shirtless in parks-how do you feel
Mike131 said:Smoking IS illegal in some places *like inside buildings or near them* and smoking can kill the smoker and harm those around them. Shirtlessness is perfectly legal almost everywhere and it harms noone. Thats the difference. You cant compare smoking and being shirtless.
Its just sweat, it wont kill you,I was being facetious, but you obviously didn't notice that.
I was trying to inject some humor into this thread, although I don't think it's necessary considering several people are probably laughing at you anyway. But again, you didn't notice.
Personally I don't care if people go shirtless, it doesn't bother me. On the other hand, I also don't have any problem with obeying park rules and if I decide to break the park rules you aren't going to hear me piss and moan about it.
You clearly do not understand some very simple truths. Owners of private property do have the right to create rules and codes of conduct for people who are on their property. You agree to this when you buy a ticket, read the fine print. You're buying of the ticket is a contract that you agree to abide by the rules of the park. That is a FACT. If you are breaking the rules and therefore breaking the contract, you can be thrown out. That is a bit harsh and is usually only reserved for those committing more severe infractions.
Secondly, you clearly do not understand what the definition of descrimination really is. Several people have told you how it differs from what you define it as, but you still don't get it. Descrimination generally deals with situations that you don't have control over (gender, race, sexuality, etc...) and a few things you do (religion). It doesn't cover life style choices when talking about private property.
Using your logic the parks have no right to interfere with line jumping (it's not illegal) and that they can't dictate that gang paraphenalia and garb is not allowed. Both things that you haven't mentioned that you have a problem with.
I admire that you feel this strongly about something, but I feel you're a bit misguided.
This proves my point. I can just as easily say, "It's just a shirt, it won't kill you." Yet you can't stand someone telling you that. Why should we put up with something just so you can get it your way?
Life is about gives and takes. You give a litte, I give a little, we meet in the middle somewhere and we both get along.
But you don't seem to agree. You say that you shouldn't have to wear a shirt because it's uncomfortable or it's excessive and it bothers you. Yet you tell us to carry a towel around to wipe up your sweat. What about the excess that you're putting upon us? Does that count for less than you having to wear a shirt?
What about us walking around uncomfortable all day from having a shirt wet from other people's sweat? Does that not hinder somebody else. Obviously it does because the vast majority of posters in this thread have said that it does indeed bother them.
You say go home a take a shower and everything will be fine, I say go home and take your shirt off and everything will be fine. Actually you can take your shirt off as soon as you get to your car, while we're still wearing a wet, smelly shirt soaked from you're sweat. Yeah, that's fair.
#1. YOU do not own the park, it is not yours. The park belongs to the owner(s). They are allowing you to come into their park as long as you pay a fee and abide by a few rules. Alot of non-corporate park owners think of their park as their own home(Holiday World for example). If I invite someone into my home I expect them to abide by the rules I have set forth. I don't care wether they think the rules are fair or discriminate them, its my home. Most respectable people know when they enter into someone elses property that the rules may be different and they respect the property owners rules. If not, then the owner has EVERY right to enfore their rules upon their guest or refuse to let them stay there. This all holds true for theme parks as well. It's not YOUR property, you don't own it....and no, you don't HAVE to abide by the rules. But if you don't there are consequences, and any law abiding citizen excepts the responsibility of that.
Here is another example:
Say I own a nice BMW or some real expensive car with nice leather seats. You either ask to borrow my car, or ask me to take you somewhere. You take your shirt off and hop into MY car. I tell you that in order to drive/ride in MY car you need to put your shirt back on to protect the seats/my health/whatever else. Your telling me that you would say I'm discrimating you? The fact remains, I still wouldn't let you in my car no matter how much you complain about it, and there wouldn't be a thing you could do about it.
#2. Theme Park owners do what they think is best for their business and their guests. Evidentally ALOT of park owners tend to think(and I agree) that most of their guests would not like to see shirtless people walking about the park and riding the rides. Therefore they inact the rule that you must wear a shirt. They are doing what is best to keep the MAJORITY of people happy and coming back to the park. Otherwise their attendance falls and eventually you can say buh-bye to your favorite park.(I'm not saying that this would happen JUST because of the no shirt rule, but you get the point) No matter what you'd like to think or believe, I seriously doubt your in any majority on your view of this. Therefore their rules don't cater to your feelings on this. Tough cookies...thats the way things work.
Okay, I think thats all I wanted to say on this issue. Sorry I was so long winded *** Edited 5/26/2006 3:43:09 AM UTC by HoliJohn***
Now let's compare that experience to being in a park:
You pay an entry fee (rent, if you will). It is not your property, therefore you cannot make the rules and must abide by the rules set by the owners (i.e. smoking or shirtless policies). If you do not follow the rules, you will pay the consequence. Now if the park or any other business makes you pay a monetary fine for not wearing a shirt, I can see your case. I suppose I have a hard time seeing your half of the story, because I do not feel the addiction of being shirtless. (Perhaps there should be a shirtless anonymous group. "Hi, my name is Andy and I like to go without a shirt." ;) )
By the way stupid people do stupid things all the time and sue for them and win. That is what happens when a certain lawyer is better at that job than another lawyer.
Mike, you might be happier and be able to live life more fully if you focused on the big picture and not get ticked off at trivial matters.
Anyway, here's my humble opinion. Personally, I have no desire to walk around shirtless in public - I'm a skinny, pale white male who needs SPF 30 or higher to keep from frying - but as long as people don't ride coasters with their sweaty bodies oozing fluids on the seats, I really don't see it as offensive.
When I was a teenager, I remember Great America (the one near Chicago) having no policy for or against shirtless males in the park. Honestly, I think teenagers used it as an opportunity to show off their tanned, chiseled bods on a hot summers day to impress girls (and maybe some other guys) in the park. No one seemed particularly offended, and personally, I don't think it took away from the "family atmosphere". It's not like people were exposing their genitals or acting vulgar. A bare chest (even an unattractive one) isn't cause for alarm.
Six Flags Great America opened their water park last year, and in my opinion, if people can walk around in bathing suits in that part of the park, they should be able to do it everywhere else. I can see riding shirtless being an issue on coasters and flat rides due to some health concerns (although the concern is probably minimal), but to complain about it as being immoral or offensive is ridiculous.
Sure, in an ideal world, I'd prefer every shirtless person to be gorgeous physical specimens, but that's not realistic - and truth be told, if someone is comfortable enough with their own body to go shirtless in a waterpark, I don't see why people should be offended in the main park as well. Yeah - I don't really want to see man-boobs... but there are plenty of other equally irritating things that we all have to deal with at amusement parks which are unfortunately deemed acceptable... and to be honest, I'd take unsightly man-boobs over shrieking, bratty children any day.
*** Edited 5/26/2006 10:27:04 AM UTC by djgreghaus***
2022 Trips: WDW, Sea World San Diego & Orlando, CP, KI, BGW, Bay Beach, Canobie Lake, Universal Orlando
No shirt? No Problem!
Why work up a sweat? Come to Geauga Lake and just collect someone elses!
Yeah, I could see them bring back Butch Hitide, No sweat, Dude!
Not happening.
Great Lakes Brewery Patron...
-Mark
All I know is that I'm a hairy beast who carries around an extra 25-30 lbs. and there is no way I'd want to see me walking around an amusement park shirtless. Heck, I really don't even like taking my shirt off at waterparks, but it beats wearing a soked t-shirt on all the rides!
If youre feeling hot, why the heck do you care if you or anybody else sees you shirtless? If they got a problem with how you look its THEIR problem not yours. So just enjoy yourself and dont give a damn what they think. Heck alot of other people that wouldnt like seeing me shirtless wouldnt look so hot to me either but I wouldnt stop them from going shirtless and id keep my 2 cents to myself.
No offense Floorless Fan, I'm just building on your quote...
But if I see some hairy beast that's had a few too many Burger King Whoopers & Beers to compliment it, I'm going to be disgusted looking at something like that walking around the park midways. Hair traps sweat, that's the whole point of hair on a human (other than the head & face). It's made to trap in the sweat & bacteria... and therefore would also make one smell a little more than their hairless alternative.
Either way, if someone of that stature is walking around, there would be a LOT of people who would look on in disgust, not saying... but thinking "dude, put your shirt on". You can practically see it in their expressions. If you're that arrogant & have that high of an ego, you just gotta get off your high horse & come back to reality. You're no more special than anyone else, and out of the resepect of others... put a flippin' shirt on!
They have these white cotton mesh shirts that are sometimes BETTER than shirtless because it deflects the light/heat of the sun, and everyone around you doesn't vomit in disgust.
---------
But let's just say for instance that instead of a park, you goto a mall. It's a mall open to the public like a park... but the air conditioner is not working. Because you feel more comfortable, are you going to start walking around the mall shirtless? Does it feel comfortable to you? I'm sure you won't get too far there as you would in a park.
Well, just like park guidelines... no shirts/no shoes/no service!! The park guidelines aren't always clearly displayed. In Cedar Point, for example... they have a clear sign once you exit out of the Snake River Falls water rides area that say "shirts required beyond this point" and workers enforce this policy. Other parks just have it in their Park-Guide broschure (as well as at the entrance). Some don't enforce it as much as they should because there are more important things to attend to, and some don't care because they don't give a rats-ass if their park starts to look like a little hoodlem gang-ridden park of theives.
MANY people have a bad preception of shirtless males. Gang? Thugs? Troublemakers? Bikers? Showoffs? Very few think they're doing it to beat-the-heat... and if you conform against society, especially on private property... then it becomes your problem, and you better adhere to it or you're going to face heavy resistance against the owners.
Sure it is, my body doesnt belong to them and they have no right telling me what to put on my body or when. I dont care whos property im on, its my choice. Its not fair to deny me service just because I chose to do something with my body.
Actually, they can deny you service. Haven't you ever been to a business that states no shirt, no shoes, no service? It IS their property and they CAN tell you what to do. They can also throw you out if they feel like it.
That's like saying: Proper dress required shouldn't apply to anyone if they think it isn't fair.
Fair? What's fair, besides something that comes to many Counties during the summertime and last about a week. If a business says: you need a shirt, than you need a shirt. If you don't like it, take your money and go elsewhere.
Great Lakes Brewery Patron...
-Mark
But if I see some hairy beast that's had a few too many Burger King Whoopers & Beers to compliment it, I'm going to be disgusted looking at something like that walking around the park midways. Hair traps sweat, that's the whole point of hair on a human (other than the head & face). It's made to trap in the sweat & bacteria... and therefore would also make one smell a little more than their hairless alternative.
I don't know, I've been around some pretty smelly hairless people in my time on this planet. But in general, I don't hold the testosterone deficiency of the follicularly-challenged against them. :)
Prick us, do we not bleed?
Wrong us, do we not avenge?
Decloth us in a 90 degree humid amusement park, do we not stink?
-Old Klingon Proverb
:)
Great Lakes Brewery Patron...
-Mark
Why would you support a business who's discriminatory policies against people who like to take of their shirts is akin to discriminating against black people?
Because I still want to go to such places to enjoy myself and since almost all of them have some sort of shirt rule I really dont have a whole lot of options. If I thought itd make any difference or if there was someplace nearby that was more tolerant then id just tell these parks see ya later and id go give my business somewhere else where im appreciated for the normal healthy natural human being that I am.
You clearly do not understand some very simple truths. Owners of private property do have the right to create rules and codes of conduct for people who are on their property. You agree to this when you buy a ticket, read the fine print. You're buying of the ticket is a contract that you agree to abide by the rules of the park. That is a FACT. If you are breaking the rules and therefore breaking the contract, you can be thrown out. That is a bit harsh and is usually only reserved for those committing more severe infractions.
They can only do that if those rules dont discriminate against or treat the person unfairly. I beleive thats what this shirt rule does. So weither its their property or not, it doesnt mean diddly squat.
Secondly, you clearly do not understand what the definition of descrimination really is. Several people have told you how it differs from what you define it as, but you still don't get it. Descrimination generally deals with situations that you don't have control over (gender, race, sexuality, etc...) and a few things you do (religion). It doesn't cover life style choices when talking about private property.
Why make going shirtless legal if youre gonna let these parks set up all these rules taking away those freedoms from people? That doesnt make any sense. If going shirtless is legal you should be able to do it anywhere as long as its safe. I realize what the word discrimination means and maybe its not the best word to define what im trying to talk about but its the closest thing I can think of and I really do think its a form of discrimination or at the very least unfair treatment. Like ive said before, if colored people could change the pigment color of their skin at will then these parks would probably feel its within their right to require guests to turn their skin white before coming in. Just because those colored people have the choice to change their skin doesnt make it right and doesnt mean the park should have the right to require that.
Using your logic the parks have no right to interfere with line jumping (it's not illegal) and that they can't dictate that gang paraphenalia and garb is not allowed. Both things that you haven't mentioned that you have a problem with.
Line jumping is/can be disruptive the majority of the time and its just plain dishonest and rude. I guess you could try to claim the same is true of going shirtless but I still feel that theres a difference between line jumping and going shirtless. Gang paraphenalia represents doing illegal acts and can sometimes encourage young people to join gangs and get involved in such illegal acts. I dont have a problem personally with people who wear such things and I would not ban it if I owned my own park, but I wouldnt encourage anyone to wear it or bring it into a park, although I dont think a park should ban it, they should simply encourage people not to wear such things for the sake of being courteous. Anyways I dont look at those two things as being on the same level as going shirtless.
I admire that you feel this strongly about something, but I feel you're a bit misguided.
I just think people should be allowed to make the right choices for themselves and not be required to by people who wish to impose their own morals/values on people. People were given free will and freedom of choice for a reason and should be allowed to exercise it in the hopes that they make the right decision.
This proves my point. I can just as easily say, "It's just a shirt, it won't kill you." Yet you can't stand someone telling you that. Why should we put up with something just so you can get it your way?
I meant when I said that "sweat wont kill you" I was trying to say that most of the time coming into contact with sweat will not cause death or serious illness/injury. For me, coming into contact with sweat I can deal with but I feel very uncomfortable wearing a shirt unless its practical to do so and even then I only wish to wear it as long as I absoultely must. I just feel most people can deal with sweat better than I can deal with wearing a shirt. Since youre not in my position theres no way I can really expect you to understand how it feels. Youd have to be me or in my position to really understand it. All I can say is there's a definite difference.
Life is about gives and takes. You give a litte, I give a little, we meet in the middle somewhere and we both get along.
I dont ask for alot, I simply want to be able to enjoy my time at the park wearing the least amount of clothing that I absoulutely need. If Im able to do that im reasonably happy and I wont have any problems with anybody. I can put up with alot of things, its juat hard for me to put up with that.
But you don't seem to agree. You say that you shouldn't have to wear a shirt because it's uncomfortable or it's excessive and it bothers you. Yet you tell us to carry a towel around to wipe up your sweat. What about the excess that you're putting upon us? Does that count for less than you having to wear a shirt?
I just suggested bringing a towel to wipe up the sweat as an alternative to the ride operators wiping/cleaning the seat or you having to deal with a wet sweaty seat. I wouldnt expect you to have to carry around a towel to every ride with you if you didnt want to, it was just a suggestion. Some people carry around towels anyways just to keep themselves dry.
What about us walking around uncomfortable all day from having a shirt wet from other people's sweat? Does that not hinder somebody else. Obviously it does because the vast majority of posters in this thread have said that it does indeed bother them.
If your shirt is wet from sweat then I would suggest to simply take it off and or change it with a dry shirt. Whichever option works. If its a hot day then your shirt will be wet from your own sweat as well as anybody else's sweat you might come across so sometimes it might be a good idea to have another shirt with you or like I said if its at all possible just take the shirt off and keep it off if its wet.
You say go home a take a shower and everything will be fine, I say go home and take your shirt off and everything will be fine. Actually you can take your shirt off as soon as you get to your car, while we're still wearing a wet, smelly shirt soaked from you're sweat. Yeah, that's fair.
That defeats the whole point though, I already do that most of the time. If I wanted to walk around my home shirtless I would simply stay home and not go anywhere but thats not my objective. I simply want to be able to go about my business and enjoy myself shirtless and not be bothered by anyone. If I can do that I will give people their space and not do/say anything to bother them.
Mike131, I think you are missing a couple of key points to this issue here.
#1. YOU do not own the park, it is not yours. The park belongs to the owner(s). They are allowing you to come into their park as long as you pay a fee and abide by a few rules. Alot of non-corporate park owners think of their park as their own home(Holiday World for example).
People who own homes areint under the same obligations and laws that someone who owns a park is. A person who owns a home can legally tell a black person he cant come in cuz he's black, if a park owner did that, theyd probably be fined or go to jail. Theres a difference. It doesnt matter what these people think of their park as. They still have to treat their customers fairly and like humans instead of treating some innocent person like some petty criminal.
If I invite someone into my home I expect them to abide by the rules I have set forth. I don't care wether they think the rules are fair or discriminate them, its my home.
Like I said above, in your home it doesnt matter if you discriminate against someone or not. There's no law against that. These parks are not these people's homes though. They cater to the public.
Most respectable people know when they enter into someone elses property that the rules may be different and they respect the property owners rules.
When I go into a person's property I expect that the rules might be different but I expect the rules to be reasonable and I expect to be treated fairly and treated the same as anyone else coming in.
If not, then the owner has EVERY right to enfore their rules upon their guest or refuse to let them stay there.
As long as they dont discriminate against or mistreat their guests then yes this is true.
This all holds true for theme parks as well. It's not YOUR property, you don't own it....and no, you don't HAVE to abide by the rules. But if you don't there are consequences, and any law abiding citizen excepts the responsibility of that.
They need to remember though however that I am the CUSTOMER and I chose to come to their park and bring them business and profit and they have to decide what is more important, the money they are getting from me or some silly shirt rule. If they truly value their customers then they would do their best to try to please them. Alot of parks could care less about thier customers as long as they stay in business.
Say I own a nice BMW or some real expensive car with nice leather seats. You either ask to borrow my car, or ask me to take you somewhere. You take your shirt off and hop into MY car. I tell you that in order to drive/ride in MY car you need to put your shirt back on to protect the seats/my health/whatever else. Your telling me that you would say I'm discrimating you? The fact remains, I still wouldn't let you in my car no matter how much you complain about it, and there wouldn't be a thing you could do about it.
Your car is different from a park. I would not ride with anyone unless they let me ride shirtless anyways. I could find other ways to get where I need to go.
#2. Theme Park owners do what they think is best for their business and their guests.
*sigh* I wish that was so. They do what is best for THEMSELVES and their business. They could care less about their customers as long as they keep the money flowing and as long as they do what they have to so they can keep the police from knocking on their door.
Evidentally ALOT of park owners tend to think(and I agree) that most of their guests would not like to see shirtless people walking about the park and riding the rides. Therefore they inact the rule that you must wear a shirt.
If thats how they feel then why not just say that when asked to explain why they have the rule then? They dont say this (well sometimes they do but they usually emphasize the other stuff more) they usually try to come up with some lame health/saftely/legal excuse instead. The only reason they dont like shirtless people in their parks is because they themselves dont like seeing shirtless people. They think denying these people service is better than accepting their money and treating them like human beings.
They are doing what is best to keep the MAJORITY of people happy and coming back to the park.
Oh heck they dont have to worry about the MAJORITY of people. Most people will continue to come there reguardless of some shirtless dude. There are much worse things that happen at parks on a daily basis and you dont see this stopping people. Thats a good excuse but it doesnt really work.
Otherwise their attendance falls and eventually you can say buh-bye to your favorite park.(I'm not saying that this would happen JUST because of the no shirt rule, but you get the point)
A park would never close simply because people got disgusted by seeing shirtless visitors there and stopped coming, that just wouldnt happen. Those people if they stopped coming just for that have problems and are probably smokin something they shouldnt be.
No matter what you'd like to think or believe, I seriously doubt your in any majority on your view of this.
I think there are more people who feel the way I do than you realize, they simply dont have the guts to stand up and say it.
Therefore their rules don't cater to your feelings on this. Tough cookies...thats the way things work.
They probably said this in the past for all the other things that parks didnt let people wear or do and see how things have turned out now. The way things work always changes and its never tough cookies if you really want something to change bad enough.
Mike, suppose you were to rent a facility for a party one day. This particular facility is a non smoking facility and the owner has explained that to you. Would you then break that policy, if you could not bear to go another minute without a smoke as much as you cannot bear to wear a shirt?
I dont smoke, I never will smoke, I dont want to smoke. Smoking is hazardous to people's health and can be a big saftey issue, so its reasonable to expect people not to smoke inside of a building and this is one rule I would be sure to follow. You cant really compare going shirtless to smoking. Sure some people cant resist taking a smoke but if its that bad they shouldnt have started in the first place and there are ways to quit and or lessen the urge to smoke if they have started. Going shirtless is a natural healthy thing for people to do, smoking is not. There is no natural healthy reason why people should or need to smoke.
If you were to smoke in that facility and get caught, chances are there would be consequences.
Oh yes I would beleive so and if I was dumb enough to do something that incompetent then I would deserve whatever punishment I got coming to me.
Now let's compare that experience to being in a park:
You pay an entry fee (rent, if you will). It is not your property, therefore you cannot make the rules and must abide by the rules set by the owners (i.e. smoking or shirtless policies). If you do not follow the rules, you will pay the consequence. Now if the park or any other business makes you pay a monetary fine for not wearing a shirt, I can see your case. I suppose I have a hard time seeing your half of the story, because I do not feel the addiction of being shirtless. (Perhaps there should be a shirtless anonymous group. "Hi, my name is Andy and I like to go without a shirt." )
I just see smoking as a huge health risk whereas going shirtless there isnt anything wrong or unhealthy about. So a business has a right and many times a responsibility to ban smoking, whereas going shirtless is more natural and should be accepted.
By the way stupid people do stupid things all the time and sue for them and win. That is what happens when a certain lawyer is better at that job than another lawyer.
So the park just makes sure they have a better lawyer. These things DO happen I realize that but I dont beleive they happen to the extent the media and certain paranoid people would like you to beleive. I cant beleive that our justice system is THAT incompetent to allow such things to happen. Sure convicted murderers get off sometimes but thats due more to cases being complicated and not so black and white rather than anyone being incompetent.
Mike, you might be happier and be able to live life more fully if you focused on the big picture and not get ticked off at trivial matters.
If I didnt have to worry about such so called trivial matters then I could focus myself on the big picture. I feel stupid being the one who isnt doing anything wrong and having to explain myself to people just so I can do what is right and what nature intended for me to be able to do.
Wow... 7 pages of this... really?
Anyway, here's my humble opinion. Personally, I have no desire to walk around shirtless in public - I'm a skinny, pale white male who needs SPF 30 or higher to keep from frying - but as long as people don't ride coasters with their sweaty bodies oozing fluids on the seats, I really don't see it as offensive.
If you ever did want to walk around shirtless just put alot of sunscreen on and reapply it often and just go shirtless, who cares if you look skinny and pale nobody whos' opinion really matters is gonna say anything against you and if they do then what do you care, theyre obviously not worth your time to worry about.
Mike, stop comparing about women being able to wear a bikini and you not being allowed to go shirtless; for one thing it is not analogus they have a (abit small) article of clothing on their upper body when you have none. If you really want an analogus piece of clothing it would be a cuttoff T, which you could further modify to be sleeveless; sure they arent popular right now, but I doubt any park would call you indecient in them. THe ananalgous situation for a women with a man being shirtless would be if the women was also shirtless.
Doing that doesnt accomplish anything because im still wearing a SHIRT and no matter how small it is I still feel the weight of it on my body *on the inside* and I still dont feel like im the same as I would be if I was shirtless and treated the way shirted people were. Besides if im still wearing a shirt then the park still wins and is still able to continue to discriminate men and impose its unjust rules on them. I beleive women should be able to go shirtless in the park too because I beleive its silly that people would think there is any difference between a woman wearing a bikini top and her being shirtless. The only thing you dont see is a nipple and last time I looked I didnt see anyone ever offended by seeing a nipple, theyre the same on men and women, although sometimes a bit bigger on women. I know of some women who feel that same weight on themselves wearing a bikini that I would wearing a cut-off tee.
I can't see a park having a No shirt policy these days. What would be their selling point with this?
No shirt? No Problem!
Why work up a sweat? Come to Geauga Lake and just collect someone elses!
Ive heard of some places like this getting alot of business because it gives the people who dont want to visit the oppressive parks someplace to go and be free and be treated equally and as human beings instead of being treated like petty crooks if they happen to want to take their shirts off. Ive seen park employees confronting even young children like theyre criminals and like the employees are trying to conduct some sort of police interrogation on them, its demeaning.
But if I see some hairy beast that's had a few too many Burger King Whoopers & Beers to compliment it, I'm going to be disgusted looking at something like that walking around the park midways.
Im disgusted by countless things I see people doing at parks, you dont see anybody trying to stop them from doing those things. Most things even if I dont like seeing them im not going to insist that the parks make people stop doing them so why cant people just let me go shirtless and accept it even if they dont exactly find it pleasing?
Hair traps sweat, that's the whole point of hair on a human (other than the head & face). It's made to trap in the sweat & bacteria... and therefore would also make one smell a little more than their hairless alternative.
So what? People who spend a day at a park when its hot are going to stink, thats just a part of going to such places. Ive smelled much worse things at parks than people walking by so im used to adverse smells at parks. If the hair makes people stink that bad then maybe they could try shaving some of it off.
Either way, if someone of that stature is walking around, there would be a LOT of people who would look on in disgust, not saying... but thinking "dude, put your shirt on".
I have people doing that even when I have my shirt ON and that doesnt stop them from coming back again and again so I dont really care what people think about me when im shirtless because wearing or not wearing a shirt isnt gonna change their opinion of me one way or another. Most people the way they treat me makes me not want to care what they think no matter what.
You can practically see it in their expressions. If you're that arrogant & have that high of an ego, you just gotta get off your high horse & come back to reality. You're no more special than anyone else, and out of the resepect of others... put a flippin' shirt on!
If it bothers them that much they can just turn the other way or leave. it has nothing to do with being arrogant or having an ego, it just has to do with wanting to be comfortable and be myself without some self centered young punk coming up to me and harassing me for it and treating me like crap. I dont deserve that. I dont treat anyone else that way. I could care less what anyone else does at a park unless theyre trying to hurt/kill me or bother/hurt/kill someone I care about.
They have these white cotton mesh shirts that are sometimes BETTER than shirtless because it deflects the light/heat of the sun, and everyone around you doesn't vomit in disgust.
That still defeats the whole purpose, im still wearing a shirt. Besides me being comfortable doesnt always have to do with temperature! Sometimes I dont even feel hot but yet I still want to take my shirt off and enjoy being shirtless. If I wore one of those shirts I know by experience it wouldnt stop people from vomiting because ive seen it happen with other people who wear such shirts, people say the same things to them.
But let's just say for instance that instead of a park, you goto a mall. It's a mall open to the public like a park... but the air conditioner is not working. Because you feel more comfortable, are you going to start walking around the mall shirtless? Does it feel comfortable to you? I'm sure you won't get too far there as you would in a park.
Yes I would do that and yes I would feel comfortable. Sometimes I would like the a/c to break because they practically try to freeze you to death in there sometimes and youre lucky that people dont die of pnemonia in there from going between the extremely hot air outside and the extremely cool air inside too quickly. That makes me sick sometimes. Sometimes I feel like I wanna break the damn thing myself. Not that I ever would of course ;)
Well, just like park guidelines... no shirts/no shoes/no service!! The park guidelines aren't always clearly displayed. In Cedar Point, for example... they have a clear sign once you exit out of the Snake River Falls water rides area that say "shirts required beyond this point" and workers enforce this policy. Other parks just have it in their Park-Guide broschure (as well as at the entrance).
I feel if they dont bother to clearly identify their rules then obviously its not that important to them to enforce it because obviously if it was they would make a more concerned attempt to clearly label the rules. How can they expect you to follow the rules if they dont label them clearly and in view where you can read them?
Some don't enforce it as much as they should because there are more important things to attend to
Exactly, they want to deal with the serious issues and let the lesser ones slip by. The parks want to deal with people who are truly doing something dangerous or causing a real disturbance or trying to break/steal park property or hurt someone. They could care less about a shirtless customer.
and some don't care because they don't give a rats-ass if their park starts to look like a little hoodlem gang-ridden park of theives.
Maybe some just realize that letting shirtless customers in makes the place more comfortable and more friendly and youre less likely for it to end up like that.
MANY people have a bad preception of shirtless males. Gang? Thugs? Troublemakers? Bikers? Showoffs? Very few think they're doing it to beat-the-heat... and if you conform against society, especially on private property... then it becomes your problem, and you better adhere to it or you're going to face heavy resistance against the owners.
If its such a widespread problem and so many people have such a disposition to it then why areint there any laws against it or more places that strive to enforce rules against it? I think like most people do that the majority of shirtless people are those who simply want to be comfortable and beat the heat. You always have some bad apples in any group of people shirtless or not but theyre always in the minority. I simply think there are a large amountof people here who have the notion that the whole world doesnt like shirtless people simply because they dont.
Actually, they can deny you service. Haven't you ever been to a business that states no shirt, no shoes, no service? It IS their property and they CAN tell you what to do. They can also throw you out if they feel like it.
Yes I have been to such places. I can claim they discriminated against me and they can get fined or go to jail for it. There are certain limits to what they can tell me what to do. They need to realize im the customer and im the one keeping their ass in business and unless they treat me with respect I can take my business elsewhere and leave them to rot and I can encourage others to go with me. Is this really worth it to them just to enforce a shirt policy? I dont think so.
That's like saying: Proper dress required shouldn't apply to anyone if they think it isn't fair.
"Proper dress" is subjective and means different things to different people. How can any one person decide what is proper dress for anyone else? Proper dress needs to be defined someway before anybody can make any rules about it.
Fair? What's fair, besides something that comes to many Counties during the summertime and last about a week. If a business says: you need a shirt, than you need a shirt. If you don't like it, take your money and go elsewhere.
I could do that but is that what a business really wants just to enforce some silly dress code? Are they THAT desperate to stick to their personal prejudices?
^ That has to be one of the longest posts ever!!!
Yes I have to admit it is quite a long post, however I felt that alot of people here made some really good points that needed to be addressed and I wouldnt feel right doing otherwise. Sorry its so long, beleive it or not I actually passed up a few things that I didnt know how to respond to or were things I responded to already.
What you call discrimination is what I call acting childish. I wanna do what I wanna do and you won't let me. You're mean. Waaaaaaah! Sounds like most 3 year olds I've ever known. Of course, most of them are cured with a firm slap in the backside.
Hypothermia is another issue. I was suprised to read that experts consider water less than 70 degrees to be cold. It's not uncommon at this time of the year to find your white-water-rapids, shoot-the-chutes, or even the waterpark to have water at less than 70 degrees.
If you were to walk around shirtless (or in the wet clothes) for a great amount of time without drying off after one of those rides--you would probably already start experiencing symptom no. 1 of hypothermia--shivering. As we all know, at this time of the year, the temperature can take a nosedive once the sun goes down. It can go downhill from there quickly eventually leading to death if not treated quickly. I found a chart on a rafting site that had a recommended time of exposure versus the temperature of the water before hypothermia can set in. It doesn't take long at cooler temperatures.
Not wearing a shirt during the summer--particularly in the climate I live in (Baltimore), can actually impede your rate of evaporation. Because the air is so humid somedays, there's nowhere for the sweat to go if you're not wearing a shirt. It just sticks to your body.
Mike is actually not alone in his "crusade", as I found many links from Wikipedia dedicated to shirtless wearers. Some were directed more towards Mike's "activist" way of thinking, and some were just for those guys who like another furry guy. I really wish Mike would take his rants to one of those sites, as I think we've long strayed from the reason we all come here--coasters and rides.
Just my opinion.
What I do not understand is that you are unwilling to compromise. I don't want to sit in someone's back sweat as much as you don't want to wear a shirt.
I dont sweat that much and besides id wipe it off the seat before I got out anyways. :) So you wouldnt get your back dirty and I wouldnt have to wear a shirt, so everybody's happy.
Your definition of discrimination is not being allowed to do whatever you want. That's not discrimination-- discrimination is the act of treating a person or group of people differently (usually worse) than you do others. If you were the only person told to wear a shirt while everyone else could go shirtless, that would be discrimination.
I meant that im being treated differently than the other guests at the park just because im shirtless.
What you call discrimination is what I call acting childish. I wanna do what I wanna do and you won't let me. You're mean. Waaaaaaah! Sounds like most 3 year olds I've ever known. Of course, most of them are cured with a firm slap in the backside.
I didnt say I wanted to do everything I want, I just want to go shirtless without being harassed by some self absorbed pinhead who works at the park.
There actually is quite a bit of danger in going shirtless all day. A friend of mine from high school was shirtless at his sister's poolside graduation party and got third-degree burns on his shoulders and back. Granted, this was back in the late 80's when maybe we weren't as caring as we should've been about sunscreen. He also had a relatively fair complextion which didn't help matters.
Well thats what happens when youre a fair skinned guy who goes shirtless all day and doesnt wear enough sunscreen. I dont have that fair of skin and if I think im gonna get sunburned real bad I wear sunscreen. Besides if I get burned thats my own problem and if im stupid enough not to wear sunscreen I get whats comin to me. Going shirtless is only dangerous if you dont take precautions like with anything else.
Hypothermia is another issue. I was suprised to read that experts consider water less than 70 degrees to be cold. It's not uncommon at this time of the year to find your white-water-rapids, shoot-the-chutes, or even the waterpark to have water at less than 70 degrees.
Well you dont see many shirtless kiddies at the waterpark dying of hypothermia after going on the water slides.
If you were to walk around shirtless (or in the wet clothes) for a great amount of time without drying off after one of those rides--you would probably already start experiencing symptom no. 1 of hypothermia--shivering. As we all know, at this time of the year, the temperature can take a nosedive once the sun goes down. It can go downhill from there quickly eventually leading to death if not treated quickly. I found a chart on a rafting site that had a recommended time of exposure versus the temperature of the water before hypothermia can set in. It doesn't take long at cooler temperatures.
Well if youre dumb enough to go on a water ride later in the day when its real cold and walk around in wet/cold clothing or dont dry off then you get whats comin to ya. Why should I have to wear a shirt just because some people dont know how to keep themselves warm?
Not wearing a shirt during the summer--particularly in the climate I live in (Baltimore), can actually impede your rate of evaporation. Because the air is so humid somedays, there's nowhere for the sweat to go if you're not wearing a shirt. It just sticks to your body.
My sweat evaporates just fine and even if it doesnt, its my problem, noone elses.
Mike is actually not alone in his "crusade", as I found many links from Wikipedia dedicated to shirtless wearers. Some were directed more towards Mike's "activist" way of thinking, and some were just for those guys who like another furry guy. I really wish Mike would take his rants to one of those sites, as I think we've long strayed from the reason we all come here--coasters and rides.
Yeah but thats what this thread is about going shirtless on those coasters and rides. :)
Pigmentation does not protect you because your body needs a moderate amount of UV radiation in order to make Vitamin D it has never developed a protection to UV radiation other then the "let affected skin cells kill themselves and then have some new ones proliferate" model. Everytime you expose yourself to that radiation you roll the dice and make yourself more likely to develop melenoma (which by the way is most likely to develop on your back) one of the most deadly cancers we can develop. There is a reason that most cultures living in strong sun environments developed tradtional clothes that covered nearly their entire body, and to walk around shirtless, without applying sunscreen every 3 hours and making sure someone else does your back (since you cant reach all of it yourself) on a more consistant basis (which appperently you do) is frankly a dangerous and stupid thing to do.
Now I know what your thinking, what about guys not wearing shirts at a beach/pool/water park? While it is still a dangerous activity, being in a pool lessens your UV exposure because of how much light gets reflected and refracted off of the surface, also most of us spend less then 1.5 weeks a year in a situation such as this. Since you appear to be a bareback enthusiast, my guess is that you spend at least 2.5 weeks (every weekend from Memorial day to Labor day) and most of the time this is in a situation like this. Also, no sweat does not offer the same protection as a pool does, its too thin and too curvy to have the same effect.
The other thing I dont understand is how you cant comprened that bareback men disgust some people. Our society may tollerate such behavior at a pool, but I know enough people who are disgusted by the behavior anywhere else and also some people (including myself) that question your thought process when I see without a shirt outside of a pool. The parks, in an effort to please the pluarlity have decided to ban that behavoir from their park, which they have a right to do and is not discrimination since it does not affect an unchangeable (ie race or sex) aspect of you, and causing you to wear a shirt does you no physical or long standing psychological (being upset doesnt count) trama.
2022 Trips: WDW, Sea World San Diego & Orlando, CP, KI, BGW, Bay Beach, Canobie Lake, Universal Orlando
It also doesn't fit with the 'wholesome, family type atmosphere' (whatever that is) that parks are going for. Just as one is expected to wear clothing at a public place, so should one wear clothing in an amusement park.
Closed topic.
