Scream So Far= Medusa east Mirror

It's business. You take what you KNOW works, and you use it again because you know what the results will be without uncertainty. Personally, I think that is exactly what SFMM needs after the fun they had with Deja Vu and X for a year... year and a half... two years.. whatever.

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Jonathan Hawkins
Starcoasters.com
"There is a cluster of bees at the top of the lift. Sorry for the inconvenience."

'Gator - I agree that *we* might be less than thrilled to see another Boomerang pop up somewhere. However not all of them are of sub-par quality and we gotta realize that most park guests who ride think they're fun, and in the long run *that's* what matters to the parks.

Lake Compounce and Hershey have two *very* well run and maintained 'Rangs and I'm sure there are others out there. Really the only one I've ridden that was complete crap was SFNE's. I think the good news is that with so many of them in the US we probably won't see a new one anytime soon.

Moosh

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"Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx

Mamoosh said:

"The only people who complain about clones are *enthusiasses*"

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Excellent point. No offense mooshie, but this is like the first time I actually agree with you.

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Riding the Bull anywhere but the back is merely going for a walk.

LOL RagingBullet. I never expect anyone to agree with me most of the time ;)

Moosh

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"Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx

Some enthusiasts are greedy. They want to see nothing but original designs pop up simply for their own visual enjoyment, whether they'll *actually* get to ride it or not is beside the point. Nevermind that there is a business side to things. Great points Moosh.

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"Oh tell me why, do we build castles in the sky, oh tell me why, all the castles way up high".

Justin, you are just glad you get another "Medusa" to use as a pick-up line....;)
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Debeers - ...she'll almost have to...

I can understand the clone bashing argument. I mean, if no one built custom designs, we'd have 8 Medusa Easts and 30 B:TR's (oh wait). No Kraken, no BKF, no SKC....no Raptor, Montu, DD, Alpie...

Sure, it's great to get a fantastic ride in your park, regardless of wheter it's a clone, but it's even better when you haven't ridden it somewhere else already. I spend just as much time re-riding my favorite rides and their clones as the next guy, regardless of which park I'm in, but I have more fun trying new and different rides and comparing them to my old favorites and establishing new favorites, than I do just riding the old favorites over and over.

This, of course, is not to say that SF isn't making the perfectly correct decision in putting a clone in.

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Be polite and ignore the idiots. - rollergator
"It was like that when I got here."
"faster, cheaper, and more often" that's somebody's new sig -UpsideDawnGrrrl

My biggest complaint is that they could have thrown in an immelman real easy, instead of the now inevitable diving loop. Don't understand that at all.

Andy - of course it would be great to have more unique designs. No one is saying otherwise. But you have to realize that to "average joe park-goer" the only thing that matters is "is it fun?"

Moosh

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"Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx

'Moosh, I'll agree that HP's Boomerang is a darn well-maintained ride, and WA's is right up there too. However, SFWoA's and KBF's are more the rule than the exception, and those are the reason the rides have the bad rep that they do.

Of course, never having been a real fan of the boomerang *element* (notable exception is the really stretched out one on Hulk), I'm never going to be a strong advocate for a bunch of those rides cropping up....of course, OTOH, *any* running coaster is a good coaster...

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Never go unarmed into a battle of wits...;)
...and for those who claimed I needed a role model: www.comics.com/comics/dilbert/the_characters/html/character4.html#phil

ApolloAndy, you do have a point, but as Moosh said, "the average joe park-goer" only cares if it is fun. I'd like to add to that point by saying that the "average park goer" isn't going to travel from the east coast to the west coast just to ride roller coasters like we enthusiasts would. I highly doubt if there are any non-enthusiasts who have been to both parks(except under certain circumstances). So in my opinion it really makes sense that SF would clone a ride that has been such a hit on the east coast and just build another one on the west coast for far less money then it would take for B&M to desighn a whole new ride. It is really the "average park goer" that parks cater to, not the picky enthusiast.

Well, I definitely agree with Mamoosh. I enjoyed Medusa-East to the fullest. It would be awesome to see a clone of a ride *I* enjoy, pop up somewhere else.

Furthermore, I notice some hypocrisy going on in the *enthusiasses* community. If a clone of Superman:RoS (any one) was being built at a park, everyone is happy/excited; however, when non-hyper rides are built and is cloned, it is not as well-received???

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100th coaster....Dania Beach Hurricane!

Who cares it's a clone it will still be a kick ass ride. When I go there this summer im going to ride it anyway. Clone or no clone its still going to be a great coaster.

JDB - how do you know it would be "easy" to change the diving loop to an immelman? You have to look at the order of the inversions and how each sets up the one that follows.

In a dive loop the track leaves the inversion at ground level, thus making the transition up into the zero-g roll easy. With an immelman the track leaves the inversion up high, which means additional track is needed to drop back down before rising up into the zero-g. Sure, it can be done but it would require additional track between the immelman and roll [see Montu for comparison] and mean changes to the location of elements in the rest of the layout as well [for example, the boomerang element would have to be pushed back].

B&Ms may seem "cookie cutter" in their inversion order but there is a logic to it.

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"Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx

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nasai said:
Justin, you are just glad you get another "Medusa" to use as a pick-up line....;)
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Debeers - ...she'll almost have to...

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LOL!! Yeah, anything for a date... Although the first time around didn't work out, so perhaps it was the choice of coaster? ;)

Seriously though, everyone has valid points, Moosh especially. I know I purchase DVDs of movies I absolutely love and want to watch over and over. It's the same when you find a coaster that you can just ride and ride and ride, regardless of how many times you've been on it. Most people that complain about clones are just too narrow-minded to see the other side of the coin: that this is a business and businesses need to make money. It's not about keeping "enthusiasses" happy, it's about pulling in as many butts as they can, and this ride will be able to do that. A park guest sees a new coaster, regardless of whether or not it's a Vekoma boomerang or a B&M floorless clone. They could care less of what it is, and that's the whole point. It's new, it's fast, it's a different sensation than what they've felt before. So it'll be a hit. Plus, it gives SFMM another coaster to boast about, and also gives them the capacity they are in desperate need of.

Some people just need to lighten up a bit and realize that the entire coaster world doesn't revolve around enthusiasts and what makes us happy. =)

Justin "Next time I get married I'm doing it on Hulk" Adams

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Never look a gift horse in the mouth, because horses have very bad breath

Coasterr hit the nail on the head when he said:

If a clone of Superman:RoS (any one) was being built at a park, everyone is happy/excited; however, when non-hyper rides are built and is cloned, it is not as well-received???

Good point...I wish I would have thought of it. When it was rumored that SFStL might get a SFH Goliath clone people were thrilled! Yet if they ended up with a Deja Vu or V2 imagine the uproar!

God forbid if the economy or war gets so bad that parks are forced to close. Don't laugh, its happened before in the depression. Then we'll all be wishing we had that Boomerang or Medusa clone to ride.

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"Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx

....but that's exactly why the *clone argument* is such BS.....the point isn't whether there's another ride just like it somewhere else, the point is that "the ride itself" kicks butt...and this one DOES...

bill, who says we should ship *all* the Boomerangs to Matthew's house...;)

Go ahead, 'Gator, but my landlord would kill me!

Moosh - trying to imagine what 30+ boomerangs on Dockweiller Beach [just south of Venice Beach] would look like...

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"Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx

30+ Boomerangs in one place? A giant scrapyard?

2004 Knott's gets a Talon clone and the SoCal Clone Wars begin, although Cedar Fair says SF started it.

2005 DCA Rock'n'Roller Coaster Clone.

2006 Santa Monica Pier gets SLC (a first in SoCal)

2007 SFMM gets a clone of Viper at SFGAm ;)

2008 Knott's retaliates with Swealtering Timbers.

2009 Adventure City gets a Roller Skater.

And the Clone War ends with whimper instead of a bang.

Excellent point Coasterr!

I never heard any complaints about SFA's mirror of Superman, nor much outcry over the new Impulse invading a certain Cedar Fair park.

I'd also argue that the majority of enthusiasts don't travel cross country for rollercoasters either. Not everyone has the money or time.

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"Oh tell me why, do we build castles in the sky, oh tell me why, all the castles way up high".