that it is the policy of the park that you must wear shirts. If you are on their property and they want you to wear a shirt (for whatever reason, be it personal, or business) they have the right to ask you to put it on. If you don't like that, well you don't have much choice, that is the whole idea of freedom in this country.
Morté aka Matt, Ego sum nex
Dragon's Fire Design: http://www.dragonsfiredesign.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/mattdrake
I said I agreed with you earlier but even then it was more of a laid back whatever floats your boat do it type answer. After reading your rambling I have come to the conclusion that when you enter High School you really need to join debate.
Face it Theme Parks aren't the only places to ban shirtless people. Your not going to convince any of us that it is morally or socially acceptable.
Take it to the supreme court buddy you can do it.(and get laughed right out) If you ever came my house and disrpected my rules like you are the parks you would get kicked out also you going to sue me go for it. You going to make a post about it on Coasterbuzz or Buzzpoint.
It's their place of business and they make the rules they need no reason or excuse as to why it is, it just is. If you don't like it, to bad.
Yes there are other issues that take away from a parks Family Atmoshpere like swearing and excessive PDA. I have seen the Park Ranger at Worlds of Fun ask people to stop both things before. They are equal opportunist. You feel singled out about putting the shirt on because thats the only thing that you have been asked to do. Lets be honest thats the easiest thing to spot and notice.
Swearing lots of times is hard to tell who it came from when the park is crowded. Excessive PDA(groping, making out, fondling) is generally done real quick and/or in a somewhat secluded area and is harder to spot. Open to the general public still, but harder to spot from a distance.
God definately didn't invent deodorant but he did however cover up Adam and Eve with what would be their equivalent to clothes. So if you want to start talking God and religion that stops you dead in your tracks.
-Nate (Is it time for HW Nights yet?)
I still don't know what the big deal is here. The "No shirts, no shoes, no service" rule has been in effect for years now. Why would that change, or be expected to change?
I think that shirtless isn't such a big deal - I would have to say naked upper body on a coaster is probably not such a good idea after all for reasons of hygene, which is even more true for the rest of the body.
I know that in the U.S., you have this concept of "Nudity", that we don't even have a translation for in many European languages - but that surely doesn't make Europeans the immoral Sex-Maniacs some American movies such as "Europtrip" or "Hostel" make them out to be.
In fact, I sometimes think we have a more responsible attitude towards "sexuality" over here.
I think once you allow everyone to wear what they want, you'll find that most people don't even enjoy running around shirtless or naked most of the time.
There are enough rules on this planet, I don't think there needs to be a rule about wearing a shirt.
Oh, I didn't realize the park's general manager and corporate officers - you know, the people who actually have the power to make rules about dress codes - were the ones telling you to put it on. That makes all the difference.
They might as well be the ones who say it to me. When a park employee tells me to put a shirt on theyre basically retelling what the employer already said to them, so its just the same as if it came from their mouth.
I think it's hilarious that you actually answered the restaurant/movies/dentist/work question seriously. Talk about missing the point! I think you've made things abundantly more clear, though not necessarily in your favor.
Well I realize you were just being sarcastic but I thought since you asked some questions I would indulge you and answer them anyways.
But you don't have the freedom to choose when you are on private property. You're fundamentally wrong. What's so great about this country is you may have the right to walk around in your own home without a shirt on, but when you go into somebody else's house, you don't, neccesarily.
Of course I do, its still my body and if im denied service simply because of the way I am then thats discrimination, that cant be tolerated.
My favorite part is the way you claim that this isn't a business decision, and then give us an essay in which you describe why having people keep their shirts on is a bad business decision. I mean, which one is it dude?
I realize it isnt a business decision but I was just mentioning how them denying shirtless customers service could be a bad decision as far as business goes for them. Their "personal" decision could hurt their business. Thats all I was saying.
In other news, obviously the majority of this board thinks you're completely dillusional, what's the point of writing all of this here when you could be writing to your local parks? If you really feel that discriminated against, shouldn't you be contacting them? *** Edited 5/24/2006 12:14:02 PM UTC by matt.***
Been there, done that. It doesnt do any good to talk to them because you cant talk to anyone important that it would have any impact to talk to because youre always stuck with some public rep person who could care less and just gives you some pre-recorded response like a script. No thank you, id rather talk to an intelligent human being instead of a person who acts like a robot to me. Nobody whos actually in charge ever hears your complaint.
So you don't go to the dentist, you only eat in fast food "restaurants" and you want to go shirtless 24/7?
That just proves the point even more of those who want others to wear shirts.
I havent been to the dentist in a while and ive just recently been going shirtless and embracing the lifestyle. I eat in fast food restaurants because they are cheap and quick, besides I have better chance of going shirtless there than in some fancy restaurant anyways. If I could I would go shirtless 24/7 no question about that.
If you really think that a couple of guys who don't want to wear shirts really will really affect a parks business...I really think you are way over estimating yourself.
Thats just counting the ones brave enough to do it and get caught, it doesnt count all the ones who want to and just dont have the balls to do it. If they all just claimed discrimination and refused to go to the parks until they changed the rules then it would make a big difference. Too many people just want to conform and dont feel their opinion matters or will make a difference.
I still agree that Mike131 is completely dillusional, though. He'll learn as he grows older when he sees the skin-cancer-free, non-wrinkled, and well preserved shirted majority still enjoying life in their old age while those who thought they were "living life the to fullest" find out that they're still alive at 60 and living life in a rocking chair covered in a shawl.
By then im not really gonna care much one way or the other. I accept the fact that people get old and die eventually and its gonna happen to me someday, but until im old and frail im going to go shirtless and enjoy life. Its the other people who are missing out on life, sure they're still alive and kicking but whats worth being alive if you cant live your life and do anything you enjoy?
In a less law suit happy world then yes I would agree with you, but in todays society where the smallest thing will bring a law suit then I can understand the parks requiring people to wear shirts on coasters, just as a preventive measure.
Those people are just paranoid and buy into all the media hype about the whole thing. Its not that easy to sue a park for something like that and win like the media would like you to beleive. Besides when it really boils down to it, they dont require shirts for legal reasons, most of these places have good lawyers to cover their ass in almost any situation. They just dont like shirtless people.
And even if the parks would win the case, which is not a given considering how some cases have gone, it would still cost them money. Alot more than it would to just ask someone to put their shirt on.
They have the lawyers and plenty of money to go around. Besides they could always threaten the person sueing them that if the company wins the case then they can turn around and countersue the person who sued them in the first place. That would shut these people up real quick. They dont have anything to worry about.
I will say that when I worked at amusement parks, I would have to ask people to put their shirts on. I would always do it politely and tell them that it is the parks policy.
You could always just ignore it and act like you didnt see them go by shirtless.
And that is the crux of it, the fact that it is the policy of the park that you must wear shirts. If you are on their property and they want you to wear a shirt (for whatever reason, be it personal, or business) they have the right to ask you to put it on. If you don't like that, well you don't have much choice, that is the whole idea of freedom in this country.
Even places that are on private property cant have rules that discriminate against people or treat them unfairly. There are laws about such things.
Yes the "right to accept consequences" So accept the consequence, that if your shirtless they will ask you to put a shirt on or you can leave!
Why should I have to leave? I would have paid good money to get into that place and im doing nothing wrong. If I chose to be shirtless and get hurt its my own hide, I accept whatever risks come to my person as a result of me going shirtless, so they have nothing to worry about, its not like id ever sue them anyways for something like that.
Face it Theme Parks aren't the only places to ban shirtless people. Your not going to convince any of us that it is morally or socially acceptable.
Its equally wrong and discriminatory at those places too. This is a theme park forum so im making the topic relevant.
Take it to the supreme court buddy you can do it.(and get laughed right out) If you ever came my house and disrpected my rules like you are the parks you would get kicked out also you going to sue me go for it. You going to make a post about it on Coasterbuzz or Buzzpoint.
I dont want to have it get to the point where id have to go to the Supreme court or do anything like that. Besides I wouldnt go to your house shirtless or otherwise and even if I did, if I did go and you told me to put a shirt on or leave id probably just leave. Your house and a business are two different things. Businesses serve the public and make a profit from them and thus have to follow certain laws as to how they treat their customers, a person who runs a house doesnt fall under any of this criteria.
It's their place of business and they make the rules they need no reason or excuse as to why it is, it just is. If you don't like it, to bad.
It would make the business seem more honest and legit if they DID have a good reason for it, but many dont. Their ass would be covered if someone tried to sue them if they had a legitimate reason why they required such a rule. Most of these parks just hide behind fake reasons because they dont want to admit that the only reason they require shirts is because they dislike the sight of shirtless people. They cant say that because that would mean people would feel insulted by them and look down on them and gee-wiz we cant have that.
Yes there are other issues that take away from a parks Family Atmoshpere like swearing and excessive PDA. I have seen the Park Ranger at Worlds of Fun ask people to stop both things before. They are equal opportunist. You feel singled out about putting the shirt on because thats the only thing that you have been asked to do. Lets be honest thats the easiest thing to spot and notice.
Most parks dont know if they can enforce any rules or not because alot of them dont even try unless its something they personally dislike. If these people were as vigilant with other disruptions as they are with shirtless people then theyd catch most of the deviants in the act.
Swearing lots of times is hard to tell who it came from when the park is crowded. Excessive PDA(groping, making out, fondling) is generally done real quick and/or in a somewhat secluded area and is harder to spot. Open to the general public still, but harder to spot from a distance.
Things like that dont generally need to be dealt with unless they can be spotted or unless theyre causing a huge disruption. Most of the time these people dont cause any problems and try not to be seen anyways so its just best to leave them alone.
God definately didn't invent deodorant but he did however cover up Adam and Eve with what would be their equivalent to clothes. So if you want to start talking God and religion that stops you dead in your tracks.
I was being sarcastic. He gave us the tools and ability to make it though. I only mentioned that because I thought people would smell less if they tried to follow some basic hygeine more which alot of people dont do, shirted or unshirted. Hygeine is the problem, not people wearing shirts. I dont want to start a religious debate anymore than anyone else here does. Not everybody beleives in the whole adam and eve thing anyways so you cant apply that to everyone. If all the fundies and bible thumpers out there had their way, they would though.
superman said:
I know that in the U.S., you have this concept of "Nudity", that we don't even have a translation for in many European languages - but that surely doesn't make Europeans the immoral Sex-Maniacs some American movies such as "Europtrip" or "Hostel" make them out to be.
In fact, I sometimes think we have a more responsible attitude towards "sexuality" over here.
Agreed, and agreed. But Europeans don't have Fundamentalists running their countries either, so how can your political leaders know when they're making the "right" decisions? ;)
There's lots of reasons the Puritans left Europe....one of which was they'd worn out their welcome...
"Now the world don't move to the beat of just one drum, what might be right for you, might not be right for some"....(unless you're a Fundamentalist).... ;)
They might as well be the ones who say it to me. When a park employee tells me to put a shirt on theyre basically retelling what the employer already said to them, so its just the same as if it came from their mouth.
And somehow the way these park employees tell you to put on your shirt reflects on the reasoning behind the decisions made by upper management? Uh-huh. That's not called intuition, that's called paranoia (or schizophrenia, depending on whether there are voices involved or not).
I realize it isnt a business decision but I was just mentioning how them denying shirtless customers service could be a bad decision as far as business goes for them.
And around, and around, and around we go!
I don't know about everyone else, but I'm extremely thankful that you're not only "indulging in the shirtless lifestyle," (LOL!) but that you're only eating at only fast food restaurants. Nothing turns me on more than than a shirtless man eating a twelve piece bucket of chicken.
-Nate (slightly upset that someone has eclipsed my quoting capabilities, but I think I'll get over it)
*** Edited 5/24/2006 7:03:57 PM UTC by coasterdude318***
Yeah, what a great country we live in. A guy like Mike131 has the personal choice to decide where and when he wants to wear a shirt, whether at work, in a restaurant or a dentist's office. But apparently if his boss/customers/clients or his dentist's personal choice is that their employees/patients appear fully clothed, he whines about how unfair things are.
Its my body, not theirs. They dont have a right to tell me what to do with it. They also dont have the right to deny me service just because I happen to lack a shirt and enjoy being as nature intended for me to be. I mean why should I be forced to conform to an oppressive society?
I still don't know what the big deal is here. The "No shirts, no shoes, no service" rule has been in effect for years now. Why would that change, or be expected to change?
Because like anything else, things change and eventually people are going to get more and more relaxed about the body and going shirtless isnt going to be a big deal anymore and these signs will be out of style.
I don't think it's about the installation of too many rules, I just think it has to do with good taste.
Of course its about too many rules. You can still be shirtless and have "good taste". These theme parks just have too many rules about every single thing that they dont like and they fee free to limit people's freedom to chose and exercise their rights every chance they get. Its oppressive. Its bad enough they make you pay a ton of money that they dont need just to let you in, im sure the money isnt just for their fancy signs with all the rules on it.
Let's face it- a lot of Americans don't exactly look wonderful without normal clothing and I think there should be some kind of guidelines to prevent "visually offensive" sights.
So what!!! Who cares if they dont look exactly wonderful without clothes? MOST PEOPLE DONT! People dont have the right not to be offended by anything. The world is full of offensive things, GET OVER IT! A park would be discrminating against their guests if they only allowed the attractive ones in.
Just because something "feels right" doesn't mean it IS right. Some things should not be censored while others should.
Just because something offends "you", doesnt mean its offensive. Going shirtless feels right because it is right and its how us men were intended to live.
It's one thing to ban something from the radio (such as Howard Stern) because the station can easily be changed... it's another thing when you're forced to look at something you don't necessarily want to see.
Nobody is forcing you to look at it, you can turn the other way or walk away to another part of the park.
Sure, things change over time. What was taboo a century ago may not register at all nowadays. But there are some things that need to stay the way they are for a reason. Dress codes have changed a lot throughout the years but that doesn't mean that the natural wave of change is eventually going to lead us to become a completely nude society in another hundred years. Why? Because as perverted as some people are, the vast majority of people don't want to go around having to look at a bunch of fat, ugly naked people.. or naked people at all for that matter. And how do you maintain that no one is forcing people to look at people that chose to dress any way they choose? The only way to avoid that is to poke my eyes out with rusty nails and I'm not about to do that just so some people can live as you feel men are "intended to live".
Just because things change doesn't mean that we are eventually going to turn into a society without rules. Whether you care to admit it or not, the majority of people in this world prefer that men wear shirts when in public and just because you feel differently doesn't mean the rules will be altered.
Maybe walking into a KFC and downing a 12-piece meal with a hairy gut hanging out is okay in certain parts of this country but in most places bodies are covered with pants and shirts and regardless of how you feel, that's the way it's going to be. Might as well accept that and save yourself the ulcer now.
But does anybody do it? Outside of the Pride Parade, no. And why not? Because it is a stupid thing to do! :)
Rob: I'll donate a clean nail. *** Edited 5/24/2006 7:16:30 PM UTC by millrace***
I will say that when I worked at amusement parks, I would have to ask people to put their shirts on. I would always do it politely and tell them that it is the parks policy.You could always just ignore it and act like you didn't see them go by shirtless.
Ah but if I am working for the park, and the park policy is that you must be wearing shirts, then it is my job to enforce the policies, weather I agree with them or not. And I have said that I do agree that on the midways, shirts should be optional.
And I don't believe that telling someone to put their shirt on is discrimination, as long as the rules are telling everyone the same thing. Now if a good looking women is walking around without a shirt, and an overweight male is also, but only the male is told to put on a shirt, that is discrimination. But the rules apply to everyone not just to overweight males.
Morté aka Matt, Ego sum nex
Dragon's Fire Design: http://www.dragonsfiredesign.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/mattdrake
Perhaps if you enlightened us a little, we'd understand.
And somehow the way these park employees tell you to put on your shirt reflects on the reasoning behind the decisions made by upper management? Uh-huh. That's not called intuition, that's called paranoia (or schizophrenia, depending on whether there are voices involved or not).
They generally hire people who have the same mindset as they do and agree on the same rules that they do. Also what the employee says/does reflects on the company. If they enforce a shirtless rule and dont like shirtless people generally thats what the whole concensus of the entire park management is as well.
And around, and around, and around we go!
I don't know about everyone else, but I'm extremely thankful that you're not only "indulging in the shirtless lifestyle," (LOL!) but that you're only eating at only fast food restaurants. Nothing turns me on more than than a shirtless man eating a twelve piece bucket of chicken.
I dont eat alot at fast food places, usually just burgers and fries. I would eat shirtless at nicer places but theyre less likely to want my money so I usually dont go there.
They generally hire people who have the same mindset as they do and agree on the same rules that they do. Also what the employee says/does reflects on the company. If they enforce a shirtless rule and don't like shirtless people generally thats what the whole consensus of the entire park management is as well.
Thats just it, if it is a rule in the park then the employee has to enforce it. It does not matter weather they agree to it or not, if they are employed by a park, then it is their responsibility to enforce the park rules. No matter what they are.
And most parks don't hire all people who think the same way they do. With (Cedar point as example) over 2,000 seasonal employees, and most only hired over the phone (and I don't remember a question about whether you think shirts should be aloud in the parks during my interview) finding that amount of people who agree is very unlikely.
*edit* Most of these businesses are also looking at what mainstream society considers acceptable, not what a minority considers (and yes at this time you are in a minority) *** Edited 5/24/2006 7:35:16 PM UTC by Morté615***
Morté aka Matt, Ego sum nex
Dragon's Fire Design: http://www.dragonsfiredesign.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/mattdrake
They generally hire people who have the same mindset as they do and agree on the same rules that they do.
Really? I thought they hired people who could check restraints and push a button every 75 seconds. Silly me.
Also what the employee says/does reflects on the company. If they enforce a shirtless rule and dont like shirtless people generally thats what the whole concensus of the entire park management is as well.
Most park employees probably feel they're underpaid and would like a raise. The consensus among park employees, then, is that they should get a raise. You're telling me that means management feels that way too? That's great news! I'll look forward to my raise later this week.
Seriously, your logic is some of the most flawed I've ever seen posted here. You continue to claim it's not a big deal to be shirtless. Then why is it a big deal to wear a shirt? People who are mature enough to not care about nudity also shouldn't get so worked up about having to wear clothes. True nudists, for example, enjoy being nude but do so in a respectful manner, and don't do it where it's not appropriate and/or allowed. This seems like a maturity issue to me.
-Nate
*** Edited 5/24/2006 7:37:44 PM UTC by coasterdude318***
Closed topic.
