New RCT3 SOAKED Information:

Gonch must have forgotten the 4 page letter I wrote and posted on those forums. You 2 so were not the only buzzers complaining over there ;).

Coasterbuf, this is what I can not understand for the life of me:

Solace now sucks because Knott's Berry Farm Took away all the important stuff that you liked from Solace, replaced it with a bunch of Fluff that looks pretty, but didn't do anything for you, and you can't understand why people would want to go back to Solace and can't understand how they enjoy it now that the heart and soul has been taken out of the event...

But you don't understand how in the world people aren't willing to give Soaked! a chance, even though Atari took out the heart and soul of the game and gave us Fluff that looks pretty.

Hmmm...

'buf, I was under the impression that I was buying a complete game when I bought RCT3. Other than that, what Gonch and Clint said. I'm sure I'd love it if I was 12 years old.

Anyhoo, I thought you were done with this thread?

-Jimvy!

I was when I said let's agree to disagree. But as you can see, even with the post right above yours , people just don't seem to want to leave it there. Instead, post after post has continued to flame me and even go so far as to say I'm on Atari's payroll. I'm certainly not going to let untrue accusations like those stand without a comment.

As for your post Tekno..

A case of obviously seeing things differently. Please, tell me what "pretty fluff" Knott's has replaced things with? The comparisons just don't match up. Rct3 while losing some things, has had numerous things added to it and continues to have so. While Knott's simply dropped most of what made it's event unique.

I think people tend to get overly dramatic here when describing RCT as having it's heart and soul ripped out with #3. I don't see it that way at all. I see it as a horribly flawed intitial release that never should have gone out the door that way, but over time with the patches has become fun (for me) to play again. And I'm looking forward to the additions that Soaked will add.

Unfortunately, I don't think there will be any additions to Solace. And I could easily turn your arugument around and say fine, if you miss all those things supposedly missing in RCT3, then why don't you bemoan any of the stuff cut from Solace? It's all just a matter of point of view.

Want to know the really ironic thing? The first thing I am going to do with the Soaked expansion is work on my recreation of....Knott's. LOL

As I have stated previously, I paid my £35 to atari in return for a working product which isn't what atari delivered.

Why, having been scammed like that should I a: give atari the benefit of the doubt over any add ons improving an incredibly flawed piece of software and b: have to wait and/or pay once more for any improvements to the game?

If I want to pay for something in instalments I'll buy a car or a new apartment. When I buy a piece of software I expect to get what I paid for. If you can't understand the point I am making then you really do have the blinkers on fella.

-Jimvy! the rose tinted specs fell off a couple of days after installing the game.

And I agree with you 100%. If you feel that you have a defective product you should be able to return it just like you can any other product.It bugs me that the software industry is different and consumers are not protected like they are with other goods and services. Of course the problem here is that in this case, "defective" is a relative term. Some think it still is, while others do not. You think it's incredibly flawed. I on the other hand (after patching) do not. And can find lots of enjoyment. Is it perfect? No. No game is. It does still have some flaws. But unless the game out and out does not run on your system, (which running the demo would have told you) then I find it hard to believe that you can't find at least a little enjoyment. It's rollercoasters for crying out loud! :)

I suppose you could always take your issue up with Atari, a lawyer, or just stop buying anything from Atari/Frontier. It sounds like you are doing the latter which is fine. To each's own.

I don't think its the Atari Products its teh fact they released a flawed up peice of sh*t, which is more than what a game should have. I mean its all pretty pretty, but when it comes down to it , It still runs like crap! I own other Atari gamesm that don't do that, but this is the major dissapointment!

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Coasterbuf said:
Is it perfect? No. No game is.

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Have you ever played Beyond Good and Evil? It's the best game *no one* has played...

lata, jeremy

I played RCT 3 for the first time this past weekend, and I don't see what the big problem is. I thought it was a good game, not great but good. I didn't have any major issues while playing. I am planning on picking it up and trying it on my own machine, as I was playing on my friends computer. I shouldn't have any issues though, as my machine is a lot faster than his.

Needless to say, I'll be picking up the expansion pack. I know the game isn't perfect, but it's definately not a piece of crap either. It has it's flaws as all games do. Heck, even the bad mofo of a game God of War has some flaws in it, and that game was KILLER. Hopefully the expansion pack has some tweaks in it that will address some of the problems people seem to be facing.

Justin

If you played RCT or RCT2, you would see why we complain, theres a differance between just plain fun, no problems, and pretty and malfunctional. Its very obvious, none the less, I still think its great, I just not happy with how it performs.

I'm sure Justin has played at least one of those. And I have played both as well. And even complained myself when it was first released as it was clearly rushed. But while not solving everything certainly, the two patches that were released afterwards solved my major issues. So I think that's why some are happy and some are still not. It's all a matter of what is important to you and what is not.

That being said, I can find issues with all three that I wish were different. As I am sure we all could. I do agree with some here that Frontier tried to make it too SIMS like. But I think Frontier is listening a HELL of a lot more then Chris Sawyer ever did. And more then Frontier themselves did previously. (Actually lately they have been interacting more then I have seen ANY game house do with their user base.) So I think things are moving in the right direction.

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But I think Frontier is listening a HELL of a lot more then Chris Sawyer ever did. And more then Frontier themselves did previously.

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Who'd win in a fight, Chris Sawyer or God?

Trick question. Chris Sawyer is God!

:) - Yes, I've used that joke referring to Schwarzkopf as well. (and I lifted it from that stupid Airheads movie on top of that - I rock!)

Seriously, Sawyer knew what the game was meant to be. He had a vision and ran with it, damn them all. Frontier's problem is exactly what you consider an asset - they listen to their users too much.

Kind of a 'too many cooks in the kitchen" sort of thing.

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It's all a matter of what is important to you and what is not.

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I couldn't agree more.

I must agree as well, some of RCT and RCT2's characteristics made the game what it is, even thought they wern't perfect. Frontier should concentrate on whats important, such as system impvrovement, instead of kids peeing at 10 fps! They are listening for wants not needs.

I am an avid RCT player, and have been since the first game's release. I still play RCT 2 but not the first since it doesn't seem to be run properly on my new system. I had issues with the creating buildings in RCT 2 at first, but have grown to like the freeform design aspect quite a bit. That said, I'm impressed with a lot of aspects of RCT3, and disappointed in some as well. There are definately some issues I have with the performance on my computer (damn graphics card) but I really enjoy most of the changes made to the gameplay. Once I get the performance issue resolved with a better graphics card (at least I hope) it should be less of a headache.

I do agree with Greg though, that Frontier seems to be listening to their fanbase a lot more than before. However, Gonch makes a good point about having too many chefs in the kitchen. Chris Sawyer was good about doing what he felt was right for his game, damn everyone else. However, with any subsequent sequel you have find ways to appeal to a broader fanbase and you cannot just rehash more of the same. That would kill the franchise and then where would we be?

Justin

Sawyer was a real game designer (and code monkey) that understood design. He didn't bow into every little request and he shouldn't have. Creating a balanced game is not something many designers do well, but he very nearly nailed it. I suspect he's rather impotent in the third game because I doubt he would have ever allowed it to ship as the mess that it was.

yes, that he was, I liked that more. Now, that brings something to mind that I was thinking, How could of Chris Sawyer allow the game to pass frontier and atari, with the bugs it had? I wonder If he even had a chance for input on whats wrong, fixes, bugs. I wish we could know what Chris Sawyer thinks of it all! Personally I think they should have concentrated on needs, and Chris Sawyers opinions more!

Answer: Dollars. Or pounds. Whatever they pay him in.

Well yes. LOL. I DO consider listening to your customers to be an asset not a bad thing. But I can see the point of too many cooks spoiling the broth as well. But I do think Frontier is on the right track with the improvments in Soaked. (Forget the pee in the pool crap, there is a lot of useful stuff in there..way more then fluff)

Chris Sawyer did something amazing. He took Bullfrog's theme park game and made it better and more importantly brought it to the masses. But he reached the limits of his ability or what he wanted to do. Clearly he is not a 3D programmer. You can tell that by even his most recent work. And he likes to do most everything himself, which while commendable, is just not possible anymore with the complexity of game software. Those days are over.

So there were really only several routes that could be taken. Do nothing and leave RCT2 as the last RCT game. Make another 2d based one which wouldn't have leant much new to the franschise. Or move it to 3d with all the growing pains and teething problems that such a move would entail. I'm happy that Frontier opted for the later, and I think over time as expansions are released and things are improved that most of you will feel the same way, even if you don't right now.

If it hasn't been mentioned yet, here are screenshots from Friday, April 28.

~josh