SFDL announces new attraction
RideMan said:
Such a shame. I thought ProSlide had some pretty good product. It will be sorry to see them go. :((well, isn't that what usually happens after a company sells a bunch of product to Six Flags?)
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
haha! good one ;)
Jeff said:
ShaneDenmark said:
Given the geography, I suspect that they're about as high as they're going to be attendance wise, and they may have research to prove it.Yeah right Jeff. It is located close enough to Niagara Falls and Buffalo to actually have a possible attendance gain. I mean it HAS been crowded in the past.
Basically with MFI and Marineland adding new major rides it will keep the people who wouldn't mind driving 45 minutes to SFDL from doing so because the other parks have more new attractions to offer.
New Attractions -> Higher Attendance
But most people think Higher Attendance -> New Attractions which is WRONG.
ShaneDenmark said:
DawgByte II said:
It's the chicken & the egg...Small investments would likely equal small increases... Then, after a few of these small additions, go for the home run. I still say ya gotta spend money to make money.
I agree with that but with lower attendance and lack of rides for years I think that YES a water park expansion is very important. AND I don't think they need a Hurricane Harbor where they build 30 slides in one year.
If the addition was a Tornado, a set of body slides, as well as a lazy river, it would round off the water park into different categories as well as spike attendance. But such a simple attraction during the time where the surrounding parks are adding coasters isn't going to help them too much IMO. A full water park expansion, not necessarily huge though, would make a bigger impact.
Ride of Steel said:
Yeah right Jeff. It is located close enough to Niagara Falls and Buffalo to actually have a possible attendance gain. I mean it HAS been crowded in the past.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/701374/000110465904007213/a04-3302_110k.htm
Read for yourself...
"This market [for SFDL] provides the park with a permanent resident population base of approximately 2.2 million people within 50 miles of the park and 3.1 million within 100 miles. The Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse markets are the number 44, number 75 and number 79 DMAs in the United States, respectively."
In 2003 SFDL pulled in approx 1.46 million guests (the numbers arn't out for 2004 yet so I have to use last years numbers). I heard from one of the SF S&C reports that something like 90% of the visitors come from within 100 miles of the park. Using all these numbers, the amount of locals that visit the park is equivelent to 42.39% of the local population. You honestly cannot expect the parks attendance to go much higher than that, at least not until the local population base grows by a few million.
And just for comparison purposes...
SFA: 1.425 million guests in 2003; 7.3 million people within 50 miles and 12.2 million people within 100 miles; amount of locals that visit the park is equivelent to 10.51% of the local population.
SFNE: 1.75 million guests in 2003; 3.2 million people within 50 miles and 15.5 million people within 100 miles; amount of locals that visit the park is equivelent to 10.16% of the local population.
SFMM: 3.05 million guests in 2003; 10.4 million people within 50 miles and approximately 17.1 million people within 100 miles; amount of locals that visit the park is equivelent to 16.05% of the local population.
SFGAdv: 3.15 million guests in 2003; 14.2 million people within 50 miles and approximately 27.8 million people within 100 miles; amount of locals that visit the park is equivelent to 10.19% of the local population.
SFDL is NEVER going to be much more than it is, it's time to give up hopes on it becomeing the next SFMM or SFGAdv. There just arn't enough people in the area to warrent a major expansion. Just enough to keep the attendance steady...and if you look at the records, attendance has been steady as compared to the national average trend.
If you can't stand the heights, get out of the line.
SFA has pulled in roughly the same attendance, but a much larger population w/in 50 miles, but it does have a larger selection of coasters.
Hmm... So I think Darien Lake is winning here in that respect...
BUT... also from that link:
"The Six Flags Darien Lake property consists of approximately 980 acres, including 144 acres for the theme park, 242 acres of campgrounds and 593 acres of agricultural, undeveloped and water areas"
593 acres undeveloped? If you put a MAJOR investment into that and turned that agricultural area into amusement park grounds, I'm almost SURE you could turn that into the next Magic Mountain... you got such potential to add hotels, resort features (ie: golf course which WAS discussed as Darien Lake's long term plans, so don't think I'm just arbitrarily making something up), and attractions.
Why not do the same to Cedar Point... how many people within 50 miles? Not much. Isn't Cleveland located closer to around 60 to 75 miles? Hmmm... the next Cedar Point because of the land & potential...
BUT... the more important statement about the link you provided:
"Six Flags Darien Lake’s principal competitor is Paramount Canada’s Wonderland Park located in Toronto, Canada"
If they're trying to compete with this joint, they're not doing too good of a job... a park who adds something major every year, and has 14 (or 15) coasters & a huge variety of flats, and a huge 20 acre waterpark...
If they're REALLY trying to compete, they're not doing a good job because they're not "keeping up with the competition". You've got Wonderland which announced Italian Job in August... plenty of time to plan for a major ride for 2005 at Darien Lake, and what do they put? A waterslide... not a waterpark, but water SLIDE (singluar)...
...not exactly something that's going to get someone to change their mind when deciding to goto Wonderland or Darien Lake for the day.
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/811532/000081153204000013/r10k_2003-filing.htm
"Cedar Point is approximately 60 miles west of Cleveland and 100 miles southeast of Detroit.The park's total market area includes approximately 26 million people, and the major areas of dominant influence in this market area, which are Cleveland, Detroit, Toledo, Akron, Columbus, Grand Rapids, Flint, and Lansing, include approximately 15 million people."
As far as the whole Canada's Wonderland thing...they've openly admitted that they don;t build coasters because they've found the people that come to the park are looking for more family orriented attractions, hence why it has been so long between their last two MAJOR coasters.
It's just bad economics to build at SFDL hence why nothing has been built at SFDL...I'm sure several people can back me up on that...
If you can't stand the heights, get out of the line.
RamblinWreck said:
The park would have to start drawing more than 1.4 million people per year if you want a rocket or an impulse, or even a Floorless or Flyer,
Hi. Cap'n Obvious here.
Very good facts! Very authoritatively stated! Why, I couldn't have done a better job myself even if I added caps, italics and exclamation points!
But one question: Would you mind telling us from which vortex you're grabbing these statistics? I daresay it's the one the sun don't shine from.
I could tell you why...but I won't. Someone else will no doubt beat me to it.
-CO
*** Edited 12/6/2004 2:12:46 AM UTC by CoastaPlaya***
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
Coaster Lover said:It's just bad economics to build at SFDL hence why nothing has been built at SFDL...I'm sure several people can back me up on that...
Why did SF buy it then?
Boy, when you compare SFDL to SFA in terms of surrounding population, it's like a slam dunk. I'd say they're doing pretty well for themselves. What the heck is wrong with SFA? I wonder if it was a SFGAm-sized park if it could do more business, but that market is already crowded with Dominion and Busch.
Jeff - Editor - CoasterBuzz.com - My Blog
Don't forget that Hershey is fairly close too., about 2 hours, so for some in the Baltimore area, Hershey may be a better choice. I dont know.
Then there's SFA, right in the middle of it all...trying to find it's nitch. But they're not doing too bad in comparison. Out of the five big parks, SFA is NOT the one with the lowest attendance. While they're a little over a million guests under BGW and HP, and about 600,000 guests under PKD, they did pull in more guests than Dorney in 2003. SFA just needs to get up to the level of its competitors to be pulling in the big crowds. The atmosphere, the service, the ride selection, the food, and the landscaping all need improved and the park just needs to grow into some of its available land. Once that happens, it's in the prime location for HUGE growth.
If you can't stand the heights, get out of the line.
but thanks for the link..it's like bringing Daddy his big ol' belt for ya whuppin'.
Now prove need to draw more than 1.4 million visitors a year to get more big rides. We're waiting.
-CO
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
Oh, let me quote you "Would you mind telling us from which vortex you're grabbing these statistics?" So yea, someone asked me, and it was you ;)
http://www.reuters.com/financeNewsArticle.jhtml?type=businessNews&storyID=6998722
"The dollar moved up to 1.1317 Swiss francs after hitting a nine-year low of 1.1301 in U.S. trade."
Proslide however is based in our good neighbor, Canada. Maybe SFDL lovers should be directing their anger at the world economy. Sure SFGADv has a $25 million coaster coming, but so far that's the only Swiss coaster that's been announced for Six Flags.
RamblinWreck said:
Look at the Six Flags parks that get the new rides, SFMM (3.05mil), SFGAdv (3.15), SFOT(well, another story, but still 2.6mil), SFGAm (2.575)... almost, if not more than twice the attendance of SFDL, so they generate revenue, and therefore, are worth the investment risk. Unfortunately, Darien Lake really isn't.
Yes but what you need to understand is that one of the major reasons that they have higher attendances is BECAUSE they have new rides. Not the other water around.
If you build it, they will come..
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