News: Kingda Ka
Think KK will convince me to visit SFGadv? More than likely.
-'Playa
NOTE: Severe fecal impaction may render the above words highly debatable.
Why Kingda Ka and not TTD?
My favorite MJ tune: "Billie Jean" which I have been listening to alot now. RIP MJ.
RideMan said:
Ah, but people WILL feel the difference. If the lap bars are the same as the ones on Storm Runner and the twist on the downhill side is the same as the one on Dragster, there will be a lot of sore necks before the train hits the 'bunny hop'.Intamin's new lap bar/shoulder bar design is the worst design decision for this sort of coaster since the original Flight of Fear trains went into service. The only good thing about it is that it looks like correcting it may be relatively simple...10 fasteners and a repositioned safety belt buckle would do the trick.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
I totally disagree that the new OTSRs are terrible. The OTSRs on Premier rides like FoF are totally different. The way to minimize head banging is to design the OTSRs so that the main contact point is at the waist. That's why B&M rides have very little head-banding. Storm Runner's OTSRs are a new design but similar to B&Ms in that the main contact point is the lapbar part. I experienced no headbanging at all on Storm Runner. I do agree, however, that B&R: The Chiller was TERRIBLE when it had OTSRs. That was quite possibly the worst head banging I've ever experienced.
Nitro Dave said:
I find it odd how two years ago, TTD was THE ride to ride in '03. Now, all of a sudden, it's going into SFGAdv and it's "not worth the trip"? I understand enthusiast excitement about Hydra, Tsunami, etc., but I really don't think SFGAdv put in this ride thinking, "Gee, how can we top Dorney?" They put this in to make an emphatic statement, and they did. And I firmly believe this WILL be the event ride of '05.
I totally agree. Back in 03, I don't remember ANYBODY looking at TTD and saying something like "Is THAT all it does ? Up and down ? That's not worth going to CP for !". Everybody was super psyched about it. Now that SFGAdv is getting the record breaker, we're hearing a lot of things like "CP did it first so it's not a big deal" or "SF is stupid to dump so much into one park". The second argument is a load of crap in my opinion. CF totally gives top priority to CP. Look at how long it took for Dorney Park to get even 3 decent coasters while CF was well into the double digits.
MrX said:
kip099 said:
Do they have to cram the OTSR's into you like they do the lap bars on TTD? If they don't, I would think it would be better with the OTSR's... more "airtime" room...That's a good point Kip. Maybe the airtime on this thing is going to be absolutely outrageous and lap bars would have actually prevented you from getting the true feeling they were going for. This way you can truly feel weightless and float quite a few inches out of your seat for the entire hill. Wow. *** Edited 9/29/2004 7:08:38 PM UTC by MrX***
I'm assuming that the OTSRs on this ride will be similar to Storm Runner's. I actually did have some space between my legs and the lap bar part of the restraint. So, I think there is great potential for good air-time on this one. I also have to say that SRs restraints are the most comfortable OTSRs that I've experienced.
It's not that CP did it first, it's just that it's been done.
For a ride that is essentially a one trick pony (as is TTD), many of us have already done the trick. Doing it 8mph faster and 36 feet higher isn't exactly worth the trip for most.
TTD, however, was totally unique when it debuted and the only way to experience that one trick was a visit to Sandusky.
That's the difference in enthusiasm as I see it.
*** Edited 10/1/2004 12:28:33 AM UTC by Lord Gonchar***
+Danny said:
Anyone know how much Kingda Ka and/or the entire Great Adventure expansion costs?+Danny
It's gotta be in the $30M range somewhere. TTD was $25M, but I don't know if that was considered a "prototype" for the Stratacoaster. If so, that could have made its price SLIGHTLY higher than Ka. The rest of the expansion has to be another few million $$.
Lord Gonchar said:
^^ RE: Two Posts upIt's not that CP did it first, it's just that it's been done.
*** Edited 10/1/2004 12:28:33 AM UTC by Lord Gonchar***
Yeah, but you can argue that even CP wasn't the first to do that type of ride. There was at least 1 other hydraulically lauched coaster (Xcelerator). It just didn't go 420 feet high. The top hat element wasn't original. Going over 100 MPH had already been done. The only really originally thing on TTD was the 270 degree spiral. Yet, so many people (including myself) were very excited to see this ride constructed.
Wise move on the part of SFI, if you ask me. SFMM was *never* going to have a market of THIS size since So Cal has SO much competition. If SFI was intent on building a world-record coaster, THIS is the right park for it....
Now, if only SF can get the word out to ALL of their parks that they're no longer supposed to throw feces at their guests...;)
Finally, I'll *guess-timate* that this entire expansion, with the kids' area, etc., will run closer to 35-40M in total. And while I'm sorry that ALL of your parks aren't getting "goodies", I think this (along with SFGAm's waterpark), is going to prove to be the more *profitable* avenue for expansion in lean times. Once the economy is rolling along again, and SF stock is up (and debt reduced), THEN they can start "sharing the wealth"......you can't do that when you don't HAVE the wealth to share....;)
As always, I appreciate well-reasoned arguments to the contrary...:)
I have, and let me tell you what happens on the trip down the tower. This is important, because unless they make Kingda Ka's tower a bit wider and the speed over the top a bit less, it's exactly what Kingda Ka is going to do.
The arc over the top of the tower is a more-or-less ballistic path. That is, if the track were not there, the train would follow approximately the same path over the top of the hill. That's a cool way to do it, because that means that your acceleration over the hill is freefall from the start of the curve (still on the uphill side) all the way over the top of the hill. If you are in the back of the train, then the train starts to accelerate early, which literally yanks the train out from under you as you go over the top of the hill.
When you start down the downhill side of the ride, then, you are not exactly firmly planted in the seat. I'm big enough that the lap bar and seat belt do their thing up here; a smaller rider would literally be floating at this point. Because the train is tipped into a nose-down position, gravity still isn't a factor. You aren't going to drop back down into the seat unless you pull yourself into the seat. At this point, your center of mass is sloshing about between the seat, the lap bar, and the seat side rails. Meanwhile, the train rolls clockwise, rotating around a point located *at or slightly above seat height*. This means that, owing to your own inertia, you naturally rotate around your CG, which puts you somewhat to the left of the seatback. Your upper body quite easily and quite naturally follows your lower body, but it is an odd experience, to say the least, to be that far outboard of the seat!
Now if you substitute the Storm Runner restraint for the Dragster lap bar, a couple of interesting things happen. The first thing that happens is that you're no longer pinned in by the lap bar. This means your position as you enter the spiral is less predictable, your upward momentum stopped not by the lap bar acting on your CG, but by the shoulder bar catching your shoulder. Then in the rotation, you get twisted in the seat. Your lower body is still constrained by the seat rails and the lap bar, and as before, your torso and upper body, not so retained, will tend to follow the lower body. The critical difference here is that while your torso and head are not constrained...the shoulder bar comes over both shoulders, and that means the bar grabs you by the neck and drags you around the curve!
This could be corrected by using a deeper seat-back mold, so that the torso is also constrained for the curve, but that causes additional difficulties because people happen to have arms. Arrow had this worked out for the earliest Corkscrew coasters, then when they figured out that they hadn't left space for arms and shoulders, they made the seats wider. The result was Drachen Fire, and...well, we know what happened with that one.
Like everyone else here, I haven't ridden Kingda Ka. But my prediction is that it's going to demonstrate once again why shoulder bars and coasters are a bad combination.
--Dave Althoff, Jr.
I also think that in lean times, SF should focus on spending at all of their parks, instead of just two or three. Once this coaster and new section of the park are added into the cost of the water park at GAm, that is almost 2/3 of the overall SF budget for next year. That remaining 1/3 will probably go to a coaster at SFMM. I sure hope that the spike in atendance that occurs at SFGAd makes up for the drops in attendance that will be happening at SFAW, SFFT, SFDL, SFSL, SFA and any other park that has not recieved a major coaster in more than 4 years!!
And BTW, superman was supposed to cause a huge spike in attendance at SFGAd, and what happened? Attendance didn't go up at all that year, it actually dropped!! I hope this coaster does better!! *** Edited 10/1/2004 3:25:30 AM UTC by SK610***
SK610, have you not seen the eleventy billion other posts here that have rather explicitly spelled out that SF penned this deal well before any of TTD's operational problems came about? This was not a spur of the moment decision, it was a choice that has been in the workings for a couple years now.
EDIT: Ahh, nevermind. You're a one-post newbie who just wanted to vent without thinking. You get a pass this time, despite the fact that everything in your post has been disproved handily over the past few weeks.
*** Edited 10/1/2004 3:55:26 AM UTC by Nitro Dave***
Lord Gonchar said:
For a ride that is essentially a one trick pony (as is TTD), many of us have already done the trick. Doing it 8mph faster and 36 feet higher isn't exactly worth the trip for most.
YES, exactly. This isnt a fanboy thing.
Will these new strata coasters are becoming the new boomerang? :)
Kris Wempa said:
Yeah, but you can argue that even CP wasn't the first to do that type of ride. There was at least 1 other hydraulically lauched coaster (Xcelerator). It just didn't go 420 feet high. The top hat element wasn't original. Going over 100 MPH had already been done. The only really originally thing on TTD was the 270 degree spiral. Yet, so many people (including myself) were very excited to see this ride constructed.
I expected that arguement.
Because of the sheer size and record breaking status of TTD. TTD is twice the size of Xcelerator and shattered world records.
"So, Gonch, doesn't this shatter records too?"
Yes, but it's still just TTD's same trick repackaged. The only way to get enthusiasts to react would have been to break a new barrier - I know people were getting a hard time for saying similar things, but...
If this had hit the 500 mark, it would be a bigger deal. If you're doing the same trick, you have to take it to a new level.
Alternatively, they could've topped 420 with almost anything but that one trick coaster and gotten the same huge reaction.
The bottom line is that even though this will be the new record holder, it's not that much of a departure for what exists.
With all of that said, I don't discount this ride at all. It's a great addition and will get lots of 'GP' attention. Us enthusiasts are just a little more jaded - we saw this 2 years ago and it was fun. The second time around it loses a bit of the excitement.
Now, Storm Runner Multi-looper types? I could see that. If SFMM is looking for a replacement for Viper(which I hear they are), that's where I would look.
These launched, record breaking one trick ponies may get the parks they're in some initial attention, but people eventually feel cheated by the short experience. In turn, it feels like the park is cheating just to get in the record books.
As cool as it feels to have your face streched out by crazy speeds, nothing can replace a lift hill, and the feeling that a park actaully put some thought into a layout.
As cool as it feels to have your face streched out by crazy speeds, nothing can replace a lift hill...
Well, now we're getting into personal preference, but I agree.
Launches do very little for me. I like my terror more subtle. I enjoy the tension of slowly climbing a lift hill. It's about the threat.
The overall experience of having someone tell you they're going to punch you in the face, then doing so is much more terrifying than a sucker punch. :)
I know it's a capacity issue, but MF would be so much more effective if you slowly climbed up that lift hill.
A lot of people like that "Wham Bam" satisfaction, but I prefer the foreplay ;)
*** Edited 10/1/2004 5:07:23 AM UTC by Lord Gonchar***
Coaster foreplay... only on CoasterBuzz.
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