PKIs Flyers to Carowinds?

No Jeff, They announced it and the response they got was very, very negative.

I maintain this decision to MOVE them had about as much effect on the BOTTOM line as whether to repaint the "Beast paw prints" on the pathways or to wait until the following year to do so.

Sorry, I still see Paramount as trying to become Universal Jr., and when they try to really step out there like they're doing by building Italian Jobber and it fails to be maintained after 3 years. People WILL look back negatively and miss their "no flash, no frills" Flyers...

I think I already proved that this was a silly business decision with my pros and cons list. PKI probably won't be losing many customers (will Italian Job be able to balance the repeat business from those who claim they're going to visit less now? will it matter? maybe not) by taking out the Flyers, but how much does PC really have to gain? PKI has the higher attendance and is their flagship park and I would be doing everything I could to keep people as happy as possible there. Their effect and capacity at a new park is so minimal by itself. It already had its fanbase at PKI, it was popular with kids, families, and snappers, it was a significant part of the KI/CI history and Coney Mall (is this section going to be phased out in the near future? makes me wonder and that would be so disappointing), etc.

I appreciate your views from "the other side" Jeff and I agree with you on a couple things like at least it's not getting scrapped and at least they invited us for final rides, but I can't make *enough* sense out of their decision to move it to another park. If I was thinking about making a trip to Carowinds as a member of the GP, this ride wouldn't do anything to convince me to go *although* hearing that the park was advertising "two new family rides" and renovating the kids area would be intriguing in words. And we all know how well Paramount can market their attractions, so I really shouldn't have doubt for the fact of this "new family ride" moving the turnstiles at PC.

+Danny

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+Danny said:
...It already had its fanbase at PKI, it was popular with kids, families, and snappers, it was a significant part of the KI/CI history and Coney Mall...

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Quantify that. I'd be willing to concede any of those points if you could quantify that, but so far all I've heard is that some people have hurt feelings.

Unless you live in the Carolinas, I can be sure that Carowinds isn't marketing the "new" ride to you or anyone else more than an hour or two away.

Hey, I wish the ride was staying too, but to suggest it's bad for business without quantifying it is not a very good argument to me. I can nearly promise you that the IJ project has numbers attached to it in terms of attendance. I don't know about the inner-workings of PKI, but I can tell you that it's a fact that many parks budget everything down to the day, deciding how many people will be there at an average gate, adjusted for historical averages and weather, and what they can spend on HR that day. This stuff isn't left to chance.

LOL Jeff.

How can we quantify anything without access to sensitive materials at Corporate Paramount in Charlotte? You organize an event at PKI and you know several higherups in Kings Mill and yet you don't have them, so how can we? Two polar opposite opinions from two different groups of people. Err, groups of people, and Jeff.

Brian, who wishes PKI could keep them even though... hell, I'm getting them.

But how do you know Carowinds will run them the same? ;)

I have a better idea........move them to Camden Park, that way they will be a good midway point between PKI and Carowinds. ;-)

-Tina

Tina, You just want me to come closer to ya. I understand but you don't have to bait me with flyers to do that :)

Chuck

I'm a firm believer in the saying "majority rules", and apparently, on this site, the majority thinks the flyers should stay. As I've said before, I don't care one way or the other, I will probably be visiting both parks next year, and probably still won't ride them @ PCar. But Almost everyone against them moving (and I agree, I don't think it was a wise decision) sees the same thing, While Jeff dosen't.

To me, that says that maybe, just maybe, the larger group seems to be on to something. And don't come back with that "There's a larger group than this minority" crap, because I'm sure if you did a pole at the park over the course of a year, you'd have more people that would want the flyers to stay than people that either didn't care, or want them to leave.

I think both sides have some 'quanitfying' to do.

If I did have access to those materials, I wouldn't risk connections and my job for you. Sorry, but I don't care that much to prove anything to you. I'm sure you understand and didn't expect anything anyways.

I'm surprised you're questioning that the ride has fans (there's not like a memories book out there with a ton of signatures from people who rode them over and over again last weekend), was popular with kids (9 year olds making a petition to save the flyers? silly them), families (hundreds of signatures and dozens of complaints from GP at GR? nonsense and statistically insignificant), and snappers (duh!), and that it's significant to PKI/CI history (it's not like it's one of the few remaining crossovers to Kings Island from Coney Island).

And yes, PKI does have daily attendance budgets and I highly doubt the effect of the Flyers being gone will be noticable to that. *But* why not have points with guest satisfaction including enthusiasts be higher than PKI+Italian Job-Flying Eagles?

I have a hard time believing that PC+Eagles will be > PKI+Eagles for several lines at Paramount (even the "bottom one" seems difficult to swallow from my POV- even if I lived in the Carolinas like our friend, Brian). I'll go out on a limb and say it will hurt some Golden Ticket votes, particularly for the possibility of Best Park, maybe not Best Kids Area so much (although would they care if Carowinds stole the title from their premier park? maybe not), but maybe that's what they want to do. I'll return the favor and ask you to "prove it to me". Have anything better and harder to add?

+Danny

:)

What I dont get is why are we still talking about this. The ride is officially gone as of the beginning of this week. Its already on its way to Carowinds and we are still discussing rather it should stay or go. Its gone so what does it matter.

You mean complaining isn't what enthusiasts do best?? ;)

+Danny, eating and adjusting his fanny pack

Don't spill any gravy on any of those zillion coaster patches on your denim jacket, Danny. ;-)

-Tina

The ride is gone close the topic. *** Edited 10/23/2004 3:02:04 PM UTC by Vortex***

I've said a dozen times that I'd love it if they could keep the ride. My personal feelings on it have nothing to do with the argument.

I just don't think anyone can make a business case for keeping them. Did anyone read the part about attaching numbers to all this? It's what they do, and this is not just some unresearched shoot-from-the-hip decision they made.

My point stand that it won't hurt the park.

Agreed, Jeff. :-)

-Tina

Beast 2004,

Why are we still talking about this?

Probably because people keep on adding to this thread like yourself.

What makes you so special that you feel the need to step in here and ask people why they want to continue to talk about a ride they loved? Go ahead! ANSWER!

I don't see anything wrong with people wanting to discuss the ride in memory. After all, it really (sniff) hurts sometimes for me (sniff,sniff) to talk about the ride (sniff sniff sniff). I remember a time...........

Oh screw it.

I am not good at trying to fool people.

Just trying to get your blood pumping Mr. Beast. You know I am kidding. =:^)

-Sean (who just added another post to the thread he thought he was done with)

I think perhaps the problem here is how to measure and quantify something. Jeff I agree with you 100% that it won't hurt the bottom line. But there is another "cost" involved in matters such as these. And it's one that is very difficult to measure or even realize it is diminished. Call it charm, call it atmosphere, or if you are Disney, call it "magic". Call it whatever you want, but understand there is more to a business then just it's cash flow. Not every business would have what I am talking about. But a business such as an amusement park? I can think of no other business that has this component more! And it has to be taken into account. Why? Because it impacts people's feelings about a place which later on can translate to "the bottom line" that Jeff is so fond of.

I think someone else said it best up above...what would Disneyland be like without Dumbo? Probably wouldn't effect the bottom line AT FIRST. But do too many of these sorts of "progress" improvements and what would you have? An empty shell of it's former self and probably not a nice place to visit.

And if you think charm has no bearing on people's habits and pocketbooks Jeff, then you would be mistaken. There's a reason that most people rather go to Disneyland or Knott's then Magic Mountain. And it isn't all customer service related. The parks with charm, do better. Just like restaurants with charm do better. People rather go to a beautiful beach then one next to a power plant etc.... the examples could go on and on. Atmosphere can make or break a place as much as location, capital, or any other factor you want to throw into the mix. And that's my point here. Why remove something that is clearly part of the atmosphere of the park and has a historical connection to the area? It doesn't seem like good business sense when you look at ALL the factors that go into things and not just one.

*** Edited 10/24/2004 1:25:44 AM UTC by Coasterbuf***

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Vortex said:
The ride is gone close the topic. *** Edited 10/23/2004 3:02:04 PM UTC by Vortex***

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You're not the boss o' me. :p