PKIs Flyers to Carowinds?

With me, figuring out just meant I didn't have to feel inadequate anymore because I couldn't do it. :)

Jeff,

I'm sure you would change your mind about enthusiasts being the microscopic minority that likes the flyers. Two eight year old girls had a petition signed by over 700 people from about 1:00 - 4:00, which were only signed by about 20-30 enthusiasts. There was over 80 complaints filed at GR on Saturday (which a very small microscopic minority of were enthusiasts), and countless amounts of others today, who were very upset about the ride leaving. I waited up to a 1/2 hours today for the Eagles, and everything else in the park was a walk-on, yes I said everything (FoF, DZ, Delirium, Beast, everything!). But, I guess you were right, no one in the GP likes the Flying Eagles.

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RideMan said:

I'm also going to say, as I have said before, that this is a boneheaded decision.

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I'll second that. Although short-sighted would be a better term.

If anyone wants to talk real business sense here (not just hypothetical garbage), why don't we discuss why the company doesn't just leave the ride at PKI since it seems mechanically sound and still quite popular and instead buy a new ride for Carowinds if they indeed need another flat ride that badly?

*** Edited 10/18/2004 5:27:59 AM UTC by Rob Ascough***

Trust me Rob we do need another flat ride that badly at Carowinds.

I can understand why the people from Ohio would be upset over losing a ride that has been in the area for so many years. Especially to a ride that will lose it's theming and name quicker than Wayne's World did. Italian Job, Worst name ever

My little girl is looking forward to having this ride at Carowinds next year as it was her favorite ride when we visited PKD last season. I do think we should get a new version and PKI should relocate theirs within the park.

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L. Kris Allen said:
I'm sure you would change your mind about enthusiasts being the microscopic minority that likes the flyers... There was over 80 complaints filed at GR on Saturday (which a very small microscopic minority of were enthusiasts), and countless amounts of others today, who were very upset about the ride leaving.

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So out of tens of thousands of people that visited the park this weekend, that's a vocal majority? And how many will stop visiting the park next year?

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Rob Ascough said:
If anyone wants to talk real business sense here (not just hypothetical garbage), why don't we discuss why the company doesn't just leave the ride at PKI since it seems mechanically sound and still quite popular and instead buy a new ride for Carowinds if they indeed need another flat ride that badly?

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You answered your own question... why buy a new ride when the company has one that PKI will surely survive without? *** Edited 10/18/2004 3:38:36 PM UTC by Jeff***

Jeff,

Most people didn't know that it was going out, and virtually everyone that did find out was really angry. The people watching the flyers compared to people watching the Vortex across the path was insane. The flyers line was 4 rows deep, and Vortex was sending trains out with 3 people. I'm sure they got a lot more complaints than 80 on Sunday. I am sure that they got at least a couple of hundred complaints. They probably got more complaints at GR than Vortex did riders, on a very, very slow day, except for the long lines at the flyers.

How did I answer my own question? I'm wondering why a new ride isn't built for Carowinds so the original ride, which appears to be quite popular, can be left at PKI? Considering the cost of shipping the ride, refurbishing it (which will no doubt happen, even if it's just in the form of new paint) and rebuilding it, I can't imagine a new ride costing that much more. It's not like this isn't going to cost the company a few dollars.

I believe that a new set of Larson's are about 1/2 million dollars. The difference between them getting Larson's and PKI moving theirs down to PCar couldn't be to big of a hit to Paramount, if any.

I'm not going to say that moving PKI's ride to Carowinds is equal to the cost of a new set (assuming that $500K price to be accurate) but there are costs involved and I'm not sure they are worth PKI losing a ride that people seem to love. While I admit that flying scooters are not a huge draw and are not a "make or break" ride for a park, I stand by my opinion that it's rides like these that make a good product even better and therefore have a place at the park.

I couln't agree with you more on that Rob. There's is not as big of a difference between building a new one and moving PKI's that is worth the loss. You're right about it not being a huge draw, or a make and break ride. It is however the type of ride that the whole family can ride. It's the type of ride people make memories on with friends and family, and that sense that the flyers create at PKI, that great atmosphere that I love, is a big reason people come back.

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swampfoxer said:
It's ludicrous to assume that just because the picture is PKI's flyers, that those are the ones that Carowinds are getting. I mean, I can count endless Paramount & Six Flags brochures where they picture a ride from another one of their parks...

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<-- Here's me accepting your apology, Mr. Foxer.

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sayeth the Jeff:

Why is it so hard to believe that they simply want to bolster the lineup at Carowinds and PKI still has a great collection of rides without it? It's really not more complicated than that.

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und...

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No, Dave, "they" are pissing off a few dozen vocal enthusiasts. You remember how significant said group is in the big picture, right? If you said, "Not very significant," then you answered correctly!

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Help me understand something then. How come someone like me who has the MOST to gain from this (i.e. Carowinds is the closest major park to me, I DO know how to snap them, if it works out that it's allowed, and I don't make money off of a club that jointly hosts an event with Paramounts King's Island) and I'm firmly in the group of the "what the shine is corporate Paramount thinking???"

My whole point is, spin it any way you want, but please don't insult me with the selling point of "Kings Island shares the wealth with little brother Carowinds!" It's a dumb idea to move them. Period.

6 guys and a UHaul truck could practically move the Flyers across the park to the old Flight Commander spot in 3 hours. Heck, I know 2 that would sign up and do it right now. Give Kris Allen a 6 pack of beer and that guy would try to do it himself.

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Jeff said:

So out of tens of thousands of people that visited the park this weekend, that's a vocal majority? And how many will stop visiting the park next year?

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Save for me making a mad dash through the park to get my credit on the new coaster and a few spins on Delerium on a flyby trip through Cincy? Me.

It's odd, I used to be the type of enthusiast that parks never made $$ from. Season ticket holder who always left to eat lunch and never played any of the games. But, I'm 30 now, and I'm slowing down and actually enjoying parks now instead of credit whoring my way through them. But attractions like the Flying Eagles helped me make that transformation. Looks like PKI is doing their part to help change me back to the old me.

Brian, you know no one would have to give me anything to keep the flyers here. Hell, I would give what I could to keep them here. Although it will take at least a six pack to make it through every trip to PKI next year. Delirium drunk, I know nothing about, really I don't.

It was a pleasure to spend the last night of the Flyers at Kings Island with you Kris and so many other Flyer fans. It was really important and touching to hear all the stories from you, Sean, Chuck, James, Eric, Brad, Pat, Maureen, etc. and how much this was a bonding experience, an interactive ride that scared people out of line and didn't fail to scare yourself time and time again, a place to meet up (I don't know how many times I've heard "I'll meet you at the Flyers"), a place where I met new friends and relationships grew with old ones, a ride a lot of us commonly hold a place in a heart for, a place where the rhythm of our footsteps with kids, families, and enthusiasts alike for this same reason and snapping of scooters have been silenced forever more,...

Thanks for the memories Kings Island and that's the least I can do.

+Danny

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Two eight year old girls had a petition signed by over 700 people from about 1:00 - 4:00, which were only signed by about 20-30 enthusiasts.

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Luckly I had the video camera out and got there speach on tape, along with a interview right as they were leaving. Look for it in the week.

Those were the two coolest people in the world on Saterday.

actually from what I seen yesterday, 700 sigs was a significant percentage of the attendance.

Chuck, who when he got to PKI estimated the crowd about 4000

Well, it is over and the Flyers, unless they get a last second reprieve are gone. There was nothing that was going to save the Flyers and I personally believe this was a snapage issue. Eventually, even Knoebels will have to cave into this as well.

As much as we don't like this, this is the world we live in now. It is a sue happy world and PKI would have had more problems and complaints if they had to say no more snapage.

The outcries here just go to prove, though, that there is more to a park than coasters, sorry that some of you are learning a little late in life, ROFL.

Ed

Just goes to show you, Don't trust anyone older than 200. Right Chilly :)

Everyone should read Sean's TR. Great recap of the day. And moving, to say the least. I don't think I've ever lost it at a park before (except when I got to Great America in '92 and discovered my shuttle had been ripped out of the ground, footers and all!).

To everyone that maintained, operated and enjoyed the ride, thanks for the best KI memories to date.

Some pics from the final day.

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Jeff said:
I'm absolutely astounded by the lack of common business sense here. I really am.

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I guess I could say the same about you and Paramount itself for that matter. It's not good business sense to piss off your customers. Especially if you are in a service business that is supposed to make people happy. Why would any business go intentionally out of it's way to piss off five, four, or even one thousand people? And probably a whole lot more. I'd say a large segment of the GP won't even know the Flyers are gone until they get there next spring. So even more complaints will be forthcoming at that time. And again, not just from enthusiast, but the GP as well.

THAT'S what makes no sense Jeff. Companies usually AVOID pissing their customers off, not intentionally try to do it!

And as for the no snapping theroy...eh...I don't think they'd get nearly as many complaints as they have been and will continue to get by removing the ride completely. I doubt most of the GP care about snapping/no snapping. They just want their classic ride that has been in the area for so long. Can't say I blame them. "Progress" isn't always that.

Actually Snapping was a big part of the ride for everyone who rode it. Parents that rode it for years could teach their children how to do it. And in the rare instance the kid could scare their parents.

As a Kid the family used to go to Lesourdsville all the time. I vividly remember scaring my aunt on theirs.

My Aunt used to be a coaster nut and rode the shooting star and screechin eagle for hours on end.

She was scared but she was also enjoying it.

Chuck