SFDL announces new attraction

Six Flags has tried that. I think it's clear how well that works.

And THEN look at the 'conservative' Cedar Fair.

DP's averages 1.4 - 1.6 million and guess what they're building right now? A floorless, no? Isn't that one of the very rides you cited? Oh, the irony!

VF hasn't drawn 1.2 million in at least the last four years and followed up their Morgan hyper with a full-size S&S tower combo and guess what else? An Impulse...yet another ride you specifically cited.

Doesn't that poke a hole or two in your theory? Very expensive holes? Big, towering holes? A-yup. Let's watch it fly 'round the room like a popped balloon now. Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft.

-CO

*** Edited 12/6/2004 2:05:43 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***

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DawgByte II said:

593 acres undeveloped? If you put a MAJOR investment into that and turned that agricultural area into amusement park grounds, I'm almost SURE you could turn that into the next Magic Mountain... you got such potential to add hotels, resort features (ie: golf course which WAS discussed as Darien Lake's long term plans, so don't think I'm just arbitrarily making something up), and attractions.

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Ok, what exactly is there to draw people to north-central New York? Ice? Snow? Cold temps most of the year? Cedar Point is on a lake with a beach, MM is in California, Disney is in Cali and Orlando. There's a reason these places can actually get people to come and stay on-property: because there's a reason other than the amusement park! SFDL has no draw other than the park and the concerts, and based on the percentages shown, why would they add? There's absolutely no reason to - they're pulling a huge market share, I'm sure they're making money and the parent company has no reason to spend money on the park. As others have said, find an argument that actually makes sense other than "WAA my park doesn't have enough coasters" or "WAA I have to drive more than 2 hours to get to a major park" and we'll perhaps listen to you.

Pathetic.

Impulse-ive, you know you would be itching if Kennywood didnt add anything fun every two years or so. I know I would be. You ask what would draw people to New York? Maybe the same thing that draws people to Knoebels, camping coasters and fun.

I dont think anyone is asking for a major park, just one that is fun again. One that maintains their rides and the park and adds new and fun rides every few years. The place is falling apart, the front of the park is in shambles, the rides are in disrepair ... I want to go back but the place isnt as much fun as it used to be.

Impulse-ive: But even that doesn't answer the question.

VF competes with itself (Camp Snoopy) and the closest major parks are 4-6 hours away. Yet CF keeps building more attractions.

Six Flags knows what their problem is. They said it themselves during a recent conference call. It isn't the attendance, it's the gate.

If SFDL were to get another $10 million coaster, it will be at the cost of those cheap season passes you enjoy.

Actually, they'll add a cheaper attraction, nudge it higher, then another, nudge it some more and only THEN will they bring in enough revenue to justify adding something major...if they're smart.

If the other nearby parks are building coasters, the Tornado's a brilliant idea. Why offer more of the same when you can do something different? Hello, countermove?

Not to mention it's the first step towards justifying a major investment. I sorely doubt it will be a coaster--if they're really smart, they'll beef up the wet attractions. Whatever the case, they've opted for chess pieces instead of the local yokel's tiddlywinks. Yay SFDL.

-'Playa

*** Edited 12/6/2004 3:30:39 PM UTC by CoastaPlaya***

8.3 - For me, Kennywood hasn't added anything fun since Aero 360. I still go, I still have fun, and I have fun because it's always the same. It's as much memories as it is what's actually there. Heck I rarely even get to ride Aero 360 as most of my typical Kennywood people don't like it. And Knoebels doesn't fit the argument - it's exactly what these people are complaining about. That place doesn't add major coasters every other year, or major flats or anything. They're not a destination park for anyone but enthusiasts, the typical SFDL complaint revolves around why SFDL isn't on par with SFGAdv, SFGAm, and SFMM.

Read my quote man - if that's not asking for a major park, I don't know what is.

Yes, but Playa (and I'm jsut asking, I have no idea) is VF less than an hour from downtown Minneapolis? Or is it situated in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by smaller and economically depressed cities (yet still pulls 40%+ of the local population)? *** Edited 12/6/2004 3:58:02 PM UTC by Impulse-ive***

Ok, so some people are a little insane about what they want. MY arguement is that the park has a lot to offer local and non local vistors but they choose to not improve or even maintain the park. The front of the park still has all of the old structures from where you used to check in. Its looks like crap, like its been forgotten as has Predator which has turned into a piece of crap and unlike Mean Streak or Hurcules was once a great coaster.

Knoebels seems to add new things, whether it be campground improvements or new/replaced rides every few years and they maintain their rides like no other. Heck they are adding two new rides this year!

And whatever you may say, Kennywood has added many great things in the last ten years and is continuing to improve and maintain the park with a new entrance this season. They are keeping their regulars happy while attracting non-locals, I dont see why DL cant do the same.
*** Edited 12/6/2004 4:22:25 PM UTC by eightdotthree***

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Impulse-ive said:
Yes, but Playa (and I'm just asking, I have no idea) is VF less than an hour from downtown Minneapolis? Or is it situated in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by smaller and economically depressed cities (yet still pulls 40%+ of the local population)?

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Oh yeah, it's close to a decent-sized metro area. No doubt. But it still doesn't draw SFDL numbers. DP does about the same as SFDL, but has more invested in it. Why? The gate.

VF sure as hell doesn't charge as little as SFDL for passes. When I started buying season passes ('96), the regular price was $65. Cheapest pre-season prices are $70 and regular is $90.

There's no way the attendance is going to jump a million and stay that high. The ultimate answer is the gate. Nudge it higher. Push it way high and offer discounts that taper with time. But above all, it's gotta go up.

-'Playa

Oh there's nothing in western NY to attract people? How about one of the seven wonders of the world, aka niagara falls? How about the two largest cities in NY behind NYC? How about Lake Ontario? How about the finger lakes wine region?

Niagara falls (and I've been there) is the redneck riviera for Northerners who can't afford Myrtle Beach. And that's the Canadian side. The US side isn't even that nice.

Grand Rapids is the second largest city in Michigan. Big deal! It still doesn't top 200K, which is barely a city by most definitions---more like a nice town. If you were shooting for a "big city" to impress us, you probably should have aimed at Toronto.

Lake Ontario I will grant you. It's pretty cool. Especially Niagara-on-the-lake. Cute summertime place to visit, and much nicer than the nearby Niagara falls.

Finally, the finger lakes wine region is nice if you are looking for undistinguished whites from wineries no one cares about. If you want good wine, and are touring for it, you go to Willamette/Columbia, Napa, etc. If you are really serious, you go to Bordeaux. I've been. During harvest. It's really fantasitc. I recommend Saint-Emillion. It's easily accessible from Paris via TGV, and is well worth the trip.

*** Edited 12/6/2004 5:40:42 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

What a snob. I'm proud to be black white trash!
Or is that White Trash of Color? African-American trash? Trash of Alternative Shade?

Anyway....Brian, yo momma.

-CO

I'm a college professor. It's part of the job description. Now where's my copy of the New Yorker?

However, to reestablish my EmGee credentials, I will note that on the trip I took to Saint-Emillion I also took a detour to Disneyland Paris to ride the Parisian space mountain. I even got a hot dog at Casey's Corner (a castle park tradition of mine.) So it wasn't all cafes and cabernets whilst I was there.

*** Edited 12/6/2004 7:11:05 PM UTC by Brian Noble***

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Jamessc85 said:
Oh there's nothing in western NY to attract people? How about one of the seven wonders of the world, aka niagara falls?

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And you know who goes to Niagra Falls? Seniors and families with young children. Niagra Falls is hardly a Spring Break hot spot. And do you know what seniors and families with children are looking for if/when they go to amusement parks? Record breaking rollercoasters? Na, don't think so. Big budget thrill rides? Not really. They go for the water rides, they go for the water parks, they go for the atmosphere, they go for the relaxation, and they go for the family rides. You don't have to look much further than Canada's Wonderland or Dollywood for proof of that. Sure they both got increadible new coasters recently (PCW next year actually), but before that all of their attractions for a long time were family based.

So let's look at the facts so far as to why SFDL hasn't been building coasters:
1) Very small local population base within 100 miles.
2) Decent local tourism draw, but it draws mostly guests that would prefer "calmer" attractions.
3) SFI's current finincial state only permits building coasters where a large return in profits is assured.

HA! Playa that is some hilarious stuff right there! I would say Trash of an Alternate Shade would be most appropriate. Perhaps even Hue.

To continue my not-too-strong-but-still-mine point, and what would the draw of Niagara have to do with SFDL? That's like saying, hey they make chocolate in Hershey, you should visit Kennywood! If I remember right, it's about the same distance away. Plus, peolpe that are headed for the Falls (at least those I know) are not headed for amusement parks. They're either underagers in the US lookin' for legal drinking and gambling, or couples looking for a getaway, neither of which is going to visit an amusement park. And I highly doubt (our one resident wine expert aside) that the wine tasting/visiting population is very interested in an amusement park.

SFDL's in a decent location for festival-type concerts and that's what it's good at. It just happens to have an amusement park attached to it for some "supplemental income", yet some folks treat it like a resort. Sorry folks, come to grips, it's not the nicest area in the world. And just for the record, neither is Pittsburgh, so I'm not going to be hurt by that comeback.

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Impulse-ive said:

Ok, what exactly is there to draw people to north-central New York? Ice? Snow? Cold temps most of the year? Cedar Point is on a lake with a beach

Pathetic.

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You really think anyone goes to CP for the beach? Disney yes, its on the ocean, but the CPLE beach isn't that great.

Pittsburgh sucks. . .

My advice - buy your cheap season pass and use it at Great Adventure. Where I lived in Illinois, it was 2 and a half hours to any amusement park, and that was SFStL. Central Illinois is ALMOST as bad as that area of New York. . .

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Ride of Steel said:

Disney yes, its on the ocean

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I foresee you regretting this in the future. *** Edited 12/6/2004 7:48:39 PM UTC by matt.***

Disney parks are near the ocean, not on it.

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Where I lived in Illinois, it was 2 and a half hours to any amusement park, and that was SFStL.

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Try heading in every direction except towards St. Louis. 3 hrs to SFGAm, 4 hrs to HW, 4 hrs to PKI, 6 hours to CP. Trading off a homepark for several good long-day/short-weekend trips is decent. This selection only pales in comparison to the selection if you lived in the Mid-Atlantic and slightly north of that, PA, OH, Southern CA, or Central FL.

DL to Niagara has just as much relevance as Busch Gardens Tampa does to Orlando.

According to Map Quest, Niagara to DL.

Total Est. Time: 1 hour, 0 minutes
Total Est. Distance: 50.36 miles

Not a bad travel time for Niagara tourists if you ask me. Why was this brought up anyway?

Like Knoebels, DL camping is a tradition for many families, and they continue to get sh*t on every year as the park continues to degrade. I think they deserve more.

If Knoebels and DL switched locations I would visit every year, at least once. DL has that potential. Thats all I am saying.